The Case For Bringing Back The Core

[Notsince67]

I just talked about Willy hitting the deck. I know he is soft, he scores goals like Matthews scores goals though. I can get wingers to protect the goal scorers but what heck is this business about getting them to protect a playmaking winger. It's silly.

Play making winger can go and so can JT with his slow motion.

Sure. Vegas can trade Mark Stone for Nylander. Will ensure a dynasty for Vegas

 

[Racer88]

It doesn't exist.

Some games I wish it did. Lol

 

[horner]

With all the speculation about the money these players and with not have done anything yet.
I would rather trade them all and build a hockey team that plays for each other.
If any of these top players get hurt we are faced.
We don't even have a defenseman that can take a snapshot, other teams seem to have one defenseman that can .

 

[leafs in five]

No.The Leafs lost 4 games to 1 to Florida.

darnit

 

[Trapper]

See this is why you think Marner is the best and have all of these interesting takes. It's because you seem to act or LARP as an agent and not as a scout. Your history here has been one of talking up contract values for preferred players which is odd for a fan btw.

"On paper" is the best comment. That's where you show the clips of Marner coughing up the puck or getting rid of it quickly to get out of trouble, or better yet Nylander hitting the deck. We have a soft team and Marner is the softest, nothing changes as far as winning in Toronto until the soft is either mitigated or replaced.

Protip: You can't mitigate it with 40million dollars going to 4 soft forwards. Can never happen. You can however mitigate it for the sake of two 40 goal scorers if you like by addition of guys like Hyman to the wings.

Nice summary. On paper vs. Reality.

 

[NVious]

Vegas just won after bringing back the core. Funny how that happens.

LMFAO, did you actually just make the comparison of a core that went to the finals their FIRST YEAR together, then made massive changes to our losers who have won ONE second round playoff game in SEVEN YEARS? ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

[ToneDog]

By my math the Leafs would have been beaten so badly by Vegas, the series would only go 2 games

They probably would have left the ice in the third period of game 2 and left for the golf courses, beaches, and vacation destinations.

 

[Trapper]

They probably would have left the ice in the third period of game 3 and left for the golf courses, beaches, and vacation destinations.

Why play in the finals when you can just talk about how you would have beat everyone with the expected goals and the all-star players. The just pay them even more. Vegas is the foolish team. Is Eichel getting paid anymore in the next 2 years? Nope. Sucker.

 

[Notsince67]

LMFAO, did you actually just make the comparison of a core that went to the finals their FIRST YEAR together, then made massive changes to our losers who have won ONE second round playoff game in SEVEN YEARS? ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

I didn't expect YOU to know because you obviously know little of this game but Vegas missed the playoffs last year.
Duh. ROTFLMAO to you interweb children who think these kinds banal interactions give you some clout.

 

[hullsy47]

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I would agree with this approach because I’ve always viewed Dubas and Bozo the Keefe as being the biggest problems.

Having a competent GM who understands how to construct a roster that compliments the strengths of the core and compensates for the weaknesses of the core would be a massive upgrade for the franchise.

Having an NHL-calibre coach who can establish consistent line pairings, implement an effective scheme, make in-game adjustments and hold players accountable is something the Leafs haven’t had for the past half decade.

Bring them back .just expect no Sympathy when every talk show host fan blog writer just unmercufully crucify u NEW YORK STYLE

 

[Suntouchable13]

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I would agree with this approach because I’ve always viewed Dubas and Bozo the Keefe as being the biggest problems.

Having a competent GM who understands how to construct a roster that compliments the strengths of the core and compensates for the weaknesses of the core would be a massive upgrade for the franchise.

Having an NHL-calibre coach who can establish consistent line pairings, implement an effective scheme, make in-game adjustments and hold players accountable is something the Leafs haven’t had for the past half decade.

But there doesn’t seem to be a plan to get rid of Keefe even. So what exactly are they doing here? Getting a Tanev on D won’t make a difference.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Vegas just won after bringing back the core. Funny how that happens.

Vegas turned over more top guys than any other team in the league. They're relentless in their pursuit of making the team better, regardless of whose feelings are hurt. This is their reward.

 

[Notsince67]

Vegas turned over more top guys than any other team in the league. They're relentless in their pursuit of making the team better, regardless of whose feelings are hurt. This is their reward.

They ran back last years non playoff team

 

[Mess]

But there doesn’t seem to be a plan to get rid of Keefe even. So what exactly are they doing here? Getting a Tanev on D won’t make a difference.

Insanity should have its limits, of dong the same thing over and over again, however Shanahan has apparently told the core even before he hired a new GM, that they're all coming back (allegedly as per hearsay) and the coach might as well. That means by my math 2/3rds of the management problem still remains intact, however the Leafs coach may still fall and then I'll have to accept 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

However I'm already sleeping more peacefully knowing that bringing in Denis Malgin, Nicolas Aube-Kubel, Adam Gaudette & Zach Aston-Reese up front, and Victor Mete & Jordie Benn on D, and Matt Murray in net is not this years brilliant offseason plan, like it was last summer, thinking it was making the team better is behind us now.

But just think positively, how much better the Leafs would already be by simply bringing in Chris Tanev to replace Justin Holl (a former untouchable and expansion draft protection) player?

Hope is still alive and the offseason has just begun.

 

[Fogelhund]

Insanity should have its limits, of dong the same thing over and over again

As players, Matthews, Marner and Nylander all had their most complete seasons as players. Marner was probably the team MVP, and really stepped up his all around game, certainly his defensive game. Nylander had his best offensive season, and he too improved his game. Matthews improved so many areas of his game this year, physicality, defensively... it's a real shame that his shooting declined so much, and we can only hope that his wrists get fixed, and that issue doesn't become chronic going forward.

Tavares... had a decent year offensively, but his foot speed is hurting his 5v5 game, particularly defensively. That's a bit of a problem, particularly with his contract.

I doubt many people would argue that Matthews, Marner and Nylander aren't coming off their best years of overall hockey play. These are very good players, who improved their games in 2022/23.
I also doubt many people would argue that collectively, they weren't good enough in playoffs. That these guys are still improving, does give me some hope, that they can continue to improve. At this point, I think you are committed to continue teaching them what they need to do, to continue to improve those games, and in particular, what they need to do, to finally have success in the playoffs. To move out elite players, you aren't likely going to improve the team, except in very rare and lucky circumstances. For better, or worse, this team almost has to be committed to making this group work... continue to try and surround them with better support players, and a balanced team.

This team has been incredibly unlucky too. Injuries to Matthews nobody could have predicted... Amirov's cancer issue, nobody could have predicted... I mean that's a kid who should be in the lineup putting up 40-50 points. Then the Robertson injuries... another kid who should be putting up points...

Sometimes insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. Sometimes practise makes perfect, and eventually if you work hard enough, you perfect that which you are trying to do.

I'm not against changes, but sometimes staying the course, and building around it is wise too. I do hope that the players find a way to provide the team with more cap room to work with on their next contracts.... if Matthews wants $14 mil, we really need to decide where we are going.

 

[supermann_98]

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Having an NHL-calibre coach who can establish consistent line pairings, implement an effective scheme, make in-game adjustments and hold players accountable is something the Leafs haven’t had for the past half decade.

The problem is Keefe will likely be back and from what the hockey media is sepculating AND he'll be back with a fresh 1 year extension so he's not a lame duck coach.

 

[leafsfan5]

They ran back last years non playoff team

Yes, they had one year where they were destroyed by injuries so they didn't make huge roster moves. Even then, they made a major change by removing their head coach for someone they (correctly) believed would do a better job.

That's not even highlighting the fact that VGK has been tweaking their core for the years prior to that. Adding Eichel + Pietrangelo while moving off someone like Patches

I don't think that is very comparable to a core with 1 playoff win in 7 years

 

[Notsince67]

Yes, they had one year where they were destroyed by injuries so they didn't make huge roster moves. Even then, they made a major change by removing their head coach for someone they (correctly) believed would do a better job.

That's not even highlighting the fact that VGK has been tweaking their core for the years prior to that. Adding Eichel + Pietrangelo while moving off someone like Patches

I don't think that is very comparable to a core with 1 playoff win in 7 years

glad you agree

 

[geo25]

Honestly.... making Matthews the highest paid player in the league on a short term deal is a problem. He's not the best player in the league.

You look at that MacKinnon deal, yes, it makes him "overpaid" probably in years 1, 2, and 3; but then McDavid comes up for renewal with what is likely a $95m+ cap....

With Matthews, there is a "justification" for giving him $13.5m x 8 years, knowing that he's going to be less value than McDavid for years 1 & 2, but likely similar or better value beyond.

The problem is -- if the speculation is true -- he seems to be focused on ensuring that he's never really underpaid/ leaving money on the table, and somebody who has that mindset is one who doesn't prioritize winning. You can't win with guys who don't want to win badly enough to put their pocketbook towards it.... especially when the guy already has $55m in career earnings already.

Yeah, the guy is tough as nails in negotiating his contracts $$$ ....wish he was the same on the ice. Time to cut bait & wish him luck...

 

[Gaberd2608]

As players, Matthews, Marner and Nylander all had their most complete seasons as players. Marner was probably the team MVP, and really stepped up his all around game, certainly his defensive game. Nylander had his best offensive season, and he too improved his game. Matthews improved so many areas of his game this year, physicality, defensively... it's a real shame that his shooting declined so much, and we can only hope that his wrists get fixed, and that issue doesn't become chronic going forward.

Tavares... had a decent year offensively, but his foot speed is hurting his 5v5 game, particularly defensively. That's a bit of a problem, particularly with his contract.

I doubt many people would argue that Matthews, Marner and Nylander aren't coming off their best years of overall hockey play. These are very good players, who improved their games in 2022/23.
I also doubt many people would argue that collectively, they weren't good enough in playoffs. That these guys are still improving, does give me some hope, that they can continue to improve. At this point, I think you are committed to continue teaching them what they need to do, to continue to improve those games, and in particular, what they need to do, to finally have success in the playoffs. To move out elite players, you aren't likely going to improve the team, except in very rare and lucky circumstances. For better, or worse, this team almost has to be committed to making this group work... continue to try and surround them with better support players, and a balanced team.

This team has been incredibly unlucky too. Injuries to Matthews nobody could have predicted... Amirov's cancer issue, nobody could have predicted... I mean that's a kid who should be in the lineup putting up 40-50 points. Then the Robertson injuries... another kid who should be putting up points...

Sometimes insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. Sometimes practise makes perfect, and eventually if you work hard enough, you perfect that which you are trying to do.

I'm not against changes, but sometimes staying the course, and building around it is wise too. I do hope that the players find a way to provide the team with more cap room to work with on their next contracts.... if Matthews wants $14 mil, we really need to decide where we are going.

The issue is when they tie up so much cap, we cannot provide quality support players. We are top heavy with the 3 of them. They also provide zero heart or leadership. They remind me a lot of Kessel with their smirks and apathy.

They dont do themself any favours with the fanbase either by signing short term deals. If they signed 8 year deals at the same prices we would have time for the cap to increase and balance out so we can add other players. What they did was ensure we stay in this position where they take too much percentage of the cap.

What BT needs to do is meet with all 3 of their agents and say we can allocate x amount of percentage of the cap. If you need more one of you are going to need to move on. Let them figure out how they want to divvy it up and who the odd man out should be.

 

[geo25]

Eichel? Pietrangelo?

Pacioretty and Fleury were both a part of their recent core and were removed.

Vegas would turn their core upside down if they lost the way Toronto has. Their management group is aggressive and doesn't care much about feelings.

Wish we had their ownership group as well as Bettmen's blessing....

They probably would have left the ice in the third period of game 2 and left for the golf courses, beaches, and vacation destinations.

Or called in sick....

 

[Arzak]

The definition of insanity /the quote doesn't apply here since % and odds do.

At the same time, it's madness to expect better results with this core.
It's that bit of possibility / hope that makes this madness rather than insanity.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Problem is these few “important” players are essentially c$ck blocking the team from improving, while providing unsatisfactory results.

Except they're not blocking the team from improving or providing bad results.

 

[GoonieFace]

Except they're not blocking the team from improving or providing bad results.

So we can all expect them to leave a little money on the table to help improve the rest of the roster than? Also, to show up in the playoffs?

 

[ShaneFalco]

At this point, I think you are committed to continue teaching them what they need to do, to continue to improve those games, and in particular, what they need to do, to finally have success in the playoffs. To move out elite players, you aren't likely going to improve the team, except in very rare and lucky circumstances. For better, or worse, this team almost has to be committed to making this group work... continue to try and surround them with better support players, and a balanced team.

This team has been incredibly unlucky too. Injuries to Matthews nobody could have predicted... Amirov's cancer issue, nobody could have predicted... I mean that's a kid who should be in the lineup putting up 40-50 points. Then the Robertson injuries... another kid who should be putting up points...

Sometimes insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. Sometimes practise makes perfect, and eventually if you work hard enough, you perfect that which you are trying to do.

This is such a cop-out
They've been "learning how to win" for 7 years now. You can't teach hating to lose and playing with playofff intensity. They don't play as a team, they don't stand up for eachother and they're entitled. Keefe's go to answer - play them even more!!!
The unlucky thing - please!