The 2024 TRADE DEADLINE Thread

[SantosHalper]

I believe those are approximate numbers. Still to be a serious contender you need 2-3 star forwards, 2 1st pair D logging 22+ minutes a game and a reliable goalie. You can find these in any Stanley Cup winner.

As of now we have 1 F and 1 D. Will probably get G (Cossa/Augustine) and another D (Ed/ASP/Wallinder).

We don't have offense at all. I mean completely. Those thinking Raymond, Danielsson, Kasper may become even remotely close to say Stone or Point are delusional.

What defines a "star"? Scoring? Draft overall number? Trophies? Stanley Cup victory? Or all the above? McDavid and Matthews are considered as stars, they have the draft overall number, scoring and trophies but neither of them haven't been near of even playing in the finals.

Point, a 3rd round pick who was still playing in the juniors in his D+2 year but that didn't stop him becoming a star. Same story with Stone, a 6th round pick and no one considered that he becomes a star when he was playing his D+4 year in AHL. Let me even throw in Marchessault, undrafted but consistent 60-point guy and a Cup/Conn Smythe winner, thats something what the mega stars haven't be able to do so far. Is Marchessault a star? He managed to become one after he spent 4 years in AHL. And we have examples of our own Datsyuk and Zetterberg, no one considered that they become stars 2 years after they were drafted. And there are more examples, who weren't stars when they got drafted but became stars anyway.

Ray was drafted just 4 years ago, Kasper 2 years ago and Danielson 1 year ago. So how about if we give them time and see what we really got. Our prospects haven't even hit their prime yet.

We have no offense? Come on huh, 13 players have scored +10 goals and Seider is 3 away, and there is 18 games left. And Wings have 8th most goals in NHL.

Hockey is a team sport, all the McDrais and Leafs Big 4 don't take you to the cup victory unless the team is deep and well roled.

 

[Dotter]

Top end goalies? Like who? Ned flamed out, so has Husso, jury still out on Lyon.

Ben Bishop and then Andrei Vasilevskiy.

Also you know Sergei Bobrovsky's type do come along as UFA if that ever becomes necessary. If Cossa or Augustine don't work out.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

My bigger point is that if you’re going to stick to a dogmatic (even approximate numbers) thing of we need two PPG+ Cs, another near PPG forward, multiple 22-25 minute runs D who play stellar D and score a lot and a stud goalie, your barometer is like a dozen teams in league history.

That’s not a fair expectation in team building

The Wings still need more talent, yes. But they have the hope for that in Grand Rapids right now

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

The Wings need another center option to take the heat off Larkin and cover for him during injury. If you take Petterson off Vancouver, McDavid off Edmonton, Matthews off Toronto, those teams are all f***ed. We are no different, except that we have even worse center depth.

Our most important players have almost no experience in the playoffs, or even getting to the playoffs.

Our coach has no idea how to manage team mood and motivation. It seems like he always manages to find the absolute worst thing to say during press conferences.

Yzerman told the team he doesn't think they have a chance in the playoffs by making no moves to address obvious weaknesses.

All of these are a recipe for collapse. Yzerman is operating on a timeline that is years slower than what we want. It sucks but we can't do anything about it. He has no pressure because you can't fire Steve f***ing Yzerman in Detroit. Hopefully his plan works out.

Once Danielson and Kasper are on the team (I hope next year) we will hopefully have a true 2c on the roster. The nice thing about those guys is they both play with energy and grit and they are both leaders. None of our young guys have that. I think having them on the roster is going to transform the team. Unfortunately, it will take one of them 2-3 years to transform into that steady presence.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What defines a "star"? Scoring? Draft overall number? Trophies? Stanley Cup victory? Or all the above? McDavid and Matthews are considered as stars, they have the draft overall number, scoring and trophies but neither of them haven't been near of even playing in the finals.

Point, a 3rd round pick who was still playing in the juniors in his D+2 year but that didn't stop him becoming a star. Same story with Stone, a 6th round pick and no one considered that he becomes a star when he was playing his D+4 year in AHL. Let me even throw in Marchessault, undrafted but consistent 60-point guy and a Cup/Conn Smythe winner, thats something what the mega stars haven't be able to do so far. Is Marchessault a star? He managed to become one after he spent 4 years in AHL. And we have examples of our own Datsyuk and Zetterberg, no one considered that they become stars 2 years after they were drafted. And there are more examples, who weren't stars when they got drafted but became stars anyway.

Ray was drafted just 4 years ago, Kasper 2 years ago and Danielson 1 year ago. So how about if we give them time and see what we really got. Our prospects haven't even hit their prime yet.

We have no offense? Come on huh, 13 players have scored +10 goals and Seider is 3 away, and there is 18 games left. And Wings have 8th most goals in NHL.

Hockey is a team sport, all the McDrais and Leafs Big 4 don't take you to the cup victory unless the team is deep and well roled.

Draft position is irrelevant and to be fair nobody said anything to the contrary...

Typically players with awards and trophies also produced big numbers and not many teams ever win w/o any teammates who produce...

The discussion was about what the team needs in order to win(or hope to win) and the debate is about how and when SY and co manage to meet those needs.. nobody said our prospects arent good...they are...but it's going to be 5 more years before Kasper, Danielson or Edvinsson are reliable elite producing players or Cossa is a high end #1 goalie..that's not meant to slight them or doubt them but rather an honest evaluation of how hard it is to achieve that status in the NHL..

My bigger point is that if you’re going to stick to a dogmatic (even approximate numbers) thing of we need two PPG+ Cs, another near PPG forward, multiple 22-25 minute runs D who play stellar D and score a lot and a stud goalie, your barometer is like a dozen teams in league history.

That’s not a fair expectation in team building

The Wings still need more talent, yes. But they have the hope for that in Grand Rapids right now

Which of the top teams, excluding injuries, dont have 2 players over 80 pts and a 3rd around 70 plus a 50pt dmen and another hovering around and a top goalie?

 

[jkutswings]

nobody said our prospects aren't good...they are...but it's going to be 5 more years before Kasper, Danielson or Edvinsson are reliable elite producing players or Cossa is a high end #1 goalie..that's not meant to slight them or doubt them but rather an honest evaluation of how hard it is to achieve that status in the NHL.

100 percent agree.

Often this board criticizes how Seider is playing in his third year, while simultaneously expecting that Edvinsson should already be a full time player because he could easily outperform half the veterans.

I really really like several of the kids. Some should be getting NHL games within the next few weeks. But if Yzerman actually plans to tread water until all or nearly all those kids are both ready and kicking ass in the NHL, then with how often Larkin is getting banged up, their window of contention will be 1-2 years before Dylan either gets bought out or hits LTIRetirement.

Being THAT patient still has a chance of working. But in that situation, Seider and Raymond might be the only guys of the "new team", and it makes watching the current product a whole lot less fulfilling. I'd much rather try to swing a hockey trade or two, get the current roster good enough to at least win a couple of playoff rounds, and hope that one or more of the kids out kick the coverage on their development timeline, to help keep things going.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

So that bullshit trade for Guentzel has me a little angry Yzerman didn't try beating that.

2nd (turns to 1st if Carolina makes the final)
5th
Bunting's salary
Cruz Lucious
Ville Koivunen

AND Guentzel had salary retained.

To me, Detroit' 1st and Cross Hanas would have been a better deal. Or a 2nd, Fabbri and Johansson/Wallinder.

 

[Gniwder]

Which of the top teams, excluding injuries, dont have 2 players over 80 pts and a 3rd around 70 plus a 50pt dmen and another hovering around and a top goalie?

Top players for Vegas last season had 66, 65, and 57.

 

[norrisnick]

So that bullshit trade for Guentzel has me a little angry Yzerman didn't try beating that.

2nd (turns to 1st if Carolina makes the final)
5th
Bunting's salary
Cruz Lucious
Ville Koivunen

AND Guentzel had salary retained.

To me, Detroit' 1st and Cross Hanas would have been a better deal. Or a 2nd, Fabbri and Johansson/Wallinder.

Yeah, but then you have to sign Guentzel.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah, but then you have to sign Guentzel.

And we didn't have Bunting, who is Dubas' best buddy since the junior league days.

 

[Henkka]

That Carolina cap situation isn't any favourable either. They are gonna lose at least 1 quality player like Teräväinen, maybe Pesce too, if they'll sign Guentzel. Necas and Jarvis are getting big raises.

Evolving-hockey shows 9.25M estimate for Guntzel with 6-year deal.

Think the estimate was same for Filip Forsberg 2 off-seasons ago, and as for winger it finally was 8.5M.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yzerman's comments about Klim being traded seemingly make it obvious that Holl is getting bought out this summer.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Top players for Vegas last season had 66, 65, and 57.

Yes you're correct..though Eichel had 66 in 67 games (I think I said exclude injuries and prorate) as I would not hold an injury against he or anyone(Larkin included)..

 

[Dotter]

Yes you're correct..though Eichel had 66 in 67 games (I think I said exclude injuries and prorate) as I would not hold an injury against he or anyone(Larkin included)..

Well shoot, we got a 80-point player in Patty Kane then!

 

[Twinger]

Draft position is irrelevant and to be fair nobody said anything to the contrary...

Typically players with awards and trophies also produced big numbers and not many teams ever win w/o any teammates who produce...

The discussion was about what the team needs in order to win(or hope to win) and the debate is about how and when SY and co manage to meet those needs.. nobody said our prospects arent good...they are...but it's going to be 5 more years before Kasper, Danielson or Edvinsson are reliable elite producing players or Cossa is a high end #1 goalie..that's not meant to slight them or doubt them but rather an honest evaluation of how hard it is to achieve that status in the NHL..


Which of the top teams, excluding injuries, dont have 2 players over 80 pts and a 3rd around 70 plus a 50pt dmen and another hovering around and a top goalie?

A big part of winning a cup to is time line. But realistically with those 3 coming up on a 5 year timeline Larkin will be 32. I'm not saying he'll be washed up but around that age is when players start to decline. It may not be a massive decline but prime scoring years are 24-29.

If we're looking at the past 5 finals I would say we're most like Vegas and st Louis type model. Montreal seemed pretty flukey and Dallas seemed to get hot at the right time. We don't have that star power of Tampa, Colorado, Boston and Florida

Also a lot of luck with either a hot goalie, a career year, rookie contracts exceeding expectations.

I was fine standing pat at the deadline this year but moving forward I don't see this team competing with this roster.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Well shoot, we got a 80-point player in

Come on man lets give our head a shake...we all consider Larkin a 80pt player even though he has never done it(injuries)

 

[Dotter]

Which of the top teams, excluding injuries, dont have 2 players over 80 pts

Great. Using that logic, Wings have two 80-point players in Kane and Larkin then. We're golden. Raymond is your 70-point player.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Great. Using that logic, Wings have two 80-point players in Kane and Larkin then. We're golden. Raymond is your 70-point player.

Sweet I suppose we'll win the cup or you'll be calling for SYs resignation? Unless..no..nah

 

[Dotter]

Sweet I suppose we'll win the cup or you'll be calling for SYs resignation? Unless..no..nah

I'm not the one claiming you need two 80-point players and a 70-point player. Just saying, using your logic, we have them.

Now you're saying "yeah we have them but that doesn't mean anything!"

So which is it? Do you need them or not?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I'm not the one claiming you need two 80-point players and a 70-point player. Just saying, using your logic, we have them.

Now you're saying "yeah we have them but that doesn't mean anything!"

So which is it? Do you need them or not?

We dont have them..

My point regarding injuries was to protect against a scenario in which a McDavid played 40 games and garnered 70pts..nobody would say he isnt a 80pt player..the whataboutisms are a but much.

The DRW do not have enough high end let alone elite talent... I hope one day Danielson, SE or Kasper join Seider (and Raymond) in that group but typically it takes 300 to 400 NHL games to reach that outside of generational superstars..

Yes sometimes a team of average joes(Stl) go on to win, I agree, but that isnt a recipe to emulate as they disappeared as quickly as they came about..

You need elite talent to win championships...its why we won in 97, 98, 02 and 08

If somebody wants to say our current roster equals Vegas then by all means, articulate and defend that..

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That Carolina cap situation isn't any favourable either. They are gonna lose at least 1 quality player like Teräväinen, maybe Pesce too, if they'll sign Guentzel. Necas and Jarvis are getting big raises.

Evolving-hockey shows 9.25M estimate for Guntzel with 6-year deal.

Think the estimate was same for Filip Forsberg 2 off-seasons ago, and as for winger it finally was 8.5M.

Guentzel will go for 7.75-8.5 most likely.

If Detroit could dump Fabbri I gladly make this signing.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

We dont have them..

My point regarding injuries was to protect against a scenario in which a McDavid played 40 games and garnered 70pts..nobody would say he isnt a 80pt player..the whataboutisms are a but much.

The DRW do not have enough high end let alone elite talent... I hope one day Danielson, SE or Kasper join Seider (and Raymond) in that group but typically it takes 300 to 400 NHL games to reach that outside of generational superstars..

Yes sometimes a team of average joes(Stl) go on to win, I agree, but that isnt a recipe to emulate as they disappeared as quickly as they came about..

You need elite talent to win championships...its why we won in 97, 98, 02 and 08

If somebody wants to say our current roster equals Vegas then by all means, articulate and defend that..

Our current roster reminds me of 2022-23 Seattle.

Replace Vince Dunn on D with Seider and Larkin is better than Beniers as top center. The rest is constructed similarly. McCann/DBC, Compher/Gourde, Eberle/diminished Kane, Sprong/Sprong, etc.

 

[Bench]

Guentzel will go for 7.75-8.5 most likely.

If Detroit could dump Fabbri I gladly make this signing.

Pavel Buchnevich is the guy to watch in the off-season.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Pavel Buchnevich is the guy to watch in the off-season.

I’d love to have him too, but he’s got another year I think. I don’t expect St. Louis to trade him cheap.

 

[Frk It]

Guentzel will go for 7.75-8.5 most likely.

If Detroit could dump Fabbri I gladly make this signing.

Hard pass.

I also doubt he hits the market.