The 2022 Hockey Hall Of Fame

[Kyle McMahon]

It's honestly a bit jaw-dropping to me.

Especially the Sedins. Like, these guys are absolute slam-dunk HHOFers. There shouldn't have been an argument in the world. They're 1000+ point one-team guys with MVPs/scoring titles/Pearsons who are the most important players in the history of a franchise and as people were amongst the biggest class acts in NHL history. These aren't fringe candidates. These are solidly mid-level HHOFers. There is nobody in the history of the sport with similar careers (one-team players with big career numbers and an MVP-level peak) who didn't cakewalk into the HHOF.

I don't know if the East Coast was asleep and missed their entire careers? Or it's lingering anti-Canuck bias from 2011? Or if this strange need to bully and ridicule them that they seem to bring out in people didn't die with their retirement? Or if people just don't understand where the HHOF standards sit. But it's ridiculous.

I think this an important point. The HOF standards have simply never been very lofty. Even serious and level-headed fans of the game who are simply not overtly history-minded would be surprised by some of the guys who are in there. In my experience, a "Hall of Famer" in the minds of many fans is a guy who was one of the absolute best in the game for a number of years, and if he wasn't, he better have been pretty damn good while winning Cup(s) and hit some big career statistical milestones. This kind of fan (which is fairly typical, I think), just doesn't really know about all the Hall of Famers from previous eras that fell well short of the benchmark they've set in their own mind.

You can probably find 10-15 year old posts of mine criticizing inductions like Mats Sundin, laughing off the idea that Mark Recchi was a future HOFer, or wondering what Larry Murphy ever did to warrant consideration. Because in my mind, the Hall of Fame was for guys like Sakic, Lidstrom, and Brodeur, and most of the inductees from before my time must also have been that good, or close to it. Eventually I came to realize that, no, guys like Bill Barber, Eddie Giacomin, and Leo Boivin were definitely not that good, and that probably half the guys ever inducted into the HOF would not have struck me as such had I actually witnessed them during their careers.

I'm sure in another 30 years when Sedin-level players are being inducted, people will criticize those guys as not measuring up to the HOF "standard" set by Kane, Malkin, and Hedman. They'll be largely unaware of players like Andreychuk, Zubov, and Carbonneau, or just assume that they were greater than they really were.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Wait, are you seriously saying an individual Sedin brother is more Hall-of-Fame worthy than Mats Sundin??

When accounting for era the Sedin's peaks were certainly better than anything Sundin accomplished, but Mats definitely has a clear edge in career consistency.

I did notice you say that the Sedin's were borderline HOF players, and I can't agree with that. Out of the three, I feel Sundin should have been the borderline player to make first ballot. I remember being surprised when he was inducted so quickly. I think if he played for Carolina his entire career he may have waited quite a few years. He was an incredible player with a knack for big moments, and a model of consistency. But I also believe his spot in hockey history has a lot to do with he colours of his NHL jersey.

Even individually both the Sedin's resumes are first ballot slam dunks. It's also important to remember they played 11 of their 17 seasons in two of the lowest scoring eras. Sundin on the other hand only played 8 out of his 18 seasons in the dead puck era.


Daniel Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Lindsay)
1x Hart Finalist
1x First Team All-Star
1x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
1x King Clancy
2x Top 10 Finishes
4x 30+ Goal Season
1x 40+ Goal Season
4x PPG Season
1041 points

Henrik Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Hart)
2x First Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
2x King Clancy
3x Top 10 Finishes
3x Led league in assists
3x PPG Season
1070 points

Mats Sundin

2x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold
3x Word Championship Gold
2x Top 10 Finishes
13x 30+ Goal Season
3x 40+ Goal Season
11x PPG Season
564 Goals
1349 Points

 

[sr edler]

When accounting for era the Sedin's peaks were certainly better than anything Sundin accomplished, but Mats definitely has a clear edge in career consistency.

I did notice you say that the Sedin's were borderline HOF players, and I can't agree with that. Out of the three, I feel Sundin should have been the borderline player to make first ballot. I remember being surprised when he was inducted so quickly. I think if he played for Carolina his entire career he may have waited quite a few years. He was an incredible player with a knack for big moments, and a model of consistency. But I also believe his spot in hockey history has a lot to do with he colours of his NHL jersey.

Even individually both the Sedin's resumes are first ballot slam dunks. It's also important to remember they played 11 of their 17 seasons in two of the lowest scoring eras. Sundin on the other hand only played 8 out of his 18 seasons in the dead puck era.


Daniel Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Lindsay)
1x Hart Finalist
1x First Team All-Star
1x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
1x WJC Gold
1x King Clancy
2x Top 10 Finishes
4x 30+ Goal Season
1x 40+ Goal Season
4x PPG Season
1041 points

Henrik Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Hart)
2x First Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
1x WJC Gold
2x King Clancy
3x Top 10 Finishes
3x Led league in assists
3x PPG Season
1070 points

Mats Sundin

2x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold
3x Word Championship Gold
2x Top 10 Finishes
13x 30+ Goal Season
3x 40+ Goal Season
11x PPG Season
564 Goals
1349 Points

Sedins never won a WJC gold for Sweden, not sure where you're getting that from. The only twins that ever won a WJC for Sweden were the Sundström twins, Peter and Patrik. Sweden's only won this tourney twice, once with the Sundströms in 1981, once with the DJ ZBAD/Wild Bill crowd in 2012.

I like the Sedins quite a lot, but there's way too much stat watching going on on this board right now, partly exemplified by the Toews bashing threads and also the Goring bashing thread.

Mats Sundin actually was an elite C also regarding scoring though, at the thick of the DPE. He led all Cs in scoring in 01–02 for instance, in front of guys like Sakic, Oates, Demitra, Modano and Francis. And this is while Darcy Tucker was the second highest scorer on Toronto over the course of the season.

Sundin was also an all-situations guy more than the Sedins, he was great at face-offs and played regularly on the PK, et cetera, with 56 career shorthanded points to his resume.

In my favorite Canucks in Cars episode ever Kyle Wellwood points this out too, that the best duo he ever played with were the Sedins, but the best individual player he ever played with was Sundin, timestamped below.

 

[Neutrinos]

Even individually both the Sedin's resumes are first ballot slam dunks. It's also important to remember they played 11 of their 17 seasons in two of the lowest scoring eras. Sundin on the other hand only played 8 out of his 18 seasons in the dead puck era.

Have you seen the Sedins' stats from their first few seasons in the league?

They're probably the reason it was such a low scoring era

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Sedins never won a WJC gold for Sweden, not sure where you're getting that from. The only twins that ever won a WJC for Sweden were the Sundström twins, Peter and Patrik. Sweden's only won this tourney twice, once with the Sundströms in 1981, once with the DJ ZBAD/Wild Bill crowd in 2012.

I like the Sedins quite a lot, but there's way too much stat watching going on on this board right now, partly exemplified by the Toews bashing threads and also the Goring bashing thread.

Mats Sundin actually was an elite C also regarding scoring though, at the thick of the DPE. He led all Cs in scoring in 01–02 for instance, in front of guys like Sakic, Oates, Demitra, Modano and Francis. And this is while Darcy Tucker was the second highest scorer on Toronto over the course of the season.

Sundin was also an all-situations guy more than the Sedins, he was great at face-offs and played regularly on the PK, et cetera, with 56 career shorthanded points to his resume.

In my favorite Canucks in Cars episode ever Kyle Wellwood points this out too, that the best duo he ever played with were the Sedins, but the best individual player he ever played with was Sundin, timestamped below.

You’re right about the WJC. I misread their U-18 European Gold.

I don’t disagree that Mats was one of the best all around C’s in the league for many years. All I’m saying is that he likely wouldn’t have been inducted into the HHOF as quickly as he was if he didn’t play for Toronto.

 

[Giotrapani91]

When accounting for era the Sedin's peaks were certainly better than anything Sundin accomplished, but Mats definitely has a clear edge in career consistency.

I did notice you say that the Sedin's were borderline HOF players, and I can't agree with that. Out of the three, I feel Sundin should have been the borderline player to make first ballot. I remember being surprised when he was inducted so quickly. I think if he played for Carolina his entire career he may have waited quite a few years. He was an incredible player with a knack for big moments, and a model of consistency. But I also believe his spot in hockey history has a lot to do with he colours of his NHL jersey.

Even individually both the Sedin's resumes are first ballot slam dunks. It's also important to remember they played 11 of their 17 seasons in two of the lowest scoring eras. Sundin on the other hand only played 8 out of his 18 seasons in the dead puck era.


Daniel Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Lindsay)
1x Hart Finalist
1x First Team All-Star
1x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
1x King Clancy
2x Top 10 Finishes
4x 30+ Goal Season
1x 40+ Goal Season
4x PPG Season
1041 points

Henrik Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Hart)
2x First Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
2x King Clancy
3x Top 10 Finishes
3x Led league in assists
3x PPG Season
1070 points

Mats Sundin

2x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold
3x Word Championship Gold
2x Top 10 Finishes
13x 30+ Goal Season
3x 40+ Goal Season
11x PPG Season
564 Goals
1349 Points

We’re gonna see at least one Swede in the 2023 class lundqvist, I think zetterberg goes in the 2024 class with marleau, but 2023 class I have Bryan Murray in the builder category him, Jack Parker longtime Boston university coach recently retired or Ken Hitchcock, Meghan Duggan in the female player category than in the men’s player category I have 4 inductees lundqvist, brindamour, mogilny & either turgeon or fleury, 2024 in the female category I have one female in that class natalie darwitz, I have Ken Hitchcock 99 cup winning head coach, in the builder category player category I have 4 players zetterberg, marleau, Roenick & tkachuk. If not Roenick & tkachuk than CuJo & either turgeon or fleury. 2025 I have chara & Getzlaf first ballot, going in with them I have Jennifer Boterill in the female player category, and the two other players in the 2025 class I have CuJo & fleury if he doesn’t make the 2023 or 2024 class, both classes have a 1st ballot hall of famer 2023 lundqvist, & 2024 marleau, than like I mentioned before 2025 I have Getzlaf & Chara a in the player category along with tkachuk & JR. if datsyuk retires this next year first ballot in 2026 joining him will be builder Rick Comley, female player category Cassie Campbell Pascall or Kendal Coyne Schofield if she retires next year after the world championships, & the other two male players I have going along with Duncan Keith & datsyuk are Tom Barrasso & Pekka rinne normally I wouldn’t put two goalies in a class but I did if not Barrasso definitely Rinne, & maybe Pat Verbeek who had 522 goals 540 assists 1062 points.

 

[Giotrapani91]

We’re gonna see at least one Swede in the 2023 class lundqvist, I think zetterberg goes in the 2024 class with marleau, but 2023 class I have Bryan Murray in the builder category him, Jack Parker longtime Boston university coach recently retired or Ken Hitchcock, Meghan Duggan in the female player category than in the men’s player category I have 4 inductees lundqvist, brindamour, mogilny & either turgeon or fleury, 2024 in the female category I have one female in that class natalie darwitz, I have Ken Hitchcock 99 cup winning head coach, in the builder category player category I have 4 players zetterberg, marleau, Roenick & tkachuk. If not Roenick & tkachuk than CuJo & either turgeon or fleury. 2025 I have chara & Getzlaf first ballot, going in with them I have Jennifer Boterill in the female player category, and the two other players in the 2025 class I have CuJo & fleury if he doesn’t make the 2023 or 2024 class, both classes have a 1st ballot hall of famer 2023 lundqvist, & 2024 marleau, than like I mentioned before 2025 I have Getzlaf & Chara a in the player category along with tkachuk & JR. if datsyuk retires this next year first ballot in 2026 joining him will be builder Rick Comley, female player category Cassie Campbell Pascall or Kendal Coyne Schofield if she retires next year after the world championships, & the other two male players I have going along with Duncan Keith & datsyuk are Tom Barrasso & Pekka rinne normally I wouldn’t put two goalies in a class but I did if not Barrasso definitely Rinne, & maybe Pat Verbeek who had 522 goals 540 assists 1062 points.

My class for the 2023 hockey hall of fame Alexander mogilny you can’t snub him forever, Henrik lundqvist, Rod Brindamour, & Pierre turgeon. Next year he’ll have been eligible for 12 years brindamour 8, if they don’t make it next year than I have Keith tkachuk & Jeremy Roenick. Keith has been eligible 10 years, JR 11. Builder category I have Ken Hitchcock or the late Bryan Murray, & if s as female goes in I have it being Meghan Duggan & or Cassie Campbell Pascall.

 

[crobro]

There should be a legacy selection every year

My choice Rick Martin this year

 

[ES]

There should be a legacy selection every year

My choice Rick Martin this year

There was a "veteran player category" between 1988 and 2000 but this was eliminated and older players are considered in the same category as the more recently retired.

1988 Buddy O'Connor (last season 1952-53)*
1989 Herbie Lewis (1940-41)
1990 Fernie Flaman (1963-64)
1991 Clint Smith (1951-52)
1992 Woody Dumart (1954-55)
1993 Edgar Laprade (1954-55)
1994 Lionel Conacher (1936-37)*
1994 Harry Watson (1957-58)
1995 Bun Cook (1942-43)*
1996 Bobby Bauer (1951-52)*
1998 Roy Conacher (1951-52)*

* were posthumous inductions. I don't know exact criteria for them, but since this category was dropped following players were inducted 30+ years after their retirements: Dick Duff, Rogie Vachon, Alexander Yakushev and Vaclav Nedomansky.

 

[MXD]

Getzlaf is not getting in on his first year of eligibility. That is absolutely certain.

 

[Staniowski]

Getzlaf is not getting in on his first year of eligibility. That is absolutely certain.

Who are the 1st-year eligibles in 2025?

Spezza
Keith
Getzlaf
Subban
Chara
Rask

Probably Thornton?

Possibly Price?

What's going on with Jagr?

Is Datsyuk eligible in 2024?

 

[jigglysquishy]

Going by last game played, there will be multiple guys waiting after 2025.

Jagr, Thornton, and Keith won't wait.

Price might still play another game.

 

[MXD]

Who are the 1st-year eligibles in 2025?

Spezza
Keith
Getzlaf
Subban
Chara
Rask

Probably Thornton?

Possibly Price?

What's going on with Jagr?

Is Datsyuk eligible in 2024?

Datsyuk would be first eligible in 2025. Carey Price too (he's not coming back and and he has exactly 33 millions of reasons to not officially retire). MAYBE Joe Thornton is first eligible too if he doesn't play a single more game. Jagr is on Kladno's roster, so my guess is, he's gonna play this season, thus be eligible in 2026.

 

[Giotrapani91]

Going by last game played, there will be multiple guys waiting after 2025.

Jagr, Thornton, and Keith won't wait.

Price might still play another game.

Datsyuk is eligible in 2024 they said it last night in a wings tv broadcast, so him zetterberg & marleau will be same class along with a wild card player I have brindamour going in with those three brindamour or Pierre turgeon.

 

[Hockey Stathead]

Datsyuk is eligible in 2024 they said it last night in a wings tv broadcast, so him zetterberg & marleau will be same class along with a wild card player I have brindamour going in with those three brindamour or Pierre turgeon.

Think Patrik Elias will ever get in?

 

[frisco]

When accounting for era the Sedin's peaks were certainly better than anything Sundin accomplished, but Mats definitely has a clear edge in career consistency.

I did notice you say that the Sedin's were borderline HOF players, and I can't agree with that. Out of the three, I feel Sundin should have been the borderline player to make first ballot. I remember being surprised when he was inducted so quickly. I think if he played for Carolina his entire career he may have waited quite a few years. He was an incredible player with a knack for big moments, and a model of consistency. But I also believe his spot in hockey history has a lot to do with he colours of his NHL jersey.

Even individually both the Sedin's resumes are first ballot slam dunks. It's also important to remember they played 11 of their 17 seasons in two of the lowest scoring eras. Sundin on the other hand only played 8 out of his 18 seasons in the dead puck era.


Daniel Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Lindsay)
1x Hart Finalist
1x First Team All-Star
1x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
1x King Clancy
2x Top 10 Finishes
4x 30+ Goal Season
1x 40+ Goal Season
4x PPG Season
1041 points

Henrik Sedin

1x Art Ross
1x MVP (Hart)
2x First Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold (NHL Players)
1x World Championship Gold
2x King Clancy
3x Top 10 Finishes
3x Led league in assists
3x PPG Season
1070 points

Mats Sundin

2x Second Team All-Star
1x Olympic Gold
3x Word Championship Gold
2x Top 10 Finishes
13x 30+ Goal Season
3x 40+ Goal Season
11x PPG Season
564 Goals
1349 Points

I'm not sold on the Sedins as first ballot HOFers. If you notice there's a lot of "1x" on both of their lists. Meaning if it wasn't for one big season where things really fell into place their credentials really take a hit. Sundin was really a much better player with more consistent excellence. If you remove Sundin's best season he's still an easy HOFer. Not so with the Sedins.

My Best-Carey

 

[JUSTGIROUXIT]

Think Patrik Elias will ever get in?

Elias definitely deserving in my eyes.

 

[Michael Farkas]

More than Marleau certainly...

 

[Neutrinos]

I'm not sold on the Sedins as first ballot HOFers. If you notice there's a lot of "1x" on both of their lists. Meaning if it wasn't for one big season where things really fell into place their credentials really take a hit. Sundin was really a much better player with more consistent excellence. If you remove Sundin's best season he's still an easy HOFer. Not so with the Sedins.

My Best-Carey

Henrik Sedin
1181 adj. points in 1330 games
78 points in 105 playoff games

Pierre Turgeon
1315 adj. points in 1294 games
97 points in 109 games

 

[Giotrapani91]

Think Patrik Elias will ever get in?

He should but they’ll snub him cuz he played on a great defensive team unfortunately.

Henrik Sedin
1181 adj. points in 1330 games
78 points in 105 playoff games!

Pierre Turgeon
1315 adj. points in 1294 games
97 points in 109 games

Turgeon should be in I mean the points speak for themselves & he has hardware a lady byng trophy in 1993. You don’t just score 515 goals & 1327 points in a great career thats imo borderline hall of famer.

 

[Giotrapani91]

More than Marleau certainly...

Marleau would only get first ballot votes cuz he had 566 goals, 631 assists, 1197 points, he also is the leader in all time games played breaking Gordie Howe’s record before he retired, he also has a gold medal at the 2003 world championships winning silver two years later in 2005, he also won gold at the World Cup in 04, & gold at the 2010 & 2014 Olympics, Elias has a bronze at the 06 Olympics as well as two bronze in the world championships.

 

[Giotrapani91]

There should be a legacy selection every year

My choice Rick Martin this year

My choice would be Dave taylor.

 

[crobro]

Dave Taylor should be in I agree as does Tim Kerr and Bernie Nichols

Gary Suter and Jeremy Roenick would be in if they didn’t piss off majority of the voters

 

[Bustedprospect]

Henrik Sedin
1181 adj. points in 1330 games
78 points in 105 playoff games!

Pierre Turgeon
1315 adj. points in 1294 games
97 points in 109 games

This one is quite easy.

One holds major NHL-awards and one doesn't.

One peaked higher a lot higher. Second best season of one of the players is comparable to the peak of the other. Unless you count raw numbers when goalies didnt save beach balls.

One is not respected as a player and as a leader. The other simply aren't in any way comparable.

One solid in his own end and the other not so much.

One got a decent international career where the other totally blows that one.

The hall got this one right for sure.

 

[Neutrinos]

This one is quite easy.

One holds major NHL-awards and one doesn't.

One peaked higher a lot higher. Second best season of one of the players is comparable to the peak of the other. Unless you count raw numbers when goalies didnt save beach balls.

One is not respected as a player and as a leader. The other simply aren't in any way comparable.

One solid in his own end and the other not so much.

One got a decent international career where the other totally blows that one.

The hall got this one right for sure.

Would you like a day or two to do some research and then edit your post, or should I just go ahead and correct you?