The Core Has To Go

[Gary Nylund]

We can bitch and moan about what any of them signed for, but it changes nothing.

The fact is that it has become a problem moving forward and if Marner is overpaid then Matthews is as well. I would also say that Marner even though overpaid is more valuable per min of ice time then is Matthews.

The only thing that Mitch doesn't do is put the puck into the net at superstar levels, which is the only thing Matthews really does better.

When a line isn't going it's Mitch that gets the job to turn it around, not Matthews, not Will and not JT. When the PK was struggling put MM on it and suddenly a respectable Kill that's dangerous offensively, not Will, not Auston and not JT.

We didn't get bounced out of the playoffs just because MM wasn't setting up goals, we got bounced because our team got filled in

There wasn't enough pushback from the big dogs and there wasn't enough from the bottom of the lineup. The only remedy is to pick up some of those players and that requires money.

Just remember Marner can set anyone up, anyone, Bunting Jarkrok, JT, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, vanRymsdiek, Bozak, and helped turn Matthews into an MVP. Pretty good resume.

The Leafs need guys who are willing to crush people on the forecheck but they also need guys who can create offence.

You aren't trading Matthews or Will and getting Matthews and Will back, but what you can get is

2 or 3 bone crushers up front
A young grade A prospect centreman with some bite
Enough cash to sign Klingberg, and resign ROR, Acciari and Lafferty
A handful of premium picks

Matthews also has the tougher defensive assignments. IMO Matthews is easily more valuable than Marner.

 

[therealkoho]

O'Reilly (due to the amount he will want), Kerfoot, Kampf, Holl should all walk in UFA. Schenn should be brought back (no longer than 2 years at no more than $1.5M per year).

If Samsonov files for arbitration (you would expect he would) than the amount awarded you probably need to walk away from and let him go UFA.

McCabe and Jarnkrok likely stay at least till next year TDL, Lafferty is a replacement level player who is available league wide every off-season. Giordano is unlikely to move but have his games dressed decrease or he retires to join the coaching/staff/player development side.

If Gio retires it becomes 850 in dead space, you'd rather have him in the rotation and coaching the younger guys.

 

[therealkoho]

Matthews also has the tougher defensive assignments. IMO Matthews is easily more valuable than Marner.

Potato Potatoe

Sometimes it's appearence

MM is very often the guy they play high in the forecheck and so rarely the first guy back,

 

[notDatsyuk]

No i didn't consider secondary assist because over 80-85% of the time player who get the second assist didn't had higher impact on the play than the rest of player on the ice

Nylander get a lot of secondary assist because his skating ability and the fact hes was playing a lot on peripheric where you will get a lot of space... so he will touch much more puck than a guy like tavares, oreilly who will drive the net and going in dirty area

But at the end skating in neutral zone with tje puck or around the board doesn't make nylander a better player


Yes and no

1-Im agree tavares is not kind of player you will create a lot of scoring chance by himself and its the same thing with a guy like oreilly... its kind of player who will rush the net, deflect shot, screen goalie, took rebound, and fighting in the slot... but yes hes too slow to create scoring from the rush....

2-Nylander is a most dynamic player by his skating ability and he having the puck on his stick a lot of time but at the end he dont creating more offensive opportunity come playoff time when space disappear... because he stay in peripheric and didn't work.

Number of scoring chance by both at 5v5
Tavares 41 Vs nylander 37
High danger chance
tavares 23 vs nylander 19


3- yes im also agree than jt is the worst leafs c defensivly... but nylander was by far the worst leafs player in defensive zone last 2 playoff

4-And yes hes overpay and hes not peven close to deserve 11M but leafs dont have any choice than keep him. Its a fact if we like it or not... but if we forgot the salary for a second, if i hve to choose between tavares and nylander at same salary.. i keep tavares all day long. But yes i know his salary is pretty bad

Oh, I wish Tavares had the same contract as Nylander.

The we could have traded him a couple of years ago, and we wouldn't be in this mess!

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Something needs to be done about the country club atmosphere.

I'm sorry, but this team is too soft, arrogant, and entitled. Tanenbaum needs to change the culture. It won't be easy.

With big wages comes big egos.

I don't think Keefe had enough clout behind him to gain their respect. Then again, they turned on Babcock too. Maybe these guys really are just coach killers.

"We can and we will" gave us an expensively assembled, and woefully unbalanced, squad.

The result of years of poorly thought roster construction. Which, alone, would have been difficult for any coach to gather success from. But there are so many arrogant and entitled players, on expensive contracts, who are never going to put the work in to win anything.

Until the core has divested itself of Blue'n'White disease, the losing won't stop.

 

[seventieslord]

Why don't we just let Tavares contract run out?

I would say, because as long as he's here we'll never win the cup, and we burn off two more prime years of two superstars, assuming we keep them.

Moving JT should be priority one.

 

[sunstersun]

Tavares is so bad, no one smart wastes their breath complaining about him. We know he's cooked as a player. With a NMC and 11mil. We're not trading him either.

 

[seventieslord]

To be fair, I think they could build a better team around Marner + Matthews + Nylander while using Tavares' cap space for better surrounding pieces. It's unfortunate they can't go down this route

Actually, they can

 

[Hockeysawks]

I would say, because as long as he's here we'll never win the cup, and we burn off two more prime years of two superstars, assuming we keep them.

Moving JT should be priority one.

I'm not sure they want to keep signing high profile respected players then running them out of town. The way PM was treated was shameful. It will get harder to bring UFA's in if JT gets the same treatment

 

[seventieslord]

I'm not sure they want to keep signing high profile respected players then running them out of town. The way PM was treated was shameful. It will get harder to bring UFA's in if JT gets the same treatment

Wouldn't happen to players who sign for a fair price and who perform well relative to salary.

I don't know who PM is.

There will always be players who want to come to Toronto. Always has been.

You think a UFA watches that happen, and says to himself, "Gee, I better not sign here. If I make too much money and I suck they'll try to trade me!!!" As if that wouldn't be a risk in 31 other cities! Give yer head a shake...

 

[seventieslord]

Tavares is so bad, no one smart wastes their breath complaining about him. We know he's cooked as a player. With a NMC and 11mil. We're not trading him either.

If the leafs want to move him, and push him, they can get it done. Worse contacts have been traded a sudden times before. Why do we all act like there's no way it can happen? It won't, if we don't build a groundswell of support for it.

It's worth whatever it costs, if the leafs fancy themselves a contending team. Because they ain't winning shit while he's here. Not a chance. Can't just write off two years of contention because you have a bad contact and don't want to hurt a guys feelings/are worried about theoretical future free agents.

 

[seventieslord]

You working with human and youre not in a video game, if youre acting with your player without any kind of respect... Do you believe making tavares life pretty miserable to get him out of town will help you to keep key player like Matthews long term or convince player to come playing in Toronto?

Who said anything about respect? It's business.

If Toronto can actually build a great team that can win a cup, Matthews is more likely to stay, not less. And that's the move we need to make for the team to improve.

Alienation of the team's captain aside, having Tavares not play doesn't sound like much of a recipe for boosting trade interest from other teams.

Who said he'd be the captain by then?

 

[seventieslord]

Delusional. Yes just trade tavares at that cap hit… we hate that we are strapped with him but someone else would love him!!

Never said sometime else would love him.

 

[Hockeysawks]

Wouldn't happen to players who sign for a fair price and who perform well relative to salary.

I don't know who PM is.

There will always be players who want to come to Toronto. Always has been.

You think a UFA watches that happen, and says to himself, "Gee, I better not sign here. If I make too much money and I suck they'll try to trade me!!!" As if that wouldn't be a risk in 31 other cities! Give yer head a shake...

He is a point per game player that chose to play out his prime years and was given a legal contract that said we love you so much you have a 100% binding agreement that will will not try to trade you.
Yes I think it matters to guys that are able to pick from many different teams. I don't know why you think it would not factor into decision making.

 

[seventieslord]

He is a point per game player that chose to play out his prime years and was given a legal contract that said we love you so much you have a 100% binding agreement that will will not try to trade you.
Yes I think it matters to guys that are able to pick from many different teams. I don't know why you think it would not factor into decision making.

NMCs are rarely honored if the team insists. They're just a mechanism to ensure the player gets a say in where he ends up. Stop worrying about feelings, we're trying to build a winning culture here. Players who are attracted to that, will join us. Players who are only worried about making the most money and not being traded when they suck, will stay away. Good riddance.

 

[Donnie740]

Tavares is so bad, no one smart wastes their breath complaining about him. We know he's cooked as a player. With a NMC and 11mil. We're not trading him either.

Tavares is the “legacy” of Kyle Dubas in Toronto.

Absolutely HORRIBLE overpay for a guy who had never won anything in his life and clearly wasn’t needed when they already had a younger, cheaper, tougher and BETTER second kind centre in Kadri.

But those pyjama pictures of Little Johnny were so endearing, how could Dubas resist?

 

[Donnie740]

He is a point per game player…

Until the playoffs start and the games actually matter.

 

[Gabriel426]

Did Subban and Weber had a NTC or NMC on their contracts when they were traded for each other?

NMCs are rarely honored if the team insists. They're just a mechanism to ensure the player gets a say in where he ends up. Stop worrying about feelings, we're trying to build a winning culture here. Players who are attracted to that, will join us. Players who are only worried about making the most money and not being traded when they suck, will stay away. Good riddance.

Exactly. If the team is winning and willing to pay, players will come. Lets say we trade JT this summer, ofcourse there will be bad press but once the team start winning, it will become an after thought. And if the Leafs win the Cup next season, nobody will even care JT was traded and apparently forced out.

 

[rielledup]

Tavares is the “legacy” of Kyle Dubas in Toronto.

Absolutely HORRIBLE overpay for a guy who had never won anything in his life and clearly wasn’t needed when they already had a younger, cheaper, tougher and BETTER second kind centre in Kadri.

But those pyjama pictures of Little Johnny were so endearing, how could Dubas resist?

I think part of the problem might have been that they thought they were paying for early to mid 20's JT who was a legit super elite player in the NHL. JT finished 2nd in points one year and top ten in another despite not playing with any other legit top line wingers and was nominated for the Hart.

JT had a pretty steep decline after the age of 25 as far as where he ranked in the hierarchy of the NHL. He was still a very good player and legit #1 c, but not close to being the arguably top 5 player in the league he was at one point.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Tanenbaum is spineless and pathetic.

They are trying to shift accountability onto the players. Who's running this team? Is it Tanenbaum and Shanahan?

Or is it Auston and Mitch?

The fact they are all sitting there twiddling their thumbs because they don't know if the players will re-sign is pathetic. Since when did the future of the team become the responsibility of the players instead of management? No wonder the team is a loser.

It's just a reflection of the owner.

Loser owner.

Loser president. Loser manager. Loser coach.

Loser team.

 

[GreytWun]

Tavares is the “legacy” of Kyle Dubas in Toronto.

Absolutely HORRIBLE overpay for a guy who had never won anything in his life and clearly wasn’t needed when they already had a younger, cheaper, tougher and BETTER second kind centre in Kadri.

But those pyjama pictures of Little Johnny were so endearing, how could Dubas resist?

What about Dubas overpaying Matthews and Marner before they had proven anything either? Dubas made mistake after mistake not just the untradeable JT.

 

[Buds17]

Who said anything about respect? It's business.

If Toronto can actually build a great team that can win a cup, Matthews is more likely to stay, not less. And that's the move we need to make for the team to improve.


Who said he'd be the captain by then?

Remove the captaincy while having him remain with the team? Can't say I'm overly enamoured with that idea.

 

[thusk]

Who said anything about respect? It's business.

If Toronto can actually build a great team that can win a cup, Matthews is more likely to stay, not less. And that's the move we need to make for the team to improve.


Who said he'd be the captain by then?

If you making tavares trash to get him out of town, its not business anymore...

 

[Donnie740]

What about Dubas overpaying Matthews and Marner before they had proven anything either? Dubas made mistake after mistake not just the untradeable JT.

I completely agree - - the contracts for Matthews and Marner were terrible, but they were at least young players with their best days ahead.

Pyjama Boy was obviously on the downside of his career with ZERO upside.

The only thing worse than a soft skilled player is a soft skilled player who’s slow and old.

 

[IPS]

New GM needs to threaten to scratch Tavares every single game of the season if he doesn't waive his NMC.