The Day After - What we can expect from Dave Nonis

[ACC1224]

no chance he has a 5 year deal now

He does? when did this happen?

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

From a Nucks fan perspective Nonis was completely fine except for 2 things:

1. He was awful at assessing 3rd/4th line talent
2. He had a couple of the worst drafts i've ever seen

Besides that he was a fine GM and was well respected. I wouldn't worry about current prospect, he did fine with the Nucks current prospects when he came in and put good people in good positions.

 

[topched]

I think we all need to take a deep breath regarding this move.

For those of us who were okay with the job Burke had done (which i would estimate is a slight majority) the Silver Lining is that Nonis likes to build a team with a similar playing style as Burke. For that reason Nonis is good because of continuation.

The difference will be the method in building that. I see Nonis getting this season and next offseason to make a substantail improvement to the roster and its direction. He will be judged based on the '13/14' season's results.

He's going to have the opportunity to possibly accumulate draft picks, and also take advantage of the situation Burke left behind, with lots of expiring contracts and the ability to put his own spin on this team.

The pressure to produce results this season on Toronto's GM is aleviated slightly. Sure that is the goal, but it is no longer a necessity like it was when Burke was here. Nonis will not be influenced into a job-saving move... at least not during this season and next. Given the current state of this team I'd say thats plus.

 

[SprDaVE]

He didn't pull of the Richards trade, but that was probably the best non-move of the Canucks in the last decade.

 

[birddog*]

From a Nucks fan perspective Nonis was completely fine except for 2 things:

1. He was awful at assessing 3rd/4th line talent
2. He had a couple of the worst drafts i've ever seen

Besides that he was a fine GM and was well respected. I wouldn't worry about current prospect, he did fine with the Nucks current prospects when he came in and put good people in good positions.

Arguably had one bad draft. Bourdon was a tragedy but Raymond still came out of that draft.

Grabner isn't a bad player -- Gillis dumped him prematurely.

Scnieder, Edler, Hanson was a great draft.

Signing Burrows and Mitchell was also very good. Gillis dropped the ball on Mitchell.

His trading record was ok, no real losses and a nice addition from a bad situation in Bertuzzi. He also did well in the Cloutier deal -- since Clouthier always was terrible.

One thing that is often over-looked and needs to be addressed is that he kept young top players like Sedins, Kesler (he matched), etc.

Overall Burke and Nonis built the Nucks that went to the finals. Gillis added very little.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm a Canucks fan having lived in Toronto for 3 years. It's interesting watching the Canucks era from the late 90's early 2000's repeat itself in my new town.

Nonis entered the GM post of the Canucks under very similar circumstances as he has with the Leafs. Burke had clashed with former Orca Bay (former owners of the Canucks) VP Stan McCammon - and they didn't hesitate to show him the door once the team's on ice results had stagnated. In both cases, Nonis took over the job entering a season following a lock out.

It was different with the Canucks as Nonis took over a contending team and expectations were high. The team however lacked a true #1 centre (Sedin and Kesler were not fully developed yet) and a true #1 goalie. Sound familiar?

This team disappointed however and missed the playoffs - and Nonis was aggressive the following off season turning over 1/3 of the roster - and pulling off the miraculous Luongo trade. He also hired Vigneault and brought in Willie Mitchell - all very positive moves.

The next season, this team didn't score many goals but they won the division.

The next season Nonis did virtually nothing and I believe this was his downfall. He did not execute a trade for Brad Richards, and the team missed the playoffs which ultimately cost him his job.

The Good:

- Incredibly patient and has a very methodical approach to building a team. Whether this will bode well with MLSE remains to be seen...
- No ego. Maintains good relations with other teams - and seems to use this to his advantage and can pull off miraculous trades out of nowhere (Luongo and Phaneuf).
- He was very young at the time he was Canucks GM. I'm sure he's learned alot in the past 9 years.
- The 2004 draft. Schneider, Edler and Hansen in one draft and didn't draft higher than 26th. Incredible.
- Good at uncovering undrafted talent. Identified guys like Burrows and Rypien.

The Bad:

- His drafting appeared to get progressively worse. After 2004 it all went downhill, 2007 was terrible.
- His quiet personality may not bode well in this media market. To me he has always seemed more effective when he is behind the scenes, and can quietly go about his business. That's why him and Burke have always been a good duo.
- Seemed afraid to take risks. Never made any bold moves after his first year.
- Questionable depth signings. Brad Isbister, Byron Ritchie, Marc Chouinard were terrible bottom 6 guys. They were low risk signings, but he could have been much better here.

All that said, I imagine he has progressed since that time - and I would rank him to be a very good GM. His approach is pretty opposite of Brian Burke. I would describe him as a good team builder and less of a closer.

I've always thought a team would be in a great shape if they hired Burke/Nonis in the reverse order. Bringing in a guy like Nonis to lay the groundwork and stockpile young players - and then bring in Burke to bring the team across the finish line.

In Vancouver, Nonis had to carry on a winning tradition (even though the team had serious flaws) and in Toronto he is expected to put a winner on the ice very quickly. I'm not sure either of these scenarios are an ideal fit for his management style. If I was a club looking to execute a 3-5 year rebuild I would hire him in an instant - but unless he proves me wrong I don't see him being a fit for the Leafs based on where they're currently at.

wouldn't the fact he didn't pull off the richards deal be a good thing? since IIRC at the time price was edler, schinder kesler aka current #1 D #1 Goalie, #2 center.

As for him being the right fit here I think he can do it he has some solid peices in place in Kessel Lupul JVR Phaneuf, Gradiner, Liles Kuliemin and Grabvoski. The base is there IMO now he needs to fill the gaps and if he can bring luongo to toronto that will go a LONG way.

 

[topched]

wouldn't the fact he didn't pull off the richards deal be a good thing? since IIRC at the time price was edler, schinder kesler aka current #1 D #1 Goalie, #2 center.

As for him being the right fit here I think he can do it he has some solid peices in place in Kessel Lupul JVR Phaneuf, Gradiner, Liles Kuliemin and Grabvoski. The base is there IMO now he needs to fill the gaps and if he can bring luongo to toronto that will go a LONG way.

I think an effective method for Nonis this season, or even as soon as when the CBA is ratified is to rid this team of the talent that he's identified as not moving forward.

MacArthur, Bozak and Connolly can both be valuable pieces to other teams... even if its at a lower cost. I don't mind getting middle round picks for these guys as it will allow Carlyle to "play the kids". Its pretty much make or break for players like Kadri, Ashton and even an older guy like Kostka. Give Carlyle a reason to put them in the lineup, and let them play. Teach them defense, mould them. If it doesn't work out then you for sure know what holes you have.

Free up cap space early, increase your opportunity for potentially landing a goalie at or around the deadline... once you've been able to evaluate Reimer as a starter in the first 25-30 gams.

Nonis does have alot of options in his arsenal as a way to improve the roster, or at least prepare it for improvement going forward. Hopefully with his appointment MLSE will allow him the slack to do so.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He does? when did this happen?

doug maclean mentioned it 3 extension added to what he had left

 

[ACC1224]

doug maclean mentioned it 3 extension added to what he had left

I doubt it.

 

[topched]

doug maclean mentioned it 3 extension added to what he had left

Incorrect. Nonis received an extension to be a Director of Hockey Ops within the last year. Believed that he has 3 years left on that deal, and it is just being reworked to accomodate the promotion.

 

[Rare Jewel]

He didn't pull of the Richards trade, but that was probably the best non-move of the Canucks in the last decade.

The alleged non deals with us for Mats would fall in there as well.

Kesler, Edler, Schneider, 1st's


Those were names being thrown around(not all in one deal).

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The more I hear Nonis speak to the media, the more I like this move. He's making me feel better about his appointment. Like the fact he says he is not mortaging the future for stop gap measures or he will make moves to save his job. TSN 1050 interview was enlightening.

 

[Sergei Berezin]

The more I hear Nonis speak to the media, the more I like this move. He's making me feel better about his appointment. Like the fact he says he is not mortaging the future for stop gap measures or he will make moves to save his job. TSN 1050 interview was enlightening.

No one comes out says they're mortgaging the future... they just do it.



I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Hanta Yo]

I would have liked to see what Burke could have done in the upcoming offseason in regards to UFAs, with the inability for those long term cap circumventing contracts to be signed, would have allowed Burke to throw his hat into a lot of more UFA signings.

 

[leugangen]

I wonder if Nonis will consider moving Kessel. Close the chapter on that whole thing. The package coming back would be great.

Not saying he should, just wonder if he will.

 

[Woodman19]

I wonder if Nonis will consider moving Kessel. Close the chapter on that whole thing. The package coming back would be great.

Not saying he should, just wonder if he will.

Whats the point, you are not going to get back close to what you gave up and failure to do so is just opening up another can of worms for everyone to criticise for the next 5 years. Can't undo mistakes of the past so you might as well work around it.

 

[Passthedonuts]

wouldn't the fact he didn't pull off the richards deal be a good thing? since IIRC at the time price was edler, schinder kesler aka current #1 D #1 Goalie, #2 center.

Yes, he did do the right thing. But at the time it appeared not making that move (which would have likely secured the Canucks a spot in the playoffs) cost him his job.

In hindsight, it appears that Canucks owner Aquilini had identified Gillis as a successor and was looking for an opportunity to remove Nonis.

 

[ForzaItalia]

Nonis, on the other hand, hits for average. Lots of singles, doubles that have small,
Positive impacts on the club, but rarely a big home run style deal(Luongo was his only one)

Ichiro!

 

[HavlatMach9]

I like how just before the firing, the Leafs were filling up with prospects, had some solid pieces, looking to acquire a #1 goalie, had a strong start last season, Burke having autonomy. GMs get and need more than 5 years to see some progress sometimes.

Then suddenly he gets fired and it's suspicious that the ownership is meddling in some way. I thought it was bad to go style over substance, but all I heard was style yesterday.

 

[member 147413]

Everyone knows Burke and Nonis built Vancouver's team right now... It's quite easy to see, that being said, I don't have any faith in any GM because of who the owners are.

 

[Keeping it Blue]

I like how just before the firing, the Leafs were filling up with prospects, had some solid pieces, looking to acquire a #1 goalie, had a strong start last season, Burke having autonomy. GMs get and need more than 5 years to see some progress sometimes.

Then suddenly he gets fired and it's suspicious that the ownership is meddling in some way. I thought it was bad to go style over substance, but all I heard was style yesterday.

Wait, what are you trying to say?

You don't believe that the BoG fired Burke because of Luongo? Or that you don't believe that Nonis is being controlled by the BoG? Or something else?

Sorry.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No one comes out says they're mortgaging the future... they just do it.



I'll believe it when I see it.

I just believe Nonis, escpeicially hearing his reasoning. I don't think by his history or experience he will act based on making the playoffs by mortaging the future.

If anything if Nonis is fired, preceded by Burke one day, Mike Gillis will probably be our GM in 2-3 years and we may be a Cup contender too as Vancouver is now.

I joke, but I am really being serious if Nonis does not succomb to Owner pressure; I think he would rather go down than to compromise his principles, as he did in Vancouver.

 

[p.l.f.]

will leafs make big trade(s) this weekend ?

 

[Stats01]

From a Nucks fan perspective Nonis was completely fine except for 2 things:

1. He was awful at assessing 3rd/4th line talent
2. He had a couple of the worst drafts i've ever seen

Besides that he was a fine GM and was well respected. I wouldn't worry about current prospect, he did fine with the Nucks current prospects when he came in and put good people in good positions.

Drafting is more on the scouts than the GM.

 

[Stats01]

will leafs make big trade(s) this weekend ?

I would've said definitely yes a week ago, today I would highly doubt it. Not with what Gillis is proposing.