OT: The Avalounge but every time someone posts the quality declines

[The Abusement Park]

quest is ehhh pretty good but nowhere near Wu Tang or J5 imo.

and m&m is good but not on the same tier as Tupac and Biggie.

dont get me wrong Infinite is phenomenal as is the mmlp and even Bad vs. evil is pretty solid. I loved Recovery more for the story it tells i guess than for any other reason. Everything after that complete garbage for eminem.

But for me the GOAT is Nas. That dude straight invented the wheel

I can definitely respect Nas as the GOAT, I think he’s infinitely better than Tupac. I think Tupac was a good story teller and had a good message, but I just don’t think he was mechanically a special rapper. He doesn’t manipulate words or have rhyme schemes like Biggy or Em.

I think Tribe is amazing, I love the jazzy feel that they bring. They’re just the easiest to just vibe to. I think NWA is great but they were bigger than their music which I think overrates them a tad. Regardless I love music discussions because everyone’s opinions are so valid.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

@The Abusement Park i agree Tupac lacked linguistic talent but more than made up for it with his superb lyrics and message. The thing about Eminem is ya he was an unreal talent at spitting but almost none of his good songs carried any meaning or poetic merit. Just shock factor

 

[The Abusement Park]

@The Abusement Park i agree Tupac lacked linguistic talent but more than made up for it with his superb lyrics and message. The thing about Eminem is ya he was an unreal talent at spitting but almost none of his good songs carried any meaning or poetic merit. Just shock factor

I’m gonna definitely disagree with you on Em. A lot of songs on his early albums were just pure shock factor, but I’d say in most of his popular songs, especially in the mid 2000’s. But that’s Em’s MO, his songs are either super deep, a complete joke, or meant to offend.

Songs like “Cleaning out my closet”, “Like Toy Soldiers”, “Hailies Song”, “Stan”, “Space Bound”, “Mockingbird” are just a few songs that have some sort of backstory to them. He paints a very vivid image of a lot of the things he went through, even in songs like “My Name Is” there’s parts where he spits more than just “funny rhymey” stuff.

 

[UncleRisto]

@The Abusement Park i agree Tupac lacked linguistic talent but more than made up for it with his superb lyrics and message. The thing about Eminem is ya he was an unreal talent at spitting but almost none of his good songs carried any meaning or poetic merit. Just shock factor

For a time, that shock factor was social commentary.

 

[The Abusement Park]

For a time, that shock factor was social commentary.

Also a very valid point.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I mean em raps about his daughter and things he went through but he never really trandescended personal issues into broader themes like most gifted poets are capable of doing. Don’t get me wrong he’s one of my favorites, I just can’t justify saying he’s one of the goats. Perhaps I just have different criteria with which I judge rappers and view their legacy than you do, and i suppose that’s the beauty of discourse and sharing opinions. Cheers to being able to enjoy great music and sometimes great hockey lol

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean em raps about his daughter and things he went through but he never really trandescended personal issues into broader themes like most gifted poets are capable of doing. Don’t get me wrong he’s one of my favorites, I just can’t justify saying he’s one of the goats. Perhaps I just have different criteria with which I judge rappers and view their legacy than you do, and i suppose that’s the beauty of discourse and sharing opinions. Cheers to being able to enjoy great music and sometimes great hockey lol

Like I said everyone’s opinion is valid

But I think there’s more to it than “he rapped about what he went through”. Like Risto said, there definitely was some social commentary on a lot of things that he raps about, which includes poverty and drug abuse. But regardless at least we can agree on Nas

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Yes and again my critiques of em is just stacking him against the best. I’m not saying it’s not there altogether. There are pepperings of it in his earlier work. Much more in his newer work

 

[UncleRisto]

Eminem had a different background and a different way of commenting on his youth in his raps, but the thing is, you can't compare his commentary with that of Tupac. How's Eminem going to comment on something like Brenda's Got a Baby does, where does that come from in his life? So he commented on American society, he commented on the media, (the profanity which some would deem pointless had a lot to do with this) and he reflected on drug use, abuse and fame. But it's the projects and the issues within the African American community where a lot of the things that are regarded as good storytelling come from, and he can't just go ahead and copy that.

What makes Eminem what he's thought to be today, is his rhyming though. Nobody used language the same way he did, and in such a colorful manner.

And while I haven't enjoyed his newest work, you can't disregard him on that basis, when we're comparing artists to those who died at 25 and put out three albums or five albums.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Eminem had a different background and a different way of commenting on his youth in his raps, but the thing is, you can't compare his commentary with that of Tupac. How's Eminem going to comment on something like Brenda's Got a Baby does, where does that come from in his life? So he commented on American society, he commented on the media, (the profanity which some would deem pointless had a lot to do with this) and he reflected on drug use, abuse and fame. But it's the projects and the issues within the African American community where a lot of the things that are regarded as good storytelling come from, and he can't just go ahead and copy that.

What makes Eminem what he's thought to be today, is his rhyming though. Nobody used language the same way he did, and in such a colorful manner.

And while I haven't enjoyed his newest work, you can't disregard him on that basis, when we're comparing artists to those who died at 25 and put out three albums or five albums.

Basically this.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yes and again my critiques of em is just stacking him against the best. I’m not saying it’s not there altogether. There are pepperings of it in his earlier work. Much more in his newer work

Out of curiosity what’s your list of the best rappers of all time? Like top 5 or so.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I hate Eminem. Like I hate him so much. But I'm also aware of how good he is.

Not a guy I ever want to listen to. Simply not my style. But he's probably the goat and I don't mind admitting that.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I hate Eminem. Like I hate him so much. But I'm also aware of how good he is.

Not a guy I ever want to listen to. Simply not my style. But he's probably the goat and I don't mind admitting that.

That’s how I feel about Tom Brady and the Patriots. I hate everything about them but respect how god damn good they are.

But yeah definitely get why people don’t like Em’s style, but he owns who he is and I love that about him.

 

[UncleRisto]

To be fair, Eminem's rise to fame is also a question of timing (opportunism) and unfortunately race. MMLP to me is unquestionably peak Eminem, and that he will never exceed, which also links directly to the society in -99 and 2000. I then grew up to the next two albums, which I love the same, but musically they're not the same to me.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Out of curiosity what’s your list of the best rappers of all time? Like top 5 or so.

That’s a brutal question. I couldn’t narrow it that far but I can say nas and biggie are head and shoulders above anyone else. Then a mix of about another 15-20 that I love in different ways

 

[LieutenantDangle]

On my list that most would overlook would be Talib Kweli and big L. Modern I love asap rocky, atmosphere, and Joey badass. You can see a theme here. Primarily east coast guys.
As far as groups go it’d have to be Wu Tang, bone thugs, and Jurassic 5

 

[The Abusement Park]

On my list that most would overlook would be Talib Kweli and big L. Modern I love asap rocky, atmosphere, and Joey badass. You can see a theme here. Primarily east coast guys.
As far as groups go it’d have to be Wu Tang, bone thugs, and Jurassic 5

Love Talib, he's one of the most overlooked rappers ever IMO. Atmosphere and J5 are great picks as well. Eric B and Rakim is a group I don't listen to a lot that I should, they make some great music. Also a big fan of the Beastie Boys, for a punk rock band they can rap pretty well.

Also I know what you mean about the east coast thing, for whatever reason I think they produce better rappers, for the most part.

 

[UncleRisto]

Also I know what you mean about the east coast thing, for whatever reason I think they produce better rappers, for the most part.

The whole thing originated in New York and there was no "East Coast rap" before the LA gangsta rappers in the 90's, when rappers from elsewhere started to differentiate in style. They emphasized the club/party vibe on the West Coast, while East Coast rap has been deeply rooted in the Bronx and the projects since forever. No question this shows in the numbers and the history. And to me, that background alone has produced some of the best rappers (see: Nas).

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Krs-one is great.

 

[Bonzai12]

Public Enemy and Dre/NWA should be in any rap conversation

PE was always my favorite. Their music never gets old.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The whole thing originated in New York and there was no "East Coast rap" before the LA gangsta rappers in the 90's, when rappers from elsewhere started to differentiate in style. They emphasized the club/party vibe on the West Coast, while East Coast rap has been deeply rooted in the Bronx and the projects since forever. No question this shows in the numbers and the history. And to me, that background alone has produced some of the best rappers (see: Nas).

Oh for sure. It's clearly an east coast thing. And the west has one of the best as well in Ice Cube, but overall more rappers come out of the east than the west so they generally will have the better rappers. But the average rapper to come out the east is generally better.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Public Enemy and Dre/NWA should be in any rap conversation

PE was always my favorite. Their music never gets old.

PE was the NWA before NWA was a thing. And while Dre was a good rapper he's an exponentially better producer than rapper.

And as far as groups go I can't believe I left out Outkast, I feel shame for that.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

André 3k yezzir. I’m not a big fan of southern rap but OutKast was great. And to a lesser extent TI

 

[ASmileyFace]

Easily his best album. so experimental and great. tell me you saw the movie that came with the deluxe edition when it came out? if not I'm gonna have to track it down and mail it to you

100% agree. I think MDBTF paved the way for nearly every "pop rap" album that was released in the past 8 years.

I think I've seen the movie. It's this right?

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Haha yep that’s the one!