The Day After - What we can expect from Dave Nonis

[johnunit]

Nonis is just sad because he will have to do work.

 

[BillyD]

The bolded is classic overanalysis. Dave Nonis isn't going to be influenced by the board when he makes hockey related decisions. Does he have to answer to the board? Sure, so did Burke, and JFJ and Quinn before him. But this isn't going to be like when JFJ was here and he was denied the request to blow up the team and rebuild.

Nonis did admit that while there is still pressure to make the playoffs, the board at MLSE would not be upset with another non-playoff finish so long as the team is building towards improvement.

He also specifically mentioned that he had absolutely no interest in trading young impact players and prospects for NHL veterans. He said the only way he would entertain trading the young players they have put in place (mentioned Gardiner and Rielly specifically) is if it was in return for other young players.

Also just as a note: Nonis did NOT receive a 3 year contract. He has multiple years (believed to be 3) existing on his current deal as Director of Hockey Ops. They are simply reworking that contract to accomodate the position change.

correct

sadly, at least 2/3 of the people posting here have no idea what that means

 

[Patty Lee]

[/U][/I][/B]

correct

sadly, at least 2/3 of the people posting here have no idea what that means

lol. what are you basing this BS statement on? you think 2/3 of the people on here can't read?

are you hinting you need it explained?

 

[BillyD]

lol. what are you basing this BS statement on? you think 2/3 of the people on here can't read?

are you hinting you need it explained?

ha, no im part of the 33 per cent

i'm just saying anyone that watched that interview would know nonis did not confirm maclean's rumour yet most who commented here think he did

 

[TRP]

The bolded is classic overanalysis. Dave Nonis isn't going to be influenced by the board when he makes hockey related decisions. Does he have to answer to the board? Sure, so did Burke, and JFJ and Quinn before him. But this isn't going to be like when JFJ was here and he was denied the request to blow up the team and rebuild.

Nonis did admit that while there is still pressure to make the playoffs, the board at MLSE would not be upset with another non-playoff finish so long as the team is building towards improvement.

He also specifically mentioned that he had absolutely no interest in trading young impact players and prospects for NHL veterans. He said the only way he would entertain trading the young players they have put in place (mentioned Gardiner and Rielly specifically) is if it was in return for other young players.

Also just as a note: Nonis did NOT receive a 3 year contract. He has multiple years (believed to be 3) existing on his current deal as Director of Hockey Ops. They are simply reworking that contract to accomodate the position change.

I most definitely agree with you. Like I said, I hope that using 'authority' over 'autonomy' was not deliberate. I am not mongering to say that it was, which spells out how Nonis' job description is structured. I am hoping more for the sake of not wanting history to repeat itself where Nonis becomes a whipping boy like JFJ after having meddling bosses that over-rule a GMs hockey decisions. I am erring on side of optimism for all parties but it was that single word that really caught my attention coming from someone seemingly intelligent, being Anselmi.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

It's not impossible that he could have learned from his previous experiences and do a better job this time around. Burke has credited Nonis for basically doing the work on the best trades the Leafs have made with the tandem in office. I would hpe that's an indication that Nonis has used his prevoius experience and additional time working behind Burke as a way to better himself in the position and maybe is a bit older and wiser now than before. Only time will tell but I don't think Nonis will have a very long leash with ownership.

For example: Nonis was instrumental in landing Garnet Exelby & Mike Komisarek as per Burke's request... we are in GREAT hands now!? Nonis is Burke's whipping boy. He does whatever Burke tells him to do. Burke starts the dialogue, works out the gist of the deals and then brings Nonis for all the details/grunt work-paper work.

Nonis stinks. Time will show you... I know Leaf fans have high hopes everytime someone new steps in but I'm telling you - don't get your hopes up with Nonis...

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

I hate to use this as an excuse but Nonis was fairly inexperienced when he took over in Vancouver.

He's had quite a few years to gain additional experience.

Time will tell how better, or worst, he got. Considering the impact he's had on a few trades and signings Burke credited him for, I think it could be a positive move.

Until the Luongo trade goes through..and you realize Nonis is just a puppet to the BOG.... Nonis is the classic "fall" guy....

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

The main difference I see is Nonis understands the importance of a top goalie much more than Burke.

Everyone said for years the Canucks were a goalie away from being good in the Cloutier years, but Burke wouldnt get that last piece to put them over the top.

Nonis comes in, trades for Luongo and drafts a top goalie in the first round.

I would expect to see something very similar.

Whether its dealing for Luongo, who knows, maybe a top young goalie like Bernier could be on his radar.

How do you explain Nonis' Canucks missing the playoffs in 2008 with Lu as the tender, the twins, Naslund, etc... ?! They ran him out of town because Nonis was unable to bring in the right pieces. If you question any of Burke's moves (i.e. Komisarek, Connolly) .. Nonis will do the same type of odd moves, but even worse players (see: Isbister, Ritchie signings.. trading Cooke for Pettinger... bad bad bad moves).

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

The common knowledge, longstanding, tried and tested successful team building approach of building from the goalie out, through strong defense and strength down the middle through your centers is as old as time itself, and what I expect from Nonis.

Inexplicably and incomprehensibly (as to what he could possibly have been thinking) our former experienced GM thought successful team building was accomplished by building from the Wings In (Kessel, JVR, Lupul, MacArthur) with weak centers, shaky defense and soft goaltending as his path taken, with a soft, small, easily intimidated team to boot.. All of which rightfully produced expected disastrous, bottom of the league standing end results for a very poor ill-conceived plan, you might expect from a greenhorn GM but not a experienced one.

Not only was the plan backasswards in approach to the norm, but the saddest part was that the best assets of top picks and prospects where used to go down this fatal road, leaving us where we are today settled near the bottom of the NHL.

Yesterday the TSN panel (MacKenzie or Dreger) confirmed that Nonis didn't support Burke fully on the Kessel trade, and wanted to take the slower patient approach at the time it occurred. So Nonis hopefully focuses his attention where its needed in #1 G and #1 C and building up the defense to provide a more successful on ice winning product.

Mess... I am on board with 95% of your sentiments/posts. That said, do you really believe Nonis will have the same autonomy as Burke? The BOG will be all over Nonis and pressure him to make moves the way they did with JFJ.. Nonis has no back-bone like the belligerent Burke.... and will crumble under the pressure. Thus, leaving Nonis as the fall guy for all the bad moves he's about to make....

watch....

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

go look at the Ballard years. even worse for coaches back then

For whatever reason... I still loved John Brophy from that era. The guy was insane.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

Kyper says he believes Dave Nonis is MLSE whipping boy.

He is. Just like he was Aquillini's whipping boy in Vancouver. The fall guy. I know I mentioned this already..but just wait and see. Kyper is spot on.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

Kyper hasn't gotten anything right since he was Ryan Vandenbussche's whipping boy.

are you kidding me? Kyper broke all the trade rumors on the deadline the last couple of years.... his sources are great. What are you basing your comment off of?

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

Ya but Kyper says a lot of things, mostly his opinions and not based on fact.

Based on Nonis' previous tenure in Vancouver (where he was a whipping boy)... and all the other jobs he has had (Burke's best boy/whipping boy) there is no doubt that this trend will continue. Kyper is spot on.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

Unless Leafs significantly improve by end of July (in standings and roster), Nonis can join Burke for all I care.

Enough of mediocracy, and Nonis has been part of the failing front office. So, as I said earlier, clock doesn't reset on him.

amen.

 

[Patty Lee]

someone please show Vaive how to quote multiple posts....

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

I'm happy to hear that he's not willing to trade young players unless it's for another young player of value to the team. I guess I can rest easy that if Luongo is coming, Gardiner isn't going the other way. I don't think Luongo is coming though.

Seems like he has the same philosophies as Burke but the difference is obviously in the style in which they'll go about trying to get the job done. If there's one thing we know from Nonis' resume is that he's a patient guy. He's acknowledged that there are building blocks in place so he's going to have to get creative to find ways to address the team needs without blowing up everything and starting from scratch. At this point, I don't think either side wants to do that.

What resume are you looking at? Talk to Vancouver fans. I lived through 3 years of Nonis....he was not patient. He made really bad trades and FA signings and missed the playoffs with Lu/Twins/Naslund et al. When he did make the playoffs...the team was hanging on by a thread.... What Nonis are you talking about?

 

[BillyD]

vaive is out of control

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

vaive is out of control

apologies.... just passionate about the Leafs. I know full well what we are in for with Nonis as the boss... I hate when fellow Leaf fans have blind hope/not all the facts on the guy.

I will leave with this sentiment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxTk_O9Q-44

I digress.

 

[Keeping it Blue]

What resume are you looking at? Talk to Vancouver fans. I lived through 3 years of Nonis....he was not patient. He made really bad trades and FA signings and missed the playoffs with Lu/Twins/Naslund et al. When he did make the playoffs...the team was hanging on by a thread.... What Nonis are you talking about?

The Nonis to stood to his guns in not trading Kesler and Edler. The one who was living through a transition period with a declining WCE and an improving Sedin Twins.

Yes, there have been some pushes at the deadline with lower valued draft picks to get aging vets.

I know this is shocking, but all GMs will have signings and trades not work out for the best. Nonis is a smart hockey man and not someone's hand puppet - if he was, he would have traded away his younger players as ownership told him and not be fired.

Heaven forbid, we miss the playoffs and win a couple of president trophies.


What about the that video are we supposed to take away:

"Wrong on so many levels"

"Not mortgage the future"

"More that just the record"

"Some sort of conflict"

"Not given enough time"

Aren't those all reasonable things that we can agree with. Especially with hindsight?

 

[SprDaVE]

Until the Luongo trade goes through..and you realize Nonis is just a puppet to the BOG.... Nonis is the classic "fall" guy....

You have nothing to support he is a puppet but if you wish to think that he is, it's your right to do so.

Perhaps giving him a bit of slack instead of going on an absolute posting rampage about things you think are merely speculating would be wise.

He hasn't been on the job 24 hours and yet somehow you think he's a puppet based on whatever theories your friend said to you while playing lego's.

Relax. Try to be a bit more objective in your thoughts and try to look at both sides of the coin. There are some positives just as much as negatives as to what has happened in the last 24 hours.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

What resume are you looking at? Talk to Vancouver fans. I lived through 3 years of Nonis....he was not patient. He made really bad trades and FA signings and missed the playoffs with Lu/Twins/Naslund et al. When he did make the playoffs...the team was hanging on by a thread.... What Nonis are you talking about?

Vancouver can thank Nonis and Burke for getting them to a game 7 cup win, 2 years ago. Real bad job they did.

 

[Tak7]

Had Nonis been GM of the Leafs instead of Burke the last 4 years, we might have had a very different looking team.

I laugh at suggestions that Burke has been fired and replaced by Burke 2.0.

They aren't the same. Their philosophy on how a team should be built might be similar (I'd argue that even that is different). But they go about things in very different ways.

Whether you love or hate Burke, you have to acknowledge that it was important to him to have good, smart people around him to act as a sounding board. He had a great working relationship with Nonis in Vancouver, and that continued in Toronto.

If Nonis was nothing more than a "yes-man" for Burke, would he really have kept him around? Absolutely not.

I think we can expect to see patience from Nonis. If anyone listened to his HC at Noon interview today, there didn't sound like there was much urgency on his part to do anything drastic on the team.

There was no "I have to make the playoffs this year"

There was no "we are actively looking to trade or be active"

It was just talk about showing the owners that we are improving and moving in the right direction.

That to me translates into two things:

a) Unless you are getting Luongo gift wrapped, don't make the deal

b) If you don't make the playoffs, but lots of the young kids get important playing time and progress, and the end result is a good pick in a high draft, then we are OK with that.

 

[darrylsittler27]

"We are not going to tear apart our reserve lists."

We can put away the Gillis fantasy trades now.There will be no Kadri and Gardiner for Luongo trades.Gillis is hooped now.Back to reality....

 

[Passthedonuts]

I'm a Canucks fan having lived in Toronto for 3 years. It's interesting watching the Canucks era from the late 90's early 2000's repeat itself in my new town.

Nonis entered the GM post of the Canucks under very similar circumstances as he has with the Leafs. Burke had clashed with former Orca Bay (former owners of the Canucks) VP Stan McCammon - and they didn't hesitate to show him the door once the team's on ice results had stagnated. In both cases, Nonis took over the job entering a season following a lock out.

It was different with the Canucks as Nonis took over a contending team and expectations were high. The team however lacked a true #1 centre (Sedin and Kesler were not fully developed yet) and a true #1 goalie. Sound familiar?

This team disappointed however and missed the playoffs - and Nonis was aggressive the following off season turning over 1/3 of the roster - and pulling off the miraculous Luongo trade. He also hired Vigneault and brought in Willie Mitchell - all very positive moves.

The next season, this team didn't score many goals but they won the division.

The next season Nonis did virtually nothing and I believe this was his downfall. He did not execute a trade for Brad Richards, and the team missed the playoffs which ultimately cost him his job.

The Good:

- Incredibly patient and has a very methodical approach to building a team. Whether this will bode well with MLSE remains to be seen...
- No ego. Maintains good relations with other teams - and seems to use this to his advantage and can pull off miraculous trades out of nowhere (Luongo and Phaneuf).
- He was very young at the time he was Canucks GM. I'm sure he's learned alot in the past 9 years.
- The 2004 draft. Schneider, Edler and Hansen in one draft and didn't draft higher than 26th. Incredible.
- Good at uncovering undrafted talent. Identified guys like Burrows and Rypien.

The Bad:

- His drafting appeared to get progressively worse. After 2004 it all went downhill, 2007 was terrible.
- His quiet personality may not bode well in this media market. To me he has always seemed more effective when he is behind the scenes, and can quietly go about his business. That's why him and Burke have always been a good duo.
- Seemed afraid to take risks. Never made any bold moves after his first year.
- Questionable depth signings. Brad Isbister, Byron Ritchie, Marc Chouinard were terrible bottom 6 guys. They were low risk signings, but he could have been much better here.

All that said, I imagine he has progressed since that time - and I would rank him to be a very good GM. His approach is pretty opposite of Brian Burke. I would describe him as a good team builder and less of a closer.

I've always thought a team would be in a great shape if they hired Burke/Nonis in the reverse order. Bringing in a guy like Nonis to lay the groundwork and stockpile young players - and then bring in Burke to bring the team across the finish line.

In Vancouver, Nonis had to carry on a winning tradition (even though the team had serious flaws) and in Toronto he is expected to put a winner on the ice very quickly. I'm not sure either of these scenarios are an ideal fit for his management style. If I was a club looking to execute a 3-5 year rebuild I would hire him in an instant - but unless he proves me wrong I don't see him being a fit for the Leafs based on where they're currently at.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It will be exactly the same with less bluster.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's removed by the end of the Year. Gretzky is brought in as the next GM.

no chance he has a 5 year deal now