The Advanced Stats Thread Episode IX

[Machinehead]

This thread has gone pretty quiet the last little while. I guess it's hard to debate anything when we all can see the Rangers stink.

Saw this on Twitter today. Not ideal, Neal.

Frankly, I'm exhausted.

I can't continue to explain to people why an awful player is awful. I just did it for ten years.

I can't believe this is happening again.

 

[Irishguy42]

Frankly, I'm exhausted.

I can't continue to explain to people why an awful player is awful. I just did it for ten years.

I can't believe this is happening again.

Yeah but bruh he's only played 50 games so obviously he'll get much better and you can't judge him PERIOD until he meets a GP threshold of my choosing so w/e man

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Frankly, I'm exhausted.

I can't continue to explain to people why an awful player is awful. I just did it for ten years.

I can't believe this is happening again.

What about guys like Klingberg and Gustafson who are worse on that chart than Pionk but have good Corsi

 

[Machinehead]

What about guys like Klingberg and Gustafson who are worse on that chart than Pionk but have good Corsi

If Erik Gustafsson was standing in front of me, I wouldn't know who he was, so whatever.

As for Klingberg, he's got good corsi and is outstanding at driving goal differential, so in his case, I don't care about little things here and there.

Let me know when Pionk does ANYTHING well.

 

[DanielBrassard]

If Erik Gustafsson was standing in front of me, I wouldn't know who he was, so whatever.

As for Klingberg, he's got good corsi and is outstanding at driving goal differential, so in his case, I don't care about little things here and there.

Let me know when Pionk does ANYTHING well.

That's the problem. Maybe you can get away with being bad in certain parts of the game when you are excellent at others. Pionk is below average in most areas of the game outside of shooting the puck.

 

[Machinehead]

These little micro-stats may have some predictive value and they have great explanatory value. If I were a coach, that's the type of stuff I'd use to work on things. I mean, you can't just tell players "go do corsi."

But as far as evaluating as a whole? It's a simple game. We like to tell ourselves it's rocket science on ice, but it isn't. Shots, chances, goals. That's hockey. If you don't do those well, you don't do hockey well.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I’m not defending Pionk or saying be actually does defend well in transition or at all but those stats in that chart are wonky.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Corey has only tracked 12 NYR games at this point, so these aren't full-season stats.

 

[Rempe73]

I don’t know if this counts as advanced stats or not, but I’ve been trying for the past hour to find a certain stat, and no luck. I’m trying to find the percentage of shot attempts that get on net, specifically for defensemen, since they are usually shooting from further out. Whether the shot ends up being a save or goal doesn’t matter. @Machinehead I know you probably know where I can find this. If so, that would be great.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don’t know if this counts as advanced stats or not, but I’ve been trying for the past hour to find a certain stat, and no luck. I’m trying to find the percentage of shot attempts that get on net, specifically for defensemen, since they are usually shooting from further out. Whether the shot ends up being a save or goal doesn’t matter. @Machinehead I know you probably know where I can find this. If so, that would be great.

I don't know that there is anyone who actually tracks that. Would have to be done manually. Best bet would just be to look at SOG/iCF.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I don’t know if this counts as advanced stats or not, but I’ve been trying for the past hour to find a certain stat, and no luck. I’m trying to find the percentage of shot attempts that get on net, specifically for defensemen, since they are usually shooting from further out. Whether the shot ends up being a save or goal doesn’t matter. @Machinehead I know you probably know where I can find this. If so, that would be great.

Shots on goal / Individual Corsi For * 100

if you're looking for leaderboards/rankings, I think you're overcomplicating it. The best defenseman at getting the puck through will have the most shots so you should be able to just look at SOG in that regard.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I don’t know if this counts as advanced stats or not, but I’ve been trying for the past hour to find a certain stat, and no luck. I’m trying to find the percentage of shot attempts that get on net, specifically for defensemen, since they are usually shooting from further out. Whether the shot ends up being a save or goal doesn’t matter. @Machinehead I know you probably know where I can find this. If so, that would be great.

As others have siad, I don't think there's a clear stat for that.

If you go on Natural Stat Trick, you can filter by position and SOG and iCF are right next to each other. You can set it overall or per 60mins.

I just looked at the Rangers. McQuaid is at .92 shots/60. lovely.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Just did the SOG/iCF ratio out of curiosity. NaturalStatTrick is easy to scrap.

Set for min of 100 mins on Dmen at 5v5

Tony D is 11th at 58.2%

Pionk is 71st at 50.4%

 

[Rempe73]

Just did the SOG/iCF ratio out of curiosity. NaturalStatTrick is easy to scrap.

Set for min of 100 mins on Dmen at 5v5

Tony D is 11th at 58.2%

Pionk is 71st at 50.4%

This is exactly what I needed. All I wanted to see was what percentage of DeAngelo’s shot attempts get on net, and compare that to the rest of the league. Because I remember that a poster actually posted this stat a few months ago.

 

[Rempe73]

Shots on goal / Individual Corsi For * 100

if you're looking for leaderboards/rankings, I think you're overcomplicating it. The best defenseman at getting the puck through will have the most shots so you should be able to just look at SOG in that regard.

Right, but I am not interested in possession stats. All I want to find out is shot attempt accuracy, and who the best d-men in the league are when it comes to getting a shot on net (whether it’s a goal or a save). I was thinking shots/60 would be an option, but obviously some players attempt more shots than others. And I would like a stat to account for that, if possible. I’m sorry. I think my wording is off. I don’t know how to explain it exactly.

 

[Rempe73]

As others have siad, I don't think there's a clear stat for that.

If you go on Natural Stat Trick, you can filter by position and SOG and iCF are right next to each other. You can set it overall or per 60mins.

I just looked at the Rangers. McQuaid is at .92 shots/60. lovely.

What’s iCF?

Also, like I said before, I’m not interested in possession in this particular case, so I don’t know if CF is the way to go.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Right, but I am not interested in possession stats. All I want to find out is shot attempt accuracy, and who the best d-men in the league are when it comes to getting a shot on net (whether it’s a goal or a save). I was thinking shots/60 would be an option, but obviously some players attempt more shots than others. And I would like a stat to account for that, if possible. I’m sorry. I think my wording is off. I don’t know how to explain it exactly.

Well Individual Corsi For is all the Shots a player himself attempts (regardless of it hitting the net) so my formula will give you exactly the stat you want. it's not a players on-ice corsi like I believe you think it is.

But I don't know of any websites that have it layed out and already calculated like that for you.

You'd probably have to do some work in Excel to get that. Like you could download a table from Corsica or some other side that includes shots and ICF and you could make a new column and tell it to perform the math (sog/icf * 100) and then it would give you what you are looking for. that is, the percentage of shots a player attempts that are on net.

What’s iCF?

Also, like I said before, I’m not interested in possession in this particular case, so I don’t know if CF is the way to go.

Individual Corsi For. All the shots attempts a player takes (incluing misses, blocks, SOG)

 

[Irishguy42]

What’s iCF?

Individual Corsi For.

It's regular Corsi, but for just that player

 

[Rempe73]

Shots on goal / Individual Corsi For * 100

if you're looking for leaderboards/rankings, I think you're overcomplicating it. The best defenseman at getting the puck through will have the most shots so you should be able to just look at SOG in that regard.

I know, but some players attempt more shots than others. For example, let’s say someone like Subban has 300 shot attempts and 150 of them are SOG (50%). And then let’s say someone like Josi plays the same amount of games and minutes as Subban, but takes less shots. Let’s say he has 200 shot attempts and 125 of them are SOG (62.5%). Well, the stat you mentioned will tell you that Subban is better at getting his shot on net, even though Josi is statistically better. He just had less attempts. I’m sure you already know this, but I just wanted to clear it up if there was any confusion, because it’s hard for me to word this.

Edit: I’m definitely overthinking it.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I know, but some players attempt more shots than others. For example, let’s say someone like Subban has 300 shot attempts and 150 of them are SOG (50%). And then let’s say someone like Josi plays the same amount of games and minutes as Subban, but takes less shots. Let’s say he has 200 shot attempts and 125 of them are SOG (62.5%). Well, the stat you mentioned will tell you that Subban is better at getting his shot on net, even though Josi is statistically better. He just had less attempts. I’m sure you already know this, but I just wanted to clear it up if there was any confusion, because it’s hard for me to word this.

I’m confused. Did you swap the names in your paragraph there?

If you’re looking at efficiency in getting pucks on net, Josi is better. Subban has a higher sample size.

 

[Rempe73]

Well Individual Corsi For is all the Shots a player himself attempts (regardless of it hitting the net) so my formula will give you exactly the stat you want. it's not a players on-ice corsi like I believe you think it is.

But I don't know of any websites that have it layed out and already calculated like that for you.

You'd probably have to do some work in Excel to get that. Like you could download a table from Corsica or some other side that includes shots and ICF and you could make a new column and tell it to perform the math (sog/icf * 100) and then it would give you what you are looking for. that is, the percentage of shots a player attempts that are on net.



Individual Corsi For. All the shots attempts a player takes (incluing misses, blocks, SOG)

Oh, I see. That’s actually perfect. I’m stupid. Thank you.

 

[Rempe73]

I’m confused. Did you swap the names in your paragraph there?

If you’re looking at efficiency in getting pucks on net, Josi is better. Subban has a higher sample size.

Wait, are you talking about in real life? Or in my example?

 

[Rempe73]

I’m confused. Did you swap the names in your paragraph there?

If you’re looking at efficiency in getting pucks on net, Josi is better. Subban has a higher sample size.

Subban has the bigger sample size, but that’s my point. If you just account for the amount of shots or shots/60, it doesn’t show who is the most efficient. Shots and shots/60 will say that Subban is better, even though Josi has a higher percentage, because that stat doesn’t take shot attempts into account. I’m saying why the stat is flawed.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Subban has the bigger sample size, but that’s my point. If you just account for the amount of shots or shots/60, it doesn’t show who is the most efficient. Shots and shots/60 will say that Subban is better, even though Josi has a higher percentage, because that stat doesn’t take shot attempts into account. I’m saying why the stat is flawed.

Got ya. I was reading your conclusion backwards. Long day.

 

[Rempe73]

Got ya. I was reading your conclusion backwards. Long day.

Yea that’s my bad completely