Speculation: The coaching search continues

[Do Make Say Think]

I understand the argument and agree that it makes sense in most situations, but surely there are exceptional cases - like Pierre Dorion - where the person in charge is such a disaster that the benefits of immediate change outweigh the benefits of continuity.

Not when the incoming people have had no exposure to any of the inner workings.

I would have loved for Dorion to get fired immediately but it was smart not to. He was a dead man walking but still had uses for the new bosses who didn't know a single person when they got there (to say nothing of Andlauer getting in just before the season started).

 

[flyingfingers]

I understand the argument and agree that it makes sense in most situations, but surely there are exceptional cases - like Pierre Dorion - where the person in charge is such a disaster that the benefits of immediate change outweigh the benefits of continuity.

These things happen across all types of businesses.

If you listen to the best leaders and CEOs out there, they'll always say that you're much better off being swift than delaying the inevitable.

When you know something is inevitable, cut people loose immediately, but with respect.

Don't let them twist in the wind.

Andlauer let both Dorion and DJ twist in the wind because he didn't want to be a "bad guy". It cost him his first season and a lot of credibility with customers.

 

[branch]

Great tanking hire for next season

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Andlauer let both Dorion and DJ twist in the wind because he didn't want to be a "bad guy". It cost him his first season and a lot of credibility with customers.

What is more likely, Michael Andlauer, a very succesful business man, did not want to be a bad guy; or he knew he needed Dorion to show him around and kept him around until he simply could not.

 

[Micklebot]

Ruff missed Hamilton the entire time, got better results, and was fired as the Devils were deemed a massive disappointment (true).

No? Hamilton played a third of the games Ruff coached,

Green came in and instead of a new coach bump during meaningless games, which most guys get, did even worse.

Basically did the same as Ruff was doing at the time of his firing, Ruff's last 21 games was 8-12-1, Greene was 8-12-1.

After a very poor track record in Vancouver.

But Stevey Staios said... this is the guy!

Look at the Devils board. They're thrilled he's gone. There's a reason for that.

Vancouver was a rebuilding team, Greene saw the typical progression you'd expect in the first three seasons, and in year 4 they had a long term injury to their top player in a shortened season, and Korpisalo level goaltending from their big UFA signing Holtby.

Fans really aren't great judges of coaches, I'm old enough to remember fans complaining about and being thrilled when Martin was gone, I remember Maurice being criticized as the leafs HC, and many more. Coaches are scapegoats, its normal for fans to blame them. I'd be far more interested in hearing what former players have to say about him,

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Green's results in Vancouver

17-18
26th in points
26th in GF
26th in GA
9th PP%
21st PK%

18-19
23rd in points
25th in GF
18th in GA
22nd PP%
11th PK%

19-20
18th in points
10th in GF
19th in GA
4th PP%
16th PK%

20-21
24th in points
24th in points
26th in GA
25th PP%
17th PK%

It's just... so so below average. A couple goes PP years, but other than that, brutal.



Ruff missed Hamilton the entire time, got better results, and was fired as the Devils were deemed a massive disappointment (true).

Green came in and instead of a new coach bump during meaningless games, which most guys get, did even worse.

After a very poor track record in Vancouver.

But Stevey Staios said... this is the guy!

Look at the Devils board. They're thrilled he's gone. There's a reason for that.

That’s not enough facts to have any opinion whatsoever apparently

 

[Flamingo]

Great tanking hire for next season

We can push out the 1st round pick forfeit to 2026, right? Let's just suddenly compete in 2025-26, then.

 

[flyingfingers]

Not when the incoming people have had no exposure to any of the inner workings.

I would have loved for Dorion to get fired immediately but it was smart not to. He was a dead man walking but still had uses for the new bosses who didn't know a single person when they got there (to say nothing of Andlauer getting in just before the season started).

The Ottawa Senators are not NASA.

There are plenty of of people that Andlauer could have hired that could have worked with the Melnyk estate and managed a quick transition while the operations kept chugging.

Heck, he was in "daily conversation" with Pierre Dorion for months before the sale was finalized, by his own admission. Then he had him onstage for champagne toasts.

That was his decision, and it was a bad one.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

That is literally the worst choice out of the 4 or 5 candidates I had heard about the Sens looking at. What has he done to suggest he can take over the reigns on a young team like ours and get them to the playoffs????

I'm baffled.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

What's crazy is if they had hired John Gruden or Todd Nelson, there would have been criticism, but there also would have been some "what if he's the next Bednar or Cooper" optimism. There'd be some excitement about the mystery box.

But Green? Everyone has seen what he can do. He was bad in Vancouver. The NJ fanbase and management (seemingly) wanted nothing to do with him after 21 games as head coach.

And this is the guy they choose? Just mind boggling.

Sure, there's a chance he becomes Rick Tocchet. But there's a much better chance that he becomes Dallas Eakins.

It's crazy how fast things move, but right now, the perception of this group is that they're a few guys sitting in a room trading penny stocks talking about how much smarter they are than the people over at Goldman Sachs.

You had Dean Evason, Todd McLellan and Claude Julien available. Are they slam dunks? No, no coach is. But their track records are way better than Green's. They would certainly command more respect from players than Green. And they'd buy you time with an agitated fanbase.

I'm stumped as to how they passed on those opportunities.

This move doesn't inspire confidence but I would really hate for management to make decisions on the basis of how the fanbase will react. Their only priority should be to win games, they shouldn't care at all about immediate fan reaction.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

It certainly can happen.

However we banked on it happening for a few years.

Maybe there just isn't that much upside to this core. We have some good players of course but the mix has always been a major letdown.

Maybe the issue is too much hoping based on work carried out by pathetic people like Dorion.

I think this core is pretty solid personally we just need a GM who knows how to build around it properly IMO

That means not having one of the worst 3rd D pairings and 4th lines in the history of the NHL! Also let’s not forget about for the most part 2 fringe NHL goalies.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So staios moves were… hiring himself as GM. Then bringing on good hockey man and one of the main men behind some of the darkest days of the Toronto maple leafs in Dave poulin. Waiting way too long to fire DJ. And now hiring Greene.

What is more likely, Michael Andlauer, a very succesful business man, did not want to be a bad guy; or he knew he needed Dorion to show him around and kept him around until he simply could not.

Many sports owners are successful businessmen lol. In fact most of them are. Doesn’t mean they know how to run a hockey team or how to win hockey games

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I think this core is pretty solid personally we just need a GM who knows how to build around it properly IMO

That means not having one of the worst 3rd D pairings and 4th lines in the history of the NHL! Also let’s not forget about for the most part 2 fringe NHL goalies.

Green loves Hamonic.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Does green have players that will go to war for him like Pyatt would for boucher?

Pyatt goes to the boards on a 2 on 1 so the answer is no

 

[branch]

We can push out the 1st round pick forfeit to 2026, right? Let's just suddenly compete in 2025-26, then.

I think so but we will probably suck in 2026 as well

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I think most of the optimism here is purely because Staios isn't Dorion and we 'want' him to be good.

This is a tremendously uninspiring hire. Quite frankly, absolutely nothing Staios has done has led me to believe he'll do a good job. Benefit of the doubt... just getting atarted... yeah-yeah-yeah.. It's time to show us something.

Waited way too long to act on Dorion. Waited way too long to act on Smith. Did nothing at all at the deadline or throughout the season to help the team either. Waited (too long?) to hire a coach. Now hiring a head coach that's on his third job without ever having any success. You can come up with some form of justification for all of those things but we're pretty close to forming a trend here.

My exact thoughts on Staios so far. Hasn't made a single move so far that's made me go "ok this could work out".

Yeah it's early still, but his hesitation on hirings, firings and roster moves, and now an incredibly "meh" coaching hire when there were many better candidates out there, has me very concerned.

 

[flyingfingers]

Fans really aren't great judges of coaches, I'm old enough to remember fans complaining about and being thrilled when Martin was gone, I remember Maurice being criticized as the leafs HC, and many more. Coaches are scapegoats, its normal for fans to blame them. I'd be far more interested in hearing what former players have to say about him,

Fan perception probably has a similar average as NHL GMs when picking coaches.

For everytime a fanbase is wrong about a hire (see Maurice in Florida) they're right about a hire (see DJ Smith in Ottawa).

All these ticky tack injury excuses are just that. They picked a guy with a sub .500 winning percentage over 5 seasons after talking about winning and best in class.

Maybe in 2 years they'll be right. But I wouldn't put money on it, just like I didn't put money on DJ Smith. Or Corey Clouston. Or Dave Cameron.

 

[Micklebot]

This move doesn't inspire confidence but I would really hate for management to make decisions on the basis of how the fanbase will react. Their only priority should be to win games, they shouldn't care at all about immediate fan reaction.

I mean, the fans desperately wanted Boudreau over Boucher, Boudreau went to the wild and did sweet f all, then to Vancouver and nothing there too, meanwhile we went to the ECF with Boucher, and he's apparently one of our coaching failures.

 

[Golden_Jet]

These things happen across all types of businesses.

If you listen to the best leaders and CEOs out there, they'll always say that you're much better off being swift than delaying the inevitable.

When you know something is inevitable, cut people loose immediately, but with respect.

Don't let them twist in the wind.

Andlauer let both Dorion and DJ twist in the wind because he didn't want to be a "bad guy". It cost him his first season and a lot of credibility with customers.

Firing Dorian on October 31, made zero difference on the season, if it happened October 1.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I think it’s important to have a coach with a winning record because if the team still sucks next year we won’t get an answer about how good our core really is because most of us we’ll say “well we’ve only had perennial losers coach this team for full seasons”.

There’s a time and place for risks, this isn’t it.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Maybe all the other coaches said they would require a goalie better than the worst goalie in the NHL? And Greene said no his structure would make korpisalo a .931 goalie

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I mean, the fans desperately wanted Boudreau over Boucher, Boudreau went to the wild and did sweet f all, then to Vancouver and nothing there too, meanwhile we went to the ECF with Boucher, and he's apparently one of our coaching failures.

The Sens would have hired Boudreau if Minnesota didn’t offer him a better deal.

 

[Micklebot]

Green loves Hamonic.

Well to be fair, he had him when he was still decent for the most part, he was regressing in his final years with Vancouver but has really fallen off the cliff here.

 

[branch]

My exact thoughts on Staios so far. Hasn't made a single move so far that's made me go "ok this could work out".

Yeah it's early still, but his hesitation on hirings, firings and roster moves, and now an incredibly "meh" coaching hire when there were many better candidates out there, has me very concerned.

Honestly Staios has sucked. He shouldn't be GM

 

[Micklebot]

The Sens would have hired Boudreau if Minnesota didn’t offer him a better deal.

Sure, maybe. Would it have been a good hire though? Did he do better in Min than Boucher did here?