The Curious Case of Mitch Marner discussion thread.

[666]

For those looking for a scapegoat, in terms of playoff performance compared to cap hit, he stands tall above the crowd.

Maybe you can explain why there is post after post after post about dumping Marner with his 0 goals and 4 assists this playoffs but for some reason Matthews is mostly immune from criticism with his 1/4/5 performance and Hands is some sort of hero with is 1/0/1 performance. The line got shut down when JT went down. What did you expect?

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Maybe you can explain why there is post after post after post about dumping Marner with his 0 goals and 4 assists this playoffs but for some reason Matthews is mostly immune from criticism with his 1/4/5 performance and Hands is some sort of hero with is 1/0/1 performance. The line got shut down when JT went down. What did you expect?

Matthews was getting double teamed all playoffs and played in good defensive position, didn't make multiple back breaking errors like Marner (puck over glass while already on PK, brutal giveaway to Staal in game 7). Also at one point Marner could have scored a tap in goal and tried to stick handle it in the net instead, just a stupid decision. Marner is one of the most talented players in the NHL no doubt and there is still time for him to re-write the narrative but as it is today he is overpaid and just generally unlikeable as a person, so it's not surprising that he is getting a lot of blame.

 

[666]

Matthews was getting double teamed all playoffs

Then how is Marner the playmaker supposed to perform when his other options is Hands. By the way that's exactly why Matthews can get double teamed because Hands is so useless and zero threat. I'm ok blaming the coaching as there is something wrong with the lines and the PP, but blaming Marner is silly.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Then how is Marner the playmaker supposed to perform when his other options is Hands. By the way that's exactly why Matthews can get double teamed because Hands is so useless and zero threat. I'm ok blaming the coaching as there is something wrong with the lines and the PP, but blaming Marner is silly.

I blame Sheldon Keefe more than anyone too, but again Marner had ample scoring chances too that he butchered by being too cute. At the end of the day, as good as his playmaking is I don't think he's worth his contract without being more of a goalscoring threat. And as I said he's not a likeable dude outside of hockey so it's hard to root for him this offseason, I hope he figures it out though

 

[Gary Nylund]

Maybe you can explain why there is post after post after post about dumping Marner with his 0 goals and 4 assists this playoffs but for some reason Matthews is mostly immune from criticism with his 1/4/5 performance and Hands is some sort of hero with is 1/0/1 performance. The line got shut down when JT went down. What did you expect?

I you have questions about some posts, you're more likely to get an answer if you direct them to the people that posted instead of me.

If you compare Matthews to Marner in terms of playoff performance, over the last 3 years Matthews blows him away and it's not close. No production, minimal compete, prioritizing avoiding getting hit over winning puck battles, taking dumb penalties at the worst possible time, JT going down no no way excuses his abysmal performance.

I expected Marner to play better in the past, considering how bad he's been I no longer expect that. I hope he gets traded and if not, I hope he plays better but expect is too strong a word at this point.

 

[Peasy]

Point signing 9.5x8 AFTER taking a bridge deal. And were stuck with this Marner contract

Its comical at this point. This franchise is always a joke.

 

[ChiTownLeafer]

Marnie better have a MVP season because after what Point signed for, Marner is looking like a greedy little kid. Dubas to blame for the overpayment also.

2M overpayment to both players (MM and AM). That's 4M that could have been used on better defense or better top 6 wingers.

 

[Jozay]

Looking at this guys contract is a kick in the mouth every time.

 

[PromisedLand]

Justify that Marner and Matthews contracts

 

[Maple Leaf]

Justify that Marner and Matthews contracts

o

 

[ACC1224]

Marnie better have a MVP season because after what Point signed for, Marner is looking like a greedy little kid. Dubas to blame for the overpayment also.

2M overpayment to both players (MM and AM). That's 4M that could have been used on better defense or better top 6 wingers.

They did sign pre-covid/flat cap and Tampa traditionally gets cheaper deals.

 

[Pi]

Justify that Marner and Matthews contracts

Simple. Leafs didn't predict the pandemic.

Such a pathetic management that they couldn't predict COVID19 and the flat cap.

 

[Beyonder91]

Simple. Leafs didn't predict the pandemic.

Such a pathetic management that they couldn't predict COVID19 and the flat cap.

It's not so simple for a lot of our fanbase unfortunately. They just want to look at contracts in a vacuum which makes no sense at all.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Justify that Marner and Matthews contracts

A complete and total f***ing joke.

Remember when everyone told us Marner's contract will look good after Point resigns after his bridge?

The usual goddamn bullshit.

They get 11 prime years out of Point that averages out to 8.7 cap hit per year. We got 6 years of Marner for 11. And lord f***ing knows that if he stays, he'll demand a significant raise when he actually has leverage (he had zero leverage as an rfa other than playing in Europe).

It's just unacceptable. We're always the joke of the league. ALWAYS.

 

[Pi]

It's not so simple for a lot of our fanbase unfortunately. They just want to look at contracts in a vacuum which makes no sense at all.

Yeah it sucks. I am not saying that Marner isn't overpaid for what he brings (he definitely is) but you can't possibly compare a pre and post covid contract with a flat cap.

If it wasn't for the pandemic, the cap is around 85-88M right now with the new ESPN/TBS contract, expansion etc.

 

[PromisedLand]

Simple. Leafs didn't predict the pandemic.

Such a pathetic management that they couldn't predict COVID19 and the flat cap.

Aho, Rantanen, Kucherov deals were done before the pandemic and aroind the same time as Marner

thanks for playing

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Simple. Leafs didn't predict the pandemic.

Such a pathetic management that they couldn't predict COVID19 and the flat cap.

With the contracts being handed out today, it seems Point is the only player affected by a flat cap...

Just the same old nonsense excuses. On and on we go.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It's not so simple for a lot of our fanbase unfortunately. They just want to look at contracts in a vacuum which makes no sense at all.

Oh, the flat cap means everyone makes peanuts? Ok, let's resign Rielly for like 4x4.

I'm going to take a WILD f***ING GUESS and say that Dubas won't be able to get these phantom "flat cap" discounts... None of it applies to us. It's all just nonsense excuses.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Its fairly obvious he won't be here long-term, its going to take another GM to do the right thing.

 

[Steven1562]

That Point contract compared to Marner

 

[Peasy]

Simple. Leafs didn't predict the pandemic.

Such a pathetic management that they couldn't predict COVID19 and the flat cap.

If Point was money hungry like the people on our team, he would have just signed another bridge deal to take him to UFA when the cap will begin to rise. Lets not try and act like the Marner contract is good, especially with his comparables. Marner wanted at least 9x3 while Point settled for 6.75x3.

Its hilarious, Tampa gets Point at 6.75x3 and then 9.5 x8.

Maner gets 10.9x6, and you know his next contract will likely have a higher aav than the current one.

These contracts are likely going to cost Dubas his job here, and really hurt his career.

 

[613Leafer]

So is the mArNeR's CoNtRaCt Is FiNe crowd still not seeing the problems created by the terrible contracts signed for Marner/Matthews and this teams general cap structure?

If we're going into this season with more or less this lineup plus one more bargain bin LWer, we may as well just throw in the towel now. Waste of a year of Matthews prime. I really don't see us running a proper balanced lineup that can contend for a Stanley Cup until we move one of the 10M+ contracts, and Marner is the one that makes the most sense to move.

 

[Beyonder91]

Oh, the flat cap means everyone makes peanuts? Ok, let's resign Rielly for like 4x4.

I'm going to take a WILD f***ING GUESS and say that Dubas won't be able to get these phantom "flat cap" discounts... None of it applies to us. It's all just nonsense excuses.

Sigh...
The flat cap is only one variable.

Look at Tampa's cap situation vs the Leafs cap situation at the time of Point's signing vs Matthews/Marner. Point is coming in after large contracts for Stamkos, Kuch & Vasi and has fallen right into line with those. Hedman is also earning more than any Leaf D-man was by a fair margin.
Toronto signed the ridiculous deal for Tavares because they had a boatload of cap space. Matthews then fell into line based on that deal and then Marner based on that. All the contracts are bad. Matthews & Marner both should have been at max term for the deals they got but they had leverage. Point doesn't have any leverage based on Tampa's cap situation.

Then you have the taxes issue which certainly factors into the deal.

I'm not saying that the Marner contract is a good one but it falls right into where it should be based on the internal Leafs cap situation when he signed it. He took a year more term and less money than Matthews. The Leafs also had the cap space to make the deal whereas Tampa is super, super squeezed. I'm surprised Point was still able to get what he did honestly. If he was on another team with more cap room he would have gotten more almost guaranteed.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So is the mArNeR's CoNtRaCt Is FiNe crowd still not seeing the problems created by the terrible contracts signed for Marner/Matthews and this teams general cap structure?

If we're going into this season with more or less this lineup plus one more bargain bin LWer, we may as well just throw in the towel now. Waste of a year of Matthews prime. I really don't see us running a proper balanced lineup that can contend for a Stanley Cup until we move one of the 10M+ contracts, and Marner is the one that makes the most sense to move.

Nylander is also overpaid. He was a proven 20 goal/60 point player paid in the hopes he turns into a 30 goal/70 point player. Thankfully he did. But other teams don't do it this way. They would pay him as a proven 20 goal/60 point player... and if he gets better that's just icing on the cake.

And I agree. These contracts will 100% cost Dubas his job. Especially the Marner one. It's by far the worse of the three.

 

[Beyonder91]

Nylander is also overpaid. He was a proven 20 goal/60 point player paid in the hopes he turns into a 30 goal/70 point player. Thankfully he did. But other teams don't do it this way. They would pay him as a proven 20 goal/60 point player... and if he gets better that's just icing on the cake.

And I agree. These contracts will 100% cost Dubas his job. Especially the Marner one. It's by far the worse of the three.

Tavares is the worst contract easily and it led to Matthews/Marner getting the deals they did.