The 2024 TRADE DEADLINE Thread

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You quite correct, I should have thought about it longer, it was a while ago, can't blame Ned for those ones, but he did do his fair share of damage in the day, but I am sure it was ownership as much as anything.

Yeah Ned was definitely awful but I agree it's hard to know how much was also awful ownership.

And frankly Ned is worse for the Marcel Dionne trade alone.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If this team totally falls apart over the last half, you're right, a single big trade might just not be there, but I think we see some roster turnover we wouldn't have if the Wings come together and win a spot this year.

Yeah i just dont think the SY makes a big impactful trade "in the summer" mantra comes to fruition whatsoever.


I think teams by and large just make small incremental improvements throughout the calander year..

I think we, as fans, are simply setting ourselves up for disappointment with the, wait till summer then you'll see, thought process...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I keep thinking there were some other things behind the Oates trade than it being a pure hockey move. Should there have been more value in it? Yeah, but there might have been more issues around it.

I feel like here on hfboards I've heard some allegations of cocaine use or maybe an affair but I don't remember anything like that even being insinuated at around that time. Especially when you consider how far the team went to try and help Probert I can't see them shipping out Oates for a coke incident. And it's not like he had any problems on any other team.

And there's been some revisionist history that Ilitch forced the trade but no reason is ever given why he would do that. He's never really been a meddling owner. And Devellano has since said it was his fault and he regrets it.

My memory of the reasoning on the time is they felt they were disappointed after a first round loss and wanted to shake things up. It may have simply been an overreaction going for "veteran leadership" over an up and coming player.

 

[jkutswings]

Yeah i just dont think the SY makes a big impactful trade "in the summer" mantra comes to fruition whatsoever.


I think teams by and large just make small incremental improvements throughout the calander year..

I think we, as fans, are simply setting ourselves up for disappointment with the, wait till summer then you'll see, thought process...

I see the logic. But realistically, even using more of the Boston/St Louis approach to roster building, how do you project the success level of a roster with the following core: Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Debrincat, Edvinsson, Danielson, and Kasper (with some degree of contribution from ASP, Cossa/Augustine, Mazur, Johansson)?

To me that looks like a fairly routine second round exit kinda team. They'll make the playoffs and have a good chance at winning a round, but never be among the top handful of contenders.

The when is absolutely debatable. But it's tough to not think the talent level will eventually need another boost.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Yeah Ned was definitely awful but I agree it's hard to know how much was also awful ownership.

And frankly Ned is worse for the Marcel Dionne trade alone.

Yeah, that one really stung, but I did get to meet Marcel, one of neighbours (he knew I was a wings fan) for a few years played for the Kings and Oilers brought him by the house when he was in town for the Grand Prix. Seems like a lifetime ago now.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I see the logic. But realistically, even using more of the Boston/St Louis approach to roster building, how do you project the success level of a roster with the following core: Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Debrincat, Edvinsson, Danielson, and Kasper (with some degree of contribution from ASP, Cossa/Augustine, Mazur, Johansson)?

To me that looks like a fairly routine second round exit kinda team. They'll make the playoffs and have a good chance at winning a round, but never be among the top handful of contenders.

The when is absolutely debatable. But it's tough to not think the talent level will eventually need another boost.

The Stl approach is akin to copying the 1991 Minnesota North Stars approach albeit with two more wins...basically a Cinderella story..

Boston is much more interesting...they won the cup 13 years ago but have remained a regular season top contender ever since built on signing in free agency one of the most dominant defenders to ever play the game, drafting a franchise two way center in the 2nd rd and having a revolving door of the best netminder in the game for over 15 years...

Incremental improvements is how the DRW will return to being a relevant franchise

 

[odin1981]

But are we in a better place if we don't make the playoffs? At some point, fans have to stop blaming Holland. It's been 5 years. Enough time to put together a team that can make the playoffs. Not contend for the Cup or be a dynasty, simply make the playoffs. Really, are the Islanders more talented and have a plethora of superstars? We like our team, it's a men's league, just wait until all these prospects mature. We're lacking quality centers and have a bunch of small European Wingers Yawn. This story sounds familiar.

You fail to see how long it usually takes to tank. A successful tank is often 8-10 years with at least a couple lottery picks. We tanked for a short time and our depth is suffering because it takes 2-3 years easy for non top 3 draft picks to be ready for the pros.

Yes there are a couple vets that should leave, But we probably only have 3 guys pushing for a spot next year. A jo, edv, and bergg. Probably Kasper, Mazur, Danielson in 25-26. Most of the vet contracts except for copp and computer expire in 2 years. Whether you want to hear it or not the organization most likely doesn't feel the need to be a playoff team until around then.

With the exception of Kane all the vets are placeholders.

 

[Fynn]

I feel like here on hfboards I've heard some allegations of cocaine use or maybe an affair but I don't remember anything like that even being insinuated at around that time. Especially when you consider how far the team went to try and help Probert I can't see them shipping out Oates for a coke incident. And it's not like he had any problems on any other team.

And there's been some revisionist history that Ilitch forced the trade but no reason is ever given why he would do that. He's never really been a meddling owner. And Devellano has since said it was his fault and he regrets it.

My memory of the reasoning on the time is they felt they were disappointed after a first round loss and wanted to shake things up. It may have simply been an overreaction going for "veteran leadership" over an up and coming player.

Here's what happened, according to Jacques Demers. A drug dealer was arrested in Detroit and had a "little black book" that had Adam Oates' name in it. With all the drama surrounding the Bob Probert drug and alcohol use, the Red Wings brain trust got spooked and just wanted to get rid of him ASAP out of fear it would be another PR disaster if it was found that another star player had drug issues.

 

[Gniwder]

I would pay to give someone Ohio. I would pay dearly.

Canada is the obvious choice. Stevie is a f'ing moron for not trading Ohio at the deadline.

Can we package Art and Helene with Holl and send them anywhere else?

This too. Stevie sucks.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Here's what happened, according to Jacques Demers. A drug dealer was arrested in Detroit and had a "little black book" that had Adam Oates' name in it. With all the drama surrounding the Bob Probert drug and alcohol use, the Red Wings brain trust got spooked and just wanted to get rid of him ASAP out of fear it would be another PR disaster if it was found that another star player had drug issues.

Honestly I just don't buy that explanation.

Probert gets busted in March of 1989 crossing the border with cocaine. In spite of all his well-known drug and alcohol problems the Red Wings keep him on the team through 1994 but ship out Adam Oates that same off season because his name was in a book and they want to avoid drama?

(and I say that as a big fan of Demers as he brought the team out of the Dead Wings era)

 

[Oddbob]

I keep thinking there were some other things behind the Oates trade than it being a pure hockey move. Should there have been more value in it? Yeah, but there might have been more issues around it.

I think Oates was difficult to deal with contractually. Rules were different back then, and I know 3 or 4 times in his career he already had a contract in place, then someone else would get more and he would demand more money. One of the reasons he got traded so many times.

 

[Fynn]

You fail to see how long it usually takes to tank. A successful tank is often 8-10 years with at least a couple lottery picks. We tanked for a short time and our depth is suffering because it takes 2-3 years easy for non top 3 draft picks to be ready for the pros.

Yes there are a couple vets that should leave, But we probably only have 3 guys pushing for a spot next year. A jo, edv, and bergg. Probably Kasper, Mazur, Danielson in 25-26. Most of the vet contracts except for copp and computer expire in 2 years. Whether you want to hear it or not the organization most likely doesn't feel the need to be a playoff team until around then.

With the exception of Kane all the vets are placeholders.

Johanssen, McIssaac and Berggren are all 23 years old. If they're not NHL ready by now, that's a problem. Danielson and Kasper are 19 years old. Not seeing them being a season away based on that.

Honestly I just don't buy that explanation.

Probert gets busted in March of 1989 crossing the border with cocaine. In spite of all his well-known drug and alcohol problems the Red Wings keep him on the team through 1994 but ship out Adam Oates that same off season because his name was in a book and they want to avoid drama?

(and I say that as a big fan of Demers as he brought the team out of the Dead Wings era)

That's what Demers said. He told the story to Mitch Albom after he left the organization. He's usually a guy that tells it like it is. It's been long rumored that Adam Oates is gay. Don't know if that's true, nor do I care. But that may have contributed if it was true as times were a bit different then. But at the time, as good as Oates was, he wasn't Bob Probert and he wasn't the superstar he became in St. Louis. So I can see why they'd stick by Probert, but after all the legal issues not want to have to deal with it again.

 

[jkutswings]

Incremental improvements is how the DRW will return to being a relevant franchise

But you didn't answer the question. How do you see the team panning out via your suggested method?

If it's not eventually having a real shot at a Cup, then the rebuild is a failure. Being relevant isn't enough.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That's what Demers said. He told the story to Mitch Albom after he left the organization. He's usually a guy that tells it like it is. It's been long rumored that Adam Oates is gay. Don't know if that's true, nor do I care. But that may have contributed if it was true as times were a bit different then. But at the time, as good as Oates was, he wasn't Bob Probert and he wasn't the superstar he became in St. Louis. So I can see why they'd stick by Probert, but after all the legal issues not want to have to deal with it again.

I believed you about Demers saying it. It just doesn't add up. Oates was the 2nd line center behind Yzerman and put up 78 points in 69 games, third in points behind Yzerman and Gallant. As beloved as Probert was, Oates was much more valuable than a player who couldn't stay in the lineup because of his drug and alcohol issues.

There's the rumor that Ilitch forced the trade because Oates did something "untoward" in life outside the rink. That my be the reason but something like his name showing up in a coke dealers book doesn't seem like enough when you consider they had guys like Klima and Probert and other players with issues and kept them around. If the sexuality part is true I could definitely see that being a reason given the time period.

Trading away Oates AND Maclean is still staggering. Imagine a team packaging two of their top point getters in one trade???

 

[Fynn]

Well to be fair a decade is more than half of what it has taken and he started in the hole with the absolute abominable dumpster fire Holland left him...

Looking back at the last 5 Holland drafts, it produced NHL players Joe Veleno, Michael Rasmussen, Filip Hronek, Dylan Larkin, Anthony Mantha and Tyler Bertuzzi. Go back a few more and there's AA, Mrazek, Nick Jensen. To say that they had "nothing" is a bit of an over exaggeration. Believe me, no one hated Holland more than me and he had his share of failures, but to pretend like this team was completely void of NHL players isn't true. The inability to develop that talent may be the bigger issue and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out under Yzerman.

 

[PelagicJoe]

What if we gave them Cleveland?

That trade would be a steamer of a deal.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

But you didn't answer the question. How do you see the team panning out via your suggested method?

If it's not eventually having a real shot at a Cup, then the rebuild is a failure. Being relevant isn't enough.

How will the team pan out with incremental improvements? Well...I guess that depends how active and aggressive SY is in the trade market, how well he drafts, how well players develop AND equally as important, how willing he is to adopt all strategies on any day of the year..

 

[SirloinUB]

So having a day to decompress I’m relatively okay with how that played out.

Looking at most of the deals out there and I’m not sure I really feel like Yzerman missed out on much. None of these mid range rentals were what this team really needed.

If Yzerman could have flipped a dman I would have been very interested in a Hanafin trade + extension. Who knows if he would have accepted any of that though. Would a 1st 3rd and Wallinder/Johansson be a comparable package? If so I’d have done that.

Similarly Hertl at 6.75 would have been tempting. 1st + kasper and we get a couple 3rds back. I’m not entirely sold on Hertl due to the contract but he would have been a legit 2C behind Larkin for the next 3 to 4 years. Gets dicey after that but 6.75 is solid value.

Mittlestadt would have a good add but I’m not sure we could have matched that deal.

What would Guentzel have cost Detroit ? Rasmussen, Mazur, Buchelnikov, Johansson, a 1st & 3rd? Idk about that one

 

[SantosHalper]

Similarly Hertl at 6.75 would have been tempting. 1st + kasper and we get a couple 3rds back. I’m not entirely sold on Hertl due to the contract but he would have been a legit 2C behind Larkin for the next 3 to 4 years. Gets dicey after that but 6.75 is solid value.

That would have been a bad trade and him alone ain't making Wings a cup contender. Defense would need a massive improvement, Ed is just starting and ASP is 3-4 years away and 3-4 years from now Hertl is 33-34. Timeline doesn't match.

 

[Oddbob]

Looking back at the last 5 Holland drafts, it produced NHL players Joe Veleno, Michael Rasmussen, Filip Hronek, Dylan Larkin, Anthony Mantha and Tyler Bertuzzi. Go back a few more and there's AA, Mrazek, Nick Jensen. To say that they had "nothing" is a bit of an over exaggeration. Believe me, no one hated Holland more than me and he had his share of failures, but to pretend like this team was completely void of NHL players isn't true. The inability to develop that talent may be the bigger issue and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out under Yzerman.

The team was devoid of winning talent aside from Larkin, Bert and Hronek. Ras is only now doing something and Veleno is what he is. Mantha and AA were floaters who are proving we are missing nothing since they left. Nick Jensen is a 4th-5th d at best, and Mrazek has as many bad games as good games. Yzerman was left with as little talent as any GM has been left with in some time. Then add all the bad contracts that were left here for Yzerman to wait out. Most of the last of Holland's drafting resulted in nothing of note for the most part.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

The team was devoid of winning talent aside from Larkin, Bert and Hronek. Ras is only now doing something and Veleno is what he is. Mantha and AA were floaters who are proving we are missing nothing since they left. Nick Jensen is a 4th-5th d at best, and Mrazek has as many bad games as good games. Yzerman was left with as little talent as any GM has been left with in some time. Then add all the bad contracts that were left here for Yzerman to wait out. Most of the last of Holland's drafting resulted in nothing of note for the most part.

Our best player was a KH draft pick...

While I agree KH was awful towards the end let's at least see If SYs picks(and those made in 24 and 25) go on to do significantly better in the NHL then Bert, Hronek, Tatar, Nyquist and Mantha.. those guys have all had real NHL careers..that's not easy and no guarantee SYs picks manage that

 

[Snuggs]

No one said one word about Holland 10-15 days ago.

TDL passes and Red Wings suck along with the savior prospect...

It's ok, hopefully Yzerman see's what some of us do in that we need top, legit top talent.

Won't hold my breathe but would be nice to see a major trade.

Likely it'll be draft, stash, and repeat for however long the "media" decides it's tired of giving Yzerman a straight pass.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

No one said one word about Holland 10-15 days ago.

TDL passes and Red Wings suck along with the savior prospect...

It's ok, hopefully Yzerman see's what some of us do in that we need top, legit top talent.

Won't hold my breathe but would be nice to see a major trade.

Likely it'll be draft, stash, and repeat for however long the "media" decides it's tired of giving Yzerman a straight pass.

Who was the savior prospect? Also I think he knows this. What's a legit top talent for you?

 

[Snuggs]

Who was the savior prospect? Also I think he knows this. What's a legit top talent for you?

Berggren.


Jason Zucker.... lol, does it matter what I think? Lately when posters ask this question its mostly rhetorical and they have a loaded argument ready for my response.

EDIT* TBH with people here I'm just upset cause I spent a lot of time watching and going to games this year, thought since november they're a playoff team, thought they'd add(something) but really wanted Hanifin. Walking into TDL I was really scared for the team if no moves were made and well my nightmare is becoming reality here and it's snowballing and this forum the only place I can whine like a little bitch, lol. It really felt like the party was over when Colorado "exposed" the team imo(for me). For the first time this season I actually feel like they're going to pick 12-14 and miss the playoffs.

It was fun for most the year and now is just draining for me, lol, I have to step back and be way more casual.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Berggren.


Jason Zucker.... lol, does it matter what I think? Lately when posters ask this question its mostly rhetorical and they have a loaded argument ready for my response.

EDIT* TBH with people here I'm just upset cause I spent a lot of time watching and going to games this year, thought since november they're a playoff team, thought they'd add(something) but really wanted Hanifin. Walking into TDL I was really scared for the team if no moves were made and well my nightmare is becoming reality here and it's snowballing and this forum the only place I can whine like a little bitch, lol. It really felt like the party was over when Colorado "exposed" the team imo(for me). For the first time this season I actually feel like they're going to pick 12-14 and miss the playoffs.

It was fun for most the year and now is just draining for me, lol, I have to step back and be way more casual.

I wasn't trying to be condescending, I was actually interested in what a top talent is in your opinion. One person would say another Larkin, while others a Mackinnon. As you know there is a big gap there.


I don't blame anyone for being upset, because I am as well.