The Core Has To Go

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I think it's well established this core doesn't have what it takes.

It would be very difficult for Treliving to do any worse than what Dubas accomplished with this same group of players. He probably won't do any better. But odds are he won't do any worse either.

That's a low enough bar to set.

I guess...

No matter how hard I try, I just can't see this core getting it done. That would require ignoring a lot more recent history than I'm comfortable with. At this point the only thing left for a Leafs fan to cling onto is believing it can't get any worse.

It's probably just me.

I expect too much from the team that I cheer for. That sounds like a "me" problem if I ever heard one. It's not like I'm an expert on hockey or anything. Just a fan who wants to set the bar high.

It's my fault for doing so I guess.

 

[Trapper]

I think Nylander will likely get a limited NTC more so than a NMC. That said, you ask a fair question. Though in the case of Nylander I think an 8 year deal will likely lead to a lower caphit than a shorter term deal would.

I don’t think anyone should have a NMC.
All NTC. But if they absolutely must, you give Matthews the NMC for the first 3 years and then a 10 team NTC for the last 2 (on a 5 year deal).

 

[Gallagbi]

Only works if the cap hit for 5-6 yrs are quite a bit lower than 8 yrs.

4-6 year deals should be more expensive than an 8 year deal because youre locking up all the prime years without that expected fall out

 

[rumman]

I don’t think anyone should have a NMC.
All NTC. But if they absolutely must, you give Matthews the NMC for the first 3 years and then a 10 team NTC for the last 2 (on a 5 year deal).

I’m with you NMC‘s shouldn’t be offered even if it cost more money……..

 

[Gabriel426]

4-6 year deals should be more expensive than an 8 year deal because youre locking up all the prime years without that expected fall out

Depends on what age the player is at.
When players coming out of ELC, shorter terms works as bridge deal but when it comes to players around UFA age, shorter terms will be higher due to age for the player. However, the point is to build a competitive team thus when if comes to AM extending, the lower the AVV the better.

 

[Gallagbi]

Depends on what age the player is at.
When players coming out of ELC, shorter terms works as bridge deal but when it comes to players around UFA age, shorter terms will be higher due to age for the player. However, the point is to build a competitive team thus when if comes to AM extending, the lower the AVV the better.

I completely agree on age mattering and my comment was specific for our group of Marner, Matthews and Nylander. Basically the more prime years youre locking up the more costly itll be. The ramp up/down should be the less costly years.

So those 3 players on a 4-6 year deal should be a premium cost on an 8 yr deal. Not vice versa

 

[ToneDog]

Vegas ran it back last year with a new coach, worse goaltending, dumped Patches and traded for Barbashev at the TDL and are about to win the SC.

I doubt we win running it back with Sheldon and a new GM. Sorry, don't see it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Vegas ran it back last year with a new coach, worse goaltending, dumped Patches and traded for Barbashev at the TDL and are about to win the SC.

I doubt we win running it back with Sheldon and a new GM. Sorry, don't see it.

They're also not known as a team that's easy to play against, year after year. And whose best players can't adapt to playoff hockey

 

[rumman]

Vegas ran it back last year with a new coach, worse goaltending, dumped Patches and traded for Barbashev at the TDL and are about to win the SC.

I doubt we win running it back with Sheldon and a new GM. Sorry, don't see it.

Situation nomal, all f**ked up………

 

[Its not your fault]

If I believed they could win these trades I might agree. I don't think they would go 3 for 5 if you included Rielly with the core in trades. That's all that matters, if someone over pays you always take unless there is a known risk. Which will be about 2 thirds of the players that come back knowing the leafs.

 

[Its not your fault]

Has anyone truly been worth their contract value on the leafs?

Maybe schenn orielly Accari knies and surprisingly the 4th lines been great.

So basically all the new guys from other culture teams and our 4th line who is the least skilled line. I see a common trend…just work hard and play hard and good things happen. (Seattle)

3 of the top 5/10 paid players in the league haven’t earned it.

If you don't win you can't say one teams better at not winning is more successful then another teams way of losing. If that matters so too would being beat by a finalists or the Champs...can't be both ways.

 

[Eye Test]

If you don't win you can't say one teams better at not winning is more successful then another teams way of losing. If that matters so too would being beat by a finalists or the Champs...can't be both ways.

Cool story bro but why tell me it? Has nothing to do with what you replied too.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Can the Maple Leafs get better by trading one of their stars?

It feels like something has to change with the Toronto Maple Leafs this summer, but can a 111-point team get better by trading one of its core forwards? Justin Bourne looks at a few options to consider.

www.sportsnet.ca

Back to logic, though. The Leafs are coming off seasons of 115 and 111 points and they beat the three-time defending Eastern Conference champs in the playoffs. The Vegas Golden Knights just won the Stanley Cup a year removed from missing the playoffs, while the Florida Panthers snuck in by a point. It’s hard to feel like Toronto is that far off, or that they need a full overhaul.

So if they were to trade one of their core pieces, how do they get -- and I want to phrase this correctly... how do they get different without getting worse? They’re already in the clump of teams good enough to win the Cup. But this exact formula hasn’t worked, fans are angry, and you need to start with the vibes and energy in a different place.

For clarification: You already know that we’re talking about trading Mitch Marner or William Nylander, right? If Auston Matthews doesn’t want to re-sign that changes things, but assuming he does (and there is reason to believe he will), they’re obviously not trading him. And John Tavares is the captain with an ironclad no-trade clause, so he’s sticking around.

So if you were willing to trade Marner or Nylander -- maybe the latter on a sign-and-trade? -- what are some of the options you could pursue to get different, without getting worse (and hopefully improve a little)?

You’d love to go into a playoff series feeling like you clearly have the best goaltender, wouldn’t you?

I realize that, on the talent front, Leafs fans may not love it. Marner has twice been voted the best right-winger in the NHL, he’s a perennial 100-point-ish guy, and he’s in his prime. He gets Selke votes. He’s a star.

But he also makes almost $11 million for the next two seasons, and if we’re not leaving anything unsaid, his playoff performances have left something to be desired.

If that extra $6 million per season frees you up to pay for, say, a big portion of Dmitry Orlov’s next contract in free agency, how much better do you like the Leafs with Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, an ascendant Matthew Knies, and a few other nice pieces complemented by Saros in net and Orlov on D? Cap space is an asset, and when you trade a player for nothing (think: Max Pacioretty to Carolina for “nothing,” as Vegas did last off-season), you have to think of that open money as the asset gained. It’s a flexible asset that can become another valuable piece.

 

[Gabriel426]

Just realized Vegas actually got more players to remained in their lineup since they started then the Leafs at the same timespan. As Vegas got 6 players from the expansion draft and at the same time only 5 Leafs managed to stay as Leafs.

 

[Its not your fault]

Cool story bro but why tell me it? Has nothing to do with what you replied too.

Sure it does you're saying Seattle is a winning hockey club but it wasn't.

 

[myleafs]

Vegas ran it back last year with a new coach, worse goaltending, dumped Patches and traded for Barbashev at the TDL and are about to win the SC.

I doubt we win running it back with Sheldon and a new GM. Sorry, don't see it.

They also added a full season of a healthy Eichel

 

[ToneDog]

Just realized Vegas actually got more players to remained in their lineup since they started then the Leafs at the same timespan. As Vegas got 6 players from the expansion draft and at the same time only 5 Leafs managed to stay as Leafs.

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly and Holl. It will soon be the 4 guys who were on the playoff roster for 7 runs under Shanny because Holl did not play in the playoffs against Washington.

 

[rumman]

They also added a full season of a healthy Eichel

No small add to be sure………

 

[Eye Test]

Sure it does you're saying Seattle is a winning hockey club but it wasn't.

Thanks for wasting my time.

 

[Gaberd2608]

Can the Maple Leafs get better by trading one of their stars?

It feels like something has to change with the Toronto Maple Leafs this summer, but can a 111-point team get better by trading one of its core forwards? Justin Bourne looks at a few options to consider.

www.sportsnet.ca

Back to logic, though. The Leafs are coming off seasons of 115 and 111 points and they beat the three-time defending Eastern Conference champs in the playoffs. The Vegas Golden Knights just won the Stanley Cup a year removed from missing the playoffs, while the Florida Panthers snuck in by a point. It’s hard to feel like Toronto is that far off, or that they need a full overhaul.

So if they were to trade one of their core pieces, how do they get -- and I want to phrase this correctly... how do they get different without getting worse? They’re already in the clump of teams good enough to win the Cup. But this exact formula hasn’t worked, fans are angry, and you need to start with the vibes and energy in a different place.

For clarification: You already know that we’re talking about trading Mitch Marner or William Nylander, right? If Auston Matthews doesn’t want to re-sign that changes things, but assuming he does (and there is reason to believe he will), they’re obviously not trading him. And John Tavares is the captain with an ironclad no-trade clause, so he’s sticking around.

So if you were willing to trade Marner or Nylander -- maybe the latter on a sign-and-trade? -- what are some of the options you could pursue to get different, without getting worse (and hopefully improve a little)?

You’d love to go into a playoff series feeling like you clearly have the best goaltender, wouldn’t you?

I realize that, on the talent front, Leafs fans may not love it. Marner has twice been voted the best right-winger in the NHL, he’s a perennial 100-point-ish guy, and he’s in his prime. He gets Selke votes. He’s a star.

But he also makes almost $11 million for the next two seasons, and if we’re not leaving anything unsaid, his playoff performances have left something to be desired.

If that extra $6 million per season frees you up to pay for, say, a big portion of Dmitry Orlov’s next contract in free agency, how much better do you like the Leafs with Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, an ascendant Matthew Knies, and a few other nice pieces complemented by Saros in net and Orlov on D? Cap space is an asset, and when you trade a player for nothing (think: Max Pacioretty to Carolina for “nothing,” as Vegas did last off-season), you have to think of that open money as the asset gained. It’s a flexible asset that can become another valuable piece.

If they trade marner for argument sake to Carolina for a package of Necas and Pesce I think the leafs improve. Im sure there are other deals to be made but this is an example. Leaf can extend both for less then what marner is currently making.

Knies. Matthews. Nylander
Robertson. Tavares. Necas
Jarnkrok xxxxx. Xxxxx
Lafferty. Holmberg. Acciari

Rielly. Pesce
Brodie. Lilly
McCabe. Timmins
Gio

Samsonov
Woll

 

[Nineteen67]

If they trade marner for argument sake to Carolina for a package of Necas and Pesce I think the leafs improve. Im sure there are other deals to be made but this is an example. Leaf can extend both for less then what marner is currently making.

Knies. Matthews. Nylander
Robertson. Tavares. Necas
Jarnkrok xxxxx. Xxxxx
Lafferty. Holmberg. Acciari

Rielly. Pesce
Brodie. Lilly
McCabe. Timmins
Gio

Samsonov
Woll

That’s not enough for Marner.
There’s no way the Leafs are keeping Brodie or McCabe. They’re just too slow and if they can’t move them or even give them away then the rebuild will take 5 yrs. They may as well keep Gio and let him play once per week.

 

[arso40]

If they trade marner for argument sake to Carolina for a package of Necas and Pesce I think the leafs improve. Im sure there are other deals to be made but this is an example. Leaf can extend both for less then what marner is currently making.

Knies. Matthews. Nylander
Robertson. Tavares. Necas
Jarnkrok xxxxx. Xxxxx
Lafferty. Holmberg. Acciari

Rielly. Pesce
Brodie. Lilly
McCabe. Timmins
Gio

Samsonov
Woll

Think there’s still gotta be a draft pic in there somewhere atleast

 

[Gaberd2608]

Think there’s still gotta be a draft pic in there somewhere atleast

That’s not enough for Marner.
There’s no way the Leafs are keeping Brodie or McCabe. They’re just too slow and if they can’t move them or even give them away then the rebuild will take 5 yrs. They may as well keep Gio and let him play once per week.

I said a package. add more by all means. My point is simply there are trades that would allow us to improve. People think trading the best player in the trade automatically means you lose the trade. Sometimes addition by subtraction and depth can make a team better.

If we can get a necas at 70+ points and a solid defenseman and possibly a 1st or good prospect that helps us more imo.

As for brodie and mccabe, i think mccabe only has one year left but i think at $2 million he is a good bottom pairing.

Brodie only has a year left. They may be able to find a taker but the leafs would need something better to replace him with. Not sure who is out there that we can get realistically?

 

[ULF_55]

I don’t think anyone should have a NMC.
All NTC. But if they absolutely must, you give Matthews the NMC for the first 3 years and then a 10 team NTC for the last 2 (on a 5 year deal).

No problem with NMC for first half of contract, then to NTC.

Don't sign them if you think you want to trade them within half the deal.

Example, Tavares on a NTC would have been great.

 

[Menzinger]

That’s not enough for Marner.
There’s no way the Leafs are keeping Brodie or McCabe. They’re just too slow and if they can’t move them or even give them away then the rebuild will take 5 yrs. They may as well keep Gio and let him play once per week.

Brodie didn't have a great playoffs ( he was probably dealing with an injury) but he was still the second best D man on the team for the majority of the year. No need to give that away. Maybe a hockey trade for another player if there's a younger guy available