The Core Has To Go

[Nineteen67]

Brodie didn't have a great playoffs ( he was probably dealing with an injury) but he was still the second best D man on the team for the majority of the year. No need to give that away. Maybe a hockey trade for another player if there's a younger guy available

Did they report he had an injury? If he didnt there’s no reason to keep him.

 

[Nineteen67]

I said a package. add more by all means. My point is simply there are trades that would allow us to improve. People think trading the best player in the trade automatically means you lose the trade. Sometimes addition by subtraction and depth can make a team better.

If we can get a necas at 70+ points and a solid defenseman and possibly a 1st or good prospect that helps us more imo.

As for brodie and mccabe, i think mccabe only has one year left but i think at $2 million he is a good bottom pairing.

Brodie only has a year left. They may be able to find a taker but the leafs would need something better to replace him with. Not sure who is out there that we can get realistically?

I agree they’ll need to trade and build the D, but there are so many holes it feels impossible to fix them all through trades.
If they think it’s going to take more than 3 yrs it may make sense to trade Rielly now while he has value and try through the draft.

 

[hobarth]

Brodie makes $5 mil. per, he managed 3 pts. in 11 games during the playoffs and a -3, during the regular season Brodie had 14 pts in 58 games and was +10, his speed is alright but he has absolutely no physicality in his game, there's nothing in his stats suggesting he's worth $5 and he's 33 so there's no reason to think his game is going to improve.

Brodie like Rielly is just more of the same type of player that isn't going to be what TO needs to progress in the playoffs. A team might be able to thrive with these types of players during the regular season but far more physicality is needed for the playoffs along with defensive and offensive competency neither of which Brodie offers in the playoffs at his pay level.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Only works if the cap hit for 5-6 yrs are quite a bit lower than 8 yrs.

Why would Nylander’s 35 year old season cost more than his 29 year old season?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

These same core guys that keep collapsing are never going win anything.

They're all super-rich super-crybabies.

More worried about how many zero's will be on their next contract than contending for the cup. Winning is an afterthought to stuffing their bank accounts. If they ever even thought about winning at all.

This is where we are at.

The team is becoming more and more dis-likeable. All because of the country club mentality that protects certain players. It frustrates fans having to watch a guy like Nylander getting away with SLOWLY learning what it takes to win.

While guys like Kadri leave, only to win it all on their new team a few years later.

At some point you have to question this core. Matthews was drafted in 2016. Since then they've won a single lousy playoffs round.

Cowardly, soft, weak, divas don't usually do well in physically aggressive sports like hockey.

Which is why I don't see these guys ever winning anything. So mentally fragile and insecure. They're all softer than baby shit.

If the Leafs actually wanted to contend, they'd get rid of a couple of these softies too afraid to go in the corners to take a hit.

Bring in some hard nosed players that really want to win.

 

[Nineteen67]

These same core guys that keep collapsing are never going win anything.

They're all super-rich super-crybabies.

More worried about how many zero's will be on their next contract than contending for the cup. Winning is an afterthought to stuffing their bank accounts. If they ever even thought about winning at all.

This is where we are at.

The team is becoming more and more dis-likeable. All because of the country club mentality that protects certain players. It frustrates fans having to watch a guy like Nylander getting away with SLOWLY learning what it takes to win.

While guys like Kadri leave, only to win it all on their new team a few years later.

At some point you have to question this core. Matthews was drafted in 2016. Since then they've won a single lousy playoffs round.

Cowardly, soft, weak, divas don't usually do well in physically aggressive sports like hockey.

Which is why I don't see these guys ever winning anything. So mentally fragile and insecure. They're all softer than baby shit.

If the Leafs actually wanted to contend, they'd get rid of a couple of these softies too afraid to go in the corners to take a hit.

Bring in some hard nosed players that really want to win.

I think it’s safe to say the core has been questioned. Regardless of how and who, they’ll need more help than a normal core help to win 10-12 playoff games. They’ll need top end D, which all teams need so they’re really no different, but they also some guys that lead a team in the playoffs.

How do they make that happen?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I think it’s safe to say the core has been questioned. Regardless of how and who, they’ll need more help than a normal core help to win 10-12 playoff games. They’ll need top end D, which all teams need so they’re really no different, but they also some guys that lead a team in the playoffs.

How do they make that happen?

Thanks for the response.

I don't get paid millions of dollars to know the answers, but if I was Treliving, I would think they would need to start by trading Nylander or Marner for a proper 1RHD.

The biggest mistake, next to signing Tavares, the Dubas regime made was a trade they didn't make: not trading Marner or Nylander to sign Pietrangelo (my preference) or Hamilton.

They should have traded Nylander or Marner for a bunch of picks/prospects and sign one of those two guys I mentioned. Then use the picks/prospects to acquire quality depth to fill in around the stars. I don't think there is a Norris caliber 1RHD available this year on UFA market.

So if they trade Marner or Nylander for a guy like that now, it will be one for one straight up.

Given Treliving's trade history, I don't have much faith he will be able to trade out any aging declining vets (Tavares) in a predatory trade for young upcoming defensemen on a good contract.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Did they report he had an injury? If he didnt there’s no reason to keep him.

You don't know the drill around here by now? Every Leaf player that underperforms has an injury, because Leaf players are always the bestest players ever!

 

[57 Years No Cup]

These same core guys that keep collapsing are never going win anything.

They're all super-rich super-crybabies.

More worried about how many zero's will be on their next contract than contending for the cup. Winning is an afterthought to stuffing their bank accounts. If they ever even thought about winning at all.

This is where we are at.

The team is becoming more and more dis-likeable. All because of the country club mentality that protects certain players. It frustrates fans having to watch a guy like Nylander getting away with SLOWLY learning what it takes to win.

While guys like Kadri leave, only to win it all on their new team a few years later.

At some point you have to question this core. Matthews was drafted in 2016. Since then they've won a single lousy playoffs round.

Cowardly, soft, weak, divas don't usually do well in physically aggressive sports like hockey.

Which is why I don't see these guys ever winning anything. So mentally fragile and insecure. They're all softer than baby shit.

If the Leafs actually wanted to contend, they'd get rid of a couple of these softies too afraid to go in the corners to take a hit.

Bring in some hard nosed players that really want to win.

 

[Gallagbi]

Brodie makes $5 mil. per, he managed 3 pts. in 11 games during the playoffs and a -3, during the regular season Brodie had 14 pts in 58 games and was +10, his speed is alright but he has absolutely no physicality in his game, there's nothing in his stats suggesting he's worth $5 and he's 33 so there's no reason to think his game is going to improve.

Brodie like Rielly is just more of the same type of player that isn't going to be what TO needs to progress in the playoffs. A team might be able to thrive with these types of players during the regular season but far more physicality is needed for the playoffs along with defensive and offensive competency neither of which Brodie offers in the playoffs at his pay level.

You think Rielly and Brodie play a similar style of game?

 

[arso40]

Thanks for the response.

I don't get paid millions of dollars to know the answers, but if I was Treliving, I would think they would need to start by trading Nylander or Marner for a proper 1RHD.

The biggest mistake, next to signing Tavares, the Dubas regime made was a trade they didn't make: not trading Marner or Nylander to sign Pietrangelo (my preference) or Hamilton.

They should have traded Nylander or Marner for a bunch of picks/prospects and sign one of those two guys I mentioned. Then use the picks/prospects to acquire quality depth to fill in around the stars. I don't think there is a Norris caliber 1RHD available this year on UFA market.

So if they trade Marner or Nylander for a guy like that now, it will be one for one straight up.

Given Treliving's trade history, I don't have much faith he will be able to trade out any aging declining vets (Tavares) in a predatory trade for young upcoming defensemen on a good contract.

If they didn’t sign Tavares they wouldn’t need to re allocate cap space but I get what your saying though

 

[hobarth]

You think Rielly and Brodie play a similar style of game?

Yes I do, neither have an ounce of physicality in their game, Rielly gets points because he gets tons of PP time, I think Brodie could match Relly's points given the opportunity to man the point of TO's PP.

I don't think either can defend without significant help from the forwards and goalies, gap control and handling opposition forwards in their d zone is foreign to both, Rielly will go on hot streaks where he'll accumulate significant offensive stats but then he goes dormant for far longer periods, Brodie doesn't have the hot streaks because he doesn't see PP time.

 

[authentic]

Yes I do, neither have an ounce of physicality in their game, Rielly gets points because he gets tons of PP time, I think Brodie could match Relly's points given the opportunity to man the point of TO's PP.

I don't think either can defend without significant help from the forwards and goalies, gap control and handling opposition forwards in their d zone is foreign to both, Rielly will go on hot streaks where he'll accumulate significant offensive stats but then he goes dormant for far longer periods, Brodie doesn't have the hot streaks because he doesn't see PP time.

Playoff Rielly and playoff Brodie are not even close to the same players, let's be real here.

 

[Doublerum1975]

Yes I do, neither have an ounce of physicality in their game, Rielly gets points because he gets tons of PP time, I think Brodie could match Relly's points given the opportunity to man the point of TO's PP.

I don't think either can defend without significant help from the forwards and goalies, gap control and handling opposition forwards in their d zone is foreign to both, Rielly will go on hot streaks where he'll accumulate significant offensive stats but then he goes dormant for far longer periods, Brodie doesn't have the hot streaks because he doesn't see PP time.

You watch the playoffs?

 

[hobarth]

Watch the playoffs I did, Rielly was very good in the 1st round offensively but let's be real it was the goalie that got TO thru that round because TO's d and the whole team was consistently outplayed by TB.

Like the Rielly of the regular season, he wasn't hot in the 2nd round, his game was subpar as TO's #1 d-man, I think, Schenn played better than Rielly in the 2nd round and I will be disappointed if TO resigns Schenn.

TO went 7 straight games where they could only score 2 goals a game, Rielly as TO's only offensive d-man needs to blamed as significantly as the big 4, he is a part of the core. If TO could afford to find and pay an actual #1 d-man, Rielly's value will plummet significantly, he would very quickly be considered overpaid, which he is.

 

[Gaberd2608]

I agree they’ll need to trade and build the D, but there are so many holes it feels impossible to fix them all through trades.
If they think it’s going to take more than 3 yrs it may make sense to trade Rielly now while he has value and try through the draft.

It is also possible to build a team through signing some ufas. Marners cap is crazy so if we trade him, we can possibly turn his cap into 3-4 players. Necas and Pesce are cheap next year, we can maybe resign ROR and possibly Bertuzzi as well if we can make Murray dissappear as well.

Bertuzzi. Matthews. Necas
Knies Tavares. Nylander
Robertson ROR. Jarnkrok
Lafferty. Holmberg. Acciari

Rielly. Pesce
Brodie. Lilly
Mccabe. Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

 

[Gabriel426]

I think it’s safe to say the core has been questioned. Regardless of how and who, they’ll need more help than a normal core help to win 10-12 playoff games. They’ll need top end D, which all teams need so they’re really no different, but they also some guys that lead a team in the playoffs.

How do they make that happen?

That’s such a great point but isn’t the Leafs the only team in the league who got THREE 10mil plus players in the lineup.
Should those three actually do something in the playoffs instead just putting up great advanced stats?
People kept saying Hockey is a team game and not like basketball where one player can make a difference, but…..isn’t that why we got THREE 10mil plus players? For some reason our coach love to play them on the same line or at least two of them together instead of spreading them out. Most importantly they don’t really deliver when it matters most.
We can have the best supporting cast in the league but those three don’t produce, we ain’t going to win. Bc I never seen any Cup Winners that can win the Cup when their top three paying forwards combine for 1 goal in 5 games.

Watch the playoffs I did, Rielly was very good in the 1st round offensively but let's be real it was the goalie that got TO thru that round because TO's d and the whole team was consistently outplayed by TB.

Like the Rielly of the regular season, he wasn't hot in the 2nd round, his game was subpar as TO's #1 d-man, I think, Schenn played better than Rielly in the 2nd round and I will be disappointed if TO resigns Schenn.

TO went 7 straight games where they could only score 2 goals a game, Rielly as TO's only offensive d-man needs to blamed as significantly as the big 4, he is a part of the core. If TO could afford to find and pay an actual #1 d-man, Rielly's value will plummet significantly, he would very quickly be considered overpaid, which he is.

Reilly might not be as good as he was in Round One but you can’t blame the Leafs scoring two goals a game on Reilly. 1 goal in 5 games for AM, MM and JT is the reason.

 

[hobarth]

That’s such a great point but isn’t the Leafs the only team in the league who got THREE 10mil plus players in the lineup.
Should those three actually do something in the playoffs instead just putting up great advanced stats?
People kept saying Hockey is a team game and not like basketball where one player can make a difference, but…..isn’t that why we got THREE 10mil plus players? For some reason our coach love to play them on the same line or at least two of them together instead of spreading them out. Most importantly they don’t really deliver when it matters most.
We can have the best supporting cast in the league but those three don’t produce, we ain’t going to win. Bc I never seen any Cup Winners that can win the Cup when their top three paying forwards combine for 1 goal in 5 games.


Reilly might not be as good as he was in Round One but you can’t blame the Leafs scoring two goals a game on Reilly. 1 goal in 5 games for AM, MM and JT is the reason.

He's definitely part of the problem, his extremely limited imagination while manning the point on the PP is a problem, he's alright, actually downright good when hot, but when he's not as he wasn't as the playoffs moved along he was actually an anchor. I so much wanted to see Gustafsson on the point like TO used Barrie years ago, Rielly wasn't good on the PP so TO needed a change, who knows what might have happened.

 

[hobarth]

Thanks for the response.

I don't get paid millions of dollars to know the answers, but if I was Treliving, I would think they would need to start by trading Nylander or Marner for a proper 1RHD.

The biggest mistake, next to signing Tavares, the Dubas regime made was a trade they didn't make: not trading Marner or Nylander to sign Pietrangelo (my preference) or Hamilton.

They should have traded Nylander or Marner for a bunch of picks/prospects and sign one of those two guys I mentioned. Then use the picks/prospects to acquire quality depth to fill in around the stars. I don't think there is a Norris caliber 1RHD available this year on UFA market.

So if they trade Marner or Nylander for a guy like that now, it will be one for one straight up.

Given Treliving's trade history, I don't have much faith he will be able to trade out any aging declining vets (Tavares) in a predatory trade for young upcoming defensemen on a good contract.

A lot of quality players have contracts naming teams they don't want to play for, Canadian teams are definitely high on these lists, fantasy trades are just that, rarely grounded in reality.

One of TO's greatest problems when/if trading one of the core becomes essential, like now, it will be difficult to be receiving back proper value.

Treviling's trade history might/probably would be far better if he had been the GM of an American team.

So long as TO continues to keep the present core or even makes trades, it will be to win now, young upcoming d-men aren't what TO needs to win now. Leaf fans should consider themselves extremely lucky because JT willingly signed with TO, he might be a declining asset but there aren't a lot of players who are as productive as he has been and may continue to be.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

A lot of quality players have contracts naming teams they don't want to play for, Canadian teams are definitely high on these lists, fantasy trades are just that, rarely grounded in reality.

One of TO's greatest problems when/if trading one of the core becomes essential, like now, it will be difficult to be receiving back proper value.

Treviling's trade history might/probably would be far better if he had been the GM of an American team.

So long as TO continues to keep the present core or even makes trades, it will be to win now, young upcoming d-men aren't what TO needs to win now. Leaf fans should consider themselves extremely lucky because JT willingly signed with TO, he might be a declining asset but there aren't a lot of players who are as productive as he has been and may continue to be.

Thanks for the response.

I'm not sure if I'm reading your comment here properly. It's a little ambiguous mentioning the players with M-NTC that have a ten team no trade list or whatever. I can't tell if you are using it to justify Treliving's spotty trade history, or if you are referring to trading Nylander/Marner or Pieteangelo/Hamilton coming to Toronto, so I will address both.

Marner and Nylander didn't have trade protection until this coming season. They could have been traded to any team in the league and there would have been nothing they could have done about it. I'm also pretty sure the Leafs could have traded either of those guys to virtually any team in the league except maybe those at the very bottom looking to tank.

Pietrangelo and Hamilton were free agents and allowed to sign anywhere they wanted.

Both are also from Toronto/GTA, so coming here probably wouldn't have been an issue for either.

If you are using the M-NTC to justify Treliving's trade record, you may be on to something, as we all remember Kadri not waiving his NTC to go there.

I don't think it justifies his spotty trade record though.

 

[5mokey]

No he hasnt. He coasted through the first round and he has been atrocious in the second.

Marner was a give away machine against Florida

 

[Nineteen67]

It is also possible to build a team through signing some ufas. Marners cap is crazy so if we trade him, we can possibly turn his cap into 3-4 players. Necas and Pesce are cheap next year, we can maybe resign ROR and possibly Bertuzzi as well if we can make Murray dissappear as well.

Bertuzzi. Matthews. Necas
Knies Tavares. Nylander
Robertson ROR. Jarnkrok
Lafferty. Holmberg. Acciari

Rielly. Pesce
Brodie. Lilly
Mccabe. Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

IMO, Trading one of Marner or Matthews would have to return a top pairing young D like an Owen Power to build the D around, and a top 6 forward.
I get what you're saying, but I think adding a few older players doesn't really solve the problems. They would make the playoffs, but likely lose early and be in the same position next year.

It’s amazing how poorly this team was managed during the rebuild that they recused themselves from the draft. Especially hard to understand when Dubas’ strength was finding gems in the draft and what would he have found with more picks.

 

[ToneDog]

IMO, Trading one of Marner or Matthews would have to return a top pairing young D like an Owen Power to build the D around, and a top 6 forward.
I get what you're saying, but I think adding a few older players doesn't really solve the problems. They would make the playoffs, but likely lose early and be in the same position next year.

It’s amazing how poorly this team was managed during the rebuild that they recused themselves from the draft. Especially hard to understand when Dubas’ strength was finding gems in the draft and what would he have found with more picks.

I'd drive Marner to Buffalo if we could get Power for him. Sabres would gladly add Skinner.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He's definitely part of the problem, his extremely limited imagination while manning the point on the PP is a problem, he's alright, actually downright good when hot, but when he's not as he wasn't as the playoffs moved along he was actually an anchor. I so much wanted to see Gustafsson on the point like TO used Barrie years ago, Rielly wasn't good on the PP so TO needed a change, who knows what might have happened.

Rielly and Nylander were easily our two best players against Florida.

The anchor was Tavares, and to a lesser extent Marner.

 

[BallardEra]

Howard Berger still not happy with the Leafs:

Lazy Leafs Refuse to Learn

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