The Core Has To Go

[Canadian Finn]

Yup. It’s all the mid age and older fans here that are tired of the BS. The kids here trying to educate us on patience and what a good team looks like need to STFU.

count me in the "too old and tired" for this team group....and all the BS that goes along with it.

 

[diceman934]

We need to trade a top player for a package of fast skating wingers with size.

Dubas has not done enough to build a team that can bang and our coach will not make changes to our line up to put size as a priority.

We also need more size on the back end.
Trade JT and Nylander and sign some free agents who play for keeps. Holl has size but can not skate he has bad feet. Said it in his rookie year.

Good bye shanny Dubas and Keefe

 

[Racer88]

How do you even get excited about next year with this crap core

 

[GoBuds14]

I actually think Matthews was good for portions of game 1/2 and has been legitimately a little snakebit (or his shot isn’t what it used to be?). He was no good yesterday however. I’d keep him and Nylander…. Marner has been such a disappointment, I legitimately don’t think he can be successful in playoff hockey at this point, he’d be the guy I look to move

 

[Thornbury]

We need to trade a top player for a package of fast skating wingers with size.

Dubas has not done enough to build a team that can bang and our coach will not make changes to our line up to put size as a priority.

We also need more size on the back end.
Trade JT and Nylander and sign some free agents who play for keeps. Holl has size but can not skate he has bad feet. Said it in his rookie year.

Good bye shanny Dubas and Keefe

Let's say it again slowly. JT has a full No Movement clause, so he isn't going anywhere.

 

[Trapper]

Let's say it again slowly. JT has a full No Movement clause, so he isn't going anywhere.

And on July 1st I believe Matthews and Marner have the same clause with a modified no trade clause for Nylander.
Looks like a Walmart roll back again.

 

[Stephen]

I actually think Matthews was good for portions of game 1/2 and has been legitimately a little snakebit (or his shot isn’t what it used to be?). He was no good yesterday however. I’d keep him and Nylander…. Marner has been such a disappointment, I legitimately don’t think he can be successful in playoff hockey at this point, he’d be the guy I look to move

Matthews and Nylander as a go forward is acceptable to me. Get a rugged centerman and put another elite defenseman on the blueline and I could see the shape of something different.

The downside is you can't renovate until JT is up, and AM and WN hit free agency first. So there's going to be an awkward bridge to the future unless you can dump Mitch.

The downside of dumping Mitch is it sets back the regular season program. And the guy who should really go on hockey merit is JT.

 

[GoBuds14]

Matthews and Nylander as a go forward is acceptable to me. Get a rugged centerman and put another elite defenseman on the blueline and I could see the shape of something different.

The downside is you can't renovate until JT is up, and AM and WN hit free agency first. So there's going to be an awkward bridge to the future unless you can dump Mitch.

The downside of dumping Mitch is it sets back the regular season program. And the guy who should really go on hockey merit is JT.

Ya I didn’t bring Tavares up since he’s here no matter what. But if Tavares is serious about contributing to a winning team here in Toronto, he resigns in 2 years on a very team friendly deal/discount where he can chip in as a winger.

 

[Stephen]

Ya I didn’t bring Tavares up since he’s here no matter what. But if Tavares is serious about contributing to a winning team here in Toronto, he resigns in 2 years on a very team friendly deal/discount where he can chip in as a winger.

Oh no, I'm not sure I want Tavares back under any circumstances in 2 years time. If the Leafs are something better in two years, it's not a retirement plan for anyone.

 

[pcruz]

I actually think Matthews was good for portions of game 1/2 and has been legitimately a little snakebit (or his shot isn’t what it used to be?). He was no good yesterday however. I’d keep him and Nylander…. Marner has been such a disappointment, I legitimately don’t think he can be successful in playoff hockey at this point, he’d be the guy I look to move

I'd say that a player who hits 3 posts/crossbars in 2 games is definitely snakebitten.

That goes for Matthews and for Tavares, who also has had his monthly dose of iron in the last 2 games.

In fact, Toronto has hit 7 posts the last 2 games.

The combination of mistakes instantly being goals against; Bob going Hasek; the posts; the general lack of effort is what's made this team lose 2 games by 1 goal.

They're right there for the taking, but for some reason the puck doesn't go in, and then it goes right in the other way.

All this doom and gloom is pathetic.

You people need to smarten up.

 

[GoBuds14]

Oh no, I'm not sure I want Tavares back under any circumstances in 2 years time. If the Leafs are something better in two years, it's not a retirement plan for anyone.

If it’s a team that has aspirations to win a cup, a guy like Tavares still brings a skill set, specifically in and around the net that that can contribute, this is assuming that he’s a secondary player on a reasonable deal. That being said, I’m not sure I can handle another 10 years of watching him look like he’s skating in a sandbox

I'd say that a player who hits 3 posts/crossbars in 2 games is definitely snakebitten.

Don’t forget that shot to open up game 1 that hit the knob of Bobrovski’s stick. He’s definitely had some great looks. Again didn’t like his game yesterday, but to me he’s been far better than Marner

 

[thewave]

Oh no, I'm not sure I want Tavares back under any circumstances in 2 years time. If the Leafs are something better in two years, it's not a retirement plan for anyone.

If they trade out Matthews or Marner I am ok with giving ROR a contract to stay. Matthews would hurt to lose but Marner not so much really, he doesn't score and goal scorers score anyways so long as they have a decent playmaker.

 

[pcruz]

Matthews' heatmap of events in round 1 were so well concentrated in the slots.

Comparing his with that of Marner and more so of Nylander, it's quite obvious who contributed more to the team in round 1.

 

[pcruz]

Now, round 2.


Matthews' heatmap is not as littered in front of his own net with blocks, but the green is still there in the slot.

Nylander is still invisible in his own zone, and looks a bit more concentrated to the slot offensively.

Marner's heatmap looks void in the offense. Lots of blocks, and a few hits, but there's just about no green, and it's so sparse that it tells a story of a player playing on the edges.

 

[Stephen]

View attachment 705154View attachment 705155View attachment 705156


Now, round 2.


Matthews' heatmap is not as littered in front of his own net with blocks, but the green is still there in the slot.

Nylander is still invisible in his own zone, and looks a bit more concentrated to the slot offensively.

Marner's heatmap looks void in the offense. Lots of blocks, and a few hits, but there's just about no green, and it's so sparse that it tells a story of a player playing on the edges.

It’s disheartening to see Matthews come into the playoffs making a difference, gets the tap on the helmet from Cooper and a week later it’s like they no showed vs Florida.

Just seems from all the history of no showing vs lesser competition, teams that forecheck hard and pack the slot, something went really wrong vs the Panthers.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

We need to trade a top player for a package of fast skating wingers with size.

Dubas has not done enough to build a team that can bang and our coach will not make changes to our line up to put size as a priority.

We also need more size on the back end.
Trade JT and Nylander and sign some free agents who play for keeps. Holl has size but can not skate he has bad feet. Said it in his rookie year.

Good bye shanny Dubas and Keefe

Want big fast wingers with size
Wants to keep little Mitch on the team

You're a funny guy.

 

[Squiffy]

I’m starting to understand why we’re the most despised team around. The sun comes up and we complain about it. It’s too bright, it’s too hot, it ruined my begonias.

I can’t wait for the reverse sweep.

Never use HFBoards to extrapolate on the general behaviour of a fan base. The lot of us are on the apex of the pendulum swing of fandom, we’re obsessed.

 

[seventieslord]

probably want to take one last crack at things with the core right now before shaking things up.

Taking one last crack at things with the core right now = losing Matthews for nothing as a UFA. Why would we do that?

 

[seventieslord]

I do not 100% agree with you.
If you trade more than one of the core guys, will you get equal talent back, probably not, but that doesn't mean you are tearing it down.

Lets look at an example. Buffalo trades Eichel. Pre-injury Eichel was not as good as Matthews but before he got hurt many thought he was a top 10 player/talent What do they get back? A first round pick. A guy (Krebs) who was a first rounder the year before. A 2nd round pick. Oh, and a former first round pick who was entering the prime of his career, one of the best forecheckers in the league and someone who just scored in the mid 30's for goals (Tuch). Buffalo did NOT get back any one player even close to Eichel's talent on paper, but what they got back was probably better than what they gave away. Its not easy to make a trade like that, but if you are going to trade Matthews there is no reason you can't get even more than Eichel got. He is going to command a very good NHL player or 2, a first round pick (or multiple ones), and maybe a legit prospect on the verge of making the NHL also.

I guess what I am saying is if you traded Matthews and Marner, how much worse is this team if in return you get 1 or 2 legit top 4 NHL defenders, and 1 or 2 forwards who score 10+ goals less per year but may bring something else to the team, AND possibly some future picks/cap space? I think you can take that team and ride it into the playoffs for the next few years.

Ottawa, Detroit, and especially Buffalo are going to be coming hard the next year or two. BUT, even if you made those moves I mentioned above they are not better thant he Leafs...while Tampa and Boston are aging/retooling also. Even if you don't get 'equal value' back initially, you can get a very, VERY good haul for those guys and use it to retool. not rebuild, this team.

Exactly.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Trade Matthews to the Hurricanes, get Pesce, one of Kotkaniemi / Necas, and at least one of their top prospects or a 1st round pick. That's a start. Then figure out if we're extending Nylander or letting him walk next summer for nothing or trading him. Rielly stays. Unfortunately Tavares stays, no choice. Then decide what the plan is with Marner.

 

[Squiffy]

Taking one last crack at things with the core right now = losing Matthews for nothing as a UFA. Why would we do that?

That's not certainty though at all, not that I'm advocating taking another crack at this with this group if/when we ultimately crash and burn here, but I don't see AM leaving at all. Players rarely move elsewhere on this contract, very very rarely, I think they sign him no problem if they make the offer.

Up to them to decide if they want to, thats the real question. Me, I would, specifically AM, the rest I am open to discussion.

 

[seventieslord]

Trading Matthews for low value because he only has one year left on his deal kind of makes me sick to my stomach.

You know what makes me sick to my stomach?

Losing him for absolutely nothing after he achieves absolutely nothing here.

Or, paying him 16M per year from the age of 27 through 34, to do even less than he did for us from the ages of 19-26.

Both of those things bring the bile right to the top of my throat.

That's not certainty though at all, not that I'm advocating taking another crack at this with this group if/when we ultimately crash and burn here, but I don't see AM leaving at all. Players rarely move elsewhere on this contract, very very rarely, I think they sign him no problem if they make the offer.

Up to them to decide if they want to, thats the real question. Me, I would, specifically AM, the rest I am open to discussion.

But why though?

 

[Squiffy]

But why though?

Why which? Why want to sign him again?

 

[seventieslord]

Why which? Why want to sign him again?

Yes, that.

 

[Squiffy]

Yes, that.

Well, we're in to opinion here. To me, because he's a generational talent that has continued to improve.. his physicality and defence has come miles over the years, battles hard, and scores like very few on this planet. He laid an egg with everyone else yesterday largely, but I think he's been excellent in general in these playoffs, and short of Reilly and maybe Knies I don't know that I'd say that of anyone else as a whole. Maybe Schenn. Obviously barring an all-time turn-around in the series we need some fundamental changes, but I wouldn't do him unless it is obvious in conversation that he's not interested. This is a kid from Arizona that has turned in to an elite NHL'er. His drive can't be questioned.