GDT: The 2020 TDL Thread: Part II

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Look at teams the rangers are close to in the standings right now. Carolina is a good example. They’re in their window, right now. The rangers aren’t even at the brink of a window yet and look how good they’ve set themselves up. Already competing, tons of young talent, this rebuild is working. 2-3 years from now we’re going to be through the moon with this group of studs. Stay the course!

 

[mas0764]

Wait... good teams need good players?

You may be over selling it. STL and WAS had some decent middle6 players. They were led by their horses at the top. They did have good role players / forecheckers.

Why would Mika drop off in 3 years?

I don't think I'm over selling it. Again, the best teams have players on their third line who could play on most other teams' second lines. Most top contenders have at least one player on their third lines who is really a second line caliber player. Some have two of those types. Washington and St. Louis are included in this count.

That's why I think we need more top end forward talent to be an elite team.

This is behind a paywall but it's very enlightening: Analysis: How close is every NHL team to being a contender?

And I didn't say Mika would drop off, I said we should have two more top-end forwards added to our pool... one of them should be a center IN CASE Mika drops off. If he doesn't, then one of our high-end third liners is a center. Bonus.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Larry’s latest article makes it sound like the team has been rebuilding for an eternity

Everyone has the stomach for a rebuild until they suddenly don’t

. Again there is no mandate on a rebuild. Some people can’t accept that the team got better very quickly. Just because they aren’t dumping ever player they have and trying to win the lottery doesn’t mean they aren’t still building with youth. We have 19 picks coming up in two years. We are in a great position to compete AND keep the farm strong. Not many teams can say that

 

[mas0764]

. Again there is no mandate on a rebuild.

I don't think this means what you think it means.

 

[mas0764]

Not necessarily. A team made up of all young players, without veteran leadership, just doesn’t work. You need a good mix. Panarin wouldn’t be enough.

But we have more than Panarin, even if we traded Kreider. We have Staal, Smith, Trouba, Panarin, Mika, Fast and Lundqvist.

 

[Maximus]

Funny but it seems like I'm in the minority here as lots of peeps in here not happy about Gorton nor our TDL moves which is vexing.

We needed to walk a very fine line with Kreider as we didn't want to overpay him while on other hand make sure if we dealt him, we got solid enough return for him.

Apparently what was offered wasn't up to snuff and so Gorton figured out a way to bring Kreider back to very friendly 6.5 AAV for 7 which needed to be done. Maybe others in here aren't confident about this but I'm pretty damn confident for the first 4 if not 5 years of the contract Kreider will be a Top 6 guy.

And even if he ended up a 3rd line guy the last two years of the contract means to me that extending him was absoluatly the right decision. So kudos to Gorton and Kreider as well for figuring out a way to get this done as it's good for the future of the team.

Getting a #1 overall for Skjei was also solid as I wasn't sure that would even be possible seeing Skjei has blown chunks since his rookie year and so kudos once again to Gorton for getting this done which now frees up some badly needed cap room to insure Tony D comes back which to me was essential for the future success of the team.

I dunno like I said maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think the TDL could have gone much better considering what we were dealing with and the fine line that needed to be walked.

We still have a shot for the playoffs this year and the future is massivly bright. I for one will sleep like a baby tonight knowing the Rangers are in good hands and we are very much on the right track to be Cup contenders as soon as 2 years from now...

 

[NYRangers0723]

But we have more than Panarin, even if we traded Kreider. We have Staal, Smith, Trouba, Panarin, Mika, Fast and Lundqvist.

Hank probably is gone this offseason along with smith and/or Staal. Rangers did the right thing. The couldnt replace what he brings on the ice and how he has helped the kids too.

 

[NYSPORTS]

. Nah I’m good thanks. I think what I said is pretty fair and true. I feel like I am talking to mike francesa now ukay lol

then go bet on it gets a “Nah”? Is this a Joe Beningo? Kinda commit and then back off?

 

[PuckLuck3043]

No, I mean, by attrition, we probably aren't gonna be icing a team of Panarin-Mika-Kakko and Kreider-Chytil-Kravtsov from 2021 to 2028. On top of that, the true elite teams usually have second-line type players playing on their third lines to a degree (think, Alex Killorn, Andreas Johansson, Joonas Donskoi, Patric Hornqvist, Denis Gurianov, Tyler Bozak, Alex Steen, Max Domi, etc). See the Athletic's "How Close is every team to being a contender" article, has a wonderful scoring system of players.

You can't just say, oh, there's our top 6, let's just get some Brendan Lemieuxs and Jesper Fasts to fill out the bottom. No, the best teams have second line caliber players on their third lines.

We decidedly lack that depth, even if our top 6 stays intact. Now, we also have good depth on D and well performing goaltenders. So I think we have some leeway in the forwards. But we have a definite top-end talent deficiency there even if guys like Kravtsov and Chytil pan out. We need more 2L caliber players. I'd say -- to be safe -- we should be aiming for 2 more.

One of them should be a center, because center is so important. If Mika drops off in 3 years, you want to transition to another as seamlessly as possible, to extend your window. Otherwise your window slams shut if something happens to your 1C.

Chytil and Kakko are 3rd line players that will be future top 6 guys. Gauthier was a nice pickup too plus Kravtsov next year and maybe Barrone after that. We will continue to add to our forward depth over the next few years. Goalie and D depth are good.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Funny but it seems like I'm in the minority here as lots of peeps in here not happy about Gorton nor our TDL moves which is vexing.

We needed to walk a very fine line with Kreider as we didn't want to overpay him while on other hand make sure if we dealt him, we got solid enough return for him.

Apparently what was offered wasn't up to snuff and so Gorton figured out a way to bring Kreider back to very friendly 6.5 AAV for 7 which needed to be done. Maybe others in here aren't confident about this but I'm pretty damn confident for the first 4 if not 5 years of the contract Kreider will be a Top 6 guy.

And even if he ended up a 3rd line guy the last two years of the contract means to me that extending him was absoluatly the right decision. So kudos to Gorton and Kreider as well for figuring out a way to get this done as it's good for the future of the team.

Getting a #1 overall for Skjei was also solid as I wasn't sure that would even be possible seeing Skjei has blown chunks since his rookie year and so kudos once again to Gorton for getting this done which now frees up some badly needed cap room to insure Tony D comes back which to me was essential for the future success of the team.

I dunno like I said maybe I'm in the minority but I don't think the TDL could have gone much better considering what we were dealing with and the fine line that needed to be walked.

We still have a shot for the playoffs this year and the future is massivly bright. I for one will sleep like a baby tonight knowing the Rangers are in good hands and we are very much on the right track to be Cup contenders as soon as 2 years from now...

Agree. Solid deadline. Nothing earth shattering but they didn’t need earth shattering. A couple savvy moves and we can still make a playoff push AND have multiple first rounders this year. Love it.

 

[Rempe73]

But we have more than Panarin, even if we traded Kreider. We have Staal, Smith, Trouba, Panarin, Mika, Fast and Lundqvist.

Staal, Smith, and Lundqvist do not count. They will be gone once a lot of our young guys are NHL-ready. Zibanejad and Trouba fit that “medium” category. Not veterans but not young players. We don’t even know if Mika will be resigned. Fast I don’t know if we even keep.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't think I'm over selling it. Again, the best teams have players on their third line who could play on most other teams' second lines. Most top contenders have at least one player on their third lines who is really a second line caliber player. Some have two of those types. Washington and St. Louis are included in this count.

That's why I think we need more top end forward talent to be an elite team.

This is behind a paywall but it's very enlightening: Analysis: How close is every NHL team to being a contender?

And I didn't say Mika would drop off, I said we should have two more top-end forwards added to our pool... one of them should be a center IN CASE Mika drops off. If he doesn't, then one of our high-end third liners is a center. Bonus.

I don't think I'm over selling it. Again, the best teams have players on their third line who could play on most other teams' second lines. Most top contenders have at least one player on their third lines who is really a second line caliber player. Some have two of those types. Washington and St. Louis are included in this count.

That's why I think we need more top end forward talent to be an elite team.

This is behind a paywall but it's very enlightening: Analysis: How close is every NHL team to being a contender?

And I didn't say Mika would drop off, I said we should have two more top-end forwards added to our pool... one of them should be a center IN CASE Mika drops off. If he doesn't, then one of our high-end third liners is a center. Bonus.

We can use more middle6 talent. Which is what Strome is. 3rd line is where Fast belongs. These players slot down and Chytil Kakko Kravtsov slot up. Hopefully players like Howden can develop, give the guy some joooce. Gauthier. A player like Barron may come over and help. We still have a solid player in Lemieux.

Kreider - Zibs - Buch/Kakko/Kravtsov
Panarin - Strome/Chytil - Kakko/Kravtsov
Lemieux - Strome/Chytil - Gauthier/Kravtsov
Barron - Howden - Fast/Gauthier

a potential 2021 lineup... thats not a bad lineup. Obviously its paper and potential but its not as if it lacks talent. Its not as dire as you make it sound. Yes, we can use more talent.... that can be said for any team.

You're muddying the waters. Bozak and Steen are not 2nd line players or top end talent. They're middle 6ers at best, 3rd liners at worst. Washington did not have 2nd liners on their 3rd line.

 

[Leetch3]

with his replacement in Hartford already

I think we are all hoping that kravtsov will be a better version of buch but I think its pretty disrespectful toward a great american forward to think he can just be replaced by a guy that has barely hacked it at the AHL level so far. Buch is on pace for 50 points and, as far as I understand, has great fancy stats. VK has a long way to go to replace that.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I am not sure how I feel about not trading Fast. Does it mean we are re-signing him for around 3 years 2-3 mil? I guess that wouldn't be bad. Where to Kravtsov fit in then? And later Pajuniemi? We need to draft some wingers/forwards our system has almost none in the pipeline. Trade some D prospect for a forward prospect.

 

[NYRangers0723]

then go bet on it gets a “Nah”? Is this a Joe Beningo? Kinda commit and then back off?

. I don’t even like Beningo but Francesa is just an arrogant fat tub of shit lol

 

[duhmetreE]

I think we are all hoping that kravtsov will be a better version of buch but I think its pretty disrespectful toward a great american forward to think he can just be replaced by a guy that has barely hacked it at the AHL level so far. Buch is on pace for 50 points and, as far as I understand, has great fancy stats. VK has a long way to go to replace that.

Once he gets accustomed to 'Merica and our barber humor... I expect tremendous freedom growth from VK

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I have to wonder is a Georgiev deal was in the cards at the deadline and had to be aborted with the Shesterkin news.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

. Again there is no mandate on a rebuild. Some people can’t accept that the team got better very quickly. Just because they aren’t dumping ever player they have and trying to win the lottery doesn’t mean they aren’t still building with youth. We have 19 picks coming up in two years. We are in a great position to compete AND keep the farm strong. Not many teams can say that

We've also created an unnecessary (IMO) time box for ourselves with limited financial flexibility, for sure in the short term and very possibly in the not so long term.

They needed to be out of those dead weight contracts a year earlier than they're going to be getting out of them (So the next time someone says "oh its just an extra year..") A "status quo" lineup or even one similar to the one that @NYR Viper posted is not nearly good enough. They need help from outside the organization - They have the assets for it, but they don't have the space for it and I dont see how they can have the space for it unless Hank does them a solid and/or the FO grows a set to do something about Staal.

But they're on the clock now and they need to maximize their chances of winning the cup ASAP. This is the direction they've chosen to go in so I hope they have a plan beyond what they've done so far but they better not try to sell me on competing while still running Staal out there every night.

 

[NYRangers0723]

I have to wonder is a Georgiev deal was in the cards at the deadline and had to be aborted with the Shesterkin news.

don’t think so. Rangers wanted a ton for him and nobody was willing to do it

 

[mas0764]

We can use more middle6 talent. Which is what Strome is. 3rd line is where Fast belongs. These players slot down and Chytil Kakko Kravtsov slot up. Hopefully players like Howden can develop, give the guy some joooce. Gauthier. A player like Barron may come over and help. We still have a solid player in Lemieux.

Kreider Zibs Buch/Kakko/Kravtsov
Panarin Strome/Chytil Kakko/Kravtsov
Lemieux Strome/Chytil Gauthier/Kravtsov
Barron Howden Fast/Gauthier

a potential 2021 lineup... thats not a bad lineup. Obviously its paper and potential but its not as if it lacks talent. Its not as dire as you make it sound. Yes, we can use more talent.... that can be said for any team.

You're muddying the waters. Bozak and Steen are not 2nd line players or top end talent. They're middle 6ers at best, 3rd liners at worst. Washington did not have 2nd liners on their 3rd line.

That's not a BAD lineup, it's just not an elite one. I'm aiming for more.

It's not unrealistic, they could have acquired another Kravtsov level prospect or two this draft. They just chose immediate competitiveness over it. I dislike the approach.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

. Again there is no mandate on a rebuild. Some people can’t accept that the team got better very quickly. Just because they aren’t dumping ever player they have and trying to win the lottery doesn’t mean they aren’t still building with youth. We have 19 picks coming up in two years. We are in a great position to compete AND keep the farm strong. Not many teams can say that

Agree 100%. In less than 3 years we have traded Stepan, McDonagh, Skjei, Grabner, Nash, JT Miller, Zucc, and Hayes because we didn't want to pay them and we received a ton of picks and prospects. We sign 1 vet who is playing great and is still in his prime and the world is coming to an end. I just don't get it.

 

[Good Intentions]

To be clear, I definitely do not think the Rangers were without a choice when it came to signing Kreider.

I think there were deals to be had --- good deals to be had.

Lost in a lot of chatter about what the Rangers did, and whether people fully agree with it, is the aspect that Kreider might have also come down a total of $5.25 million to remain a Ranger as well.

And there's also a good possibility that Buch, not Skjei is the one getting moved if not for some dumbf*ck making a U-turn.

Re: 89. Don’t think so, at all...And I’m the furthest thing from a Buch fan.

89 has been playing good hockey for weeks. He also has a chemistry going with 20 and 93. The Merzlikins electric guitar, culminating with his decking of Marchand, and further compounded with his apparent closeness with Kreider solidified his place. He wasn’t going anywhere, and neither was Georgiev.

 

[NYSPORTS]

. I don’t even like Beningo but Francesa is just an arrogant fat tub of shit lol

good news though Joe, we have 19 picks over the next 2 years so get really excited. . . but statistics indicate 1-5 have about a 95% chance of making it
6-10 88% (nice to see Lias is doing so well)
and the odds drop to about 15% for the majority of those picks.

 

[mas0764]

Chytil and Kakko are 3rd line players that will be future top 6 guys. Gauthier was a nice pickup too plus Kravtsov next year and maybe Barrone after that. We will continue to add to our forward depth over the next few years. Goalie and D depth are good.

I'm not counting on anything from Gauthier or Barron. If they surprise me, great.

But my approach would have been selling Kreider for a shot at a guy like Holtz.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Agree 100%. In less than 3 years we have traded Stepan, McDonagh, Skjei, Grabner, Nash, JT Miller, Zucc, and Hayes because we didn't want to pay them and we received a ton of picks and prospects. We sign 1 vet who is playing great and is still in his prime and the world is coming to an end. I just don't get it.

I think some have just fallen in love with the idea of going for the lottery every year. Look I was excited when we jumped up to 2 last year and was rooting for us to do it the year before. But no I don’t want to do it every year. I expected to do it this year but I’m happy the team has taken a big step forward. Kids like fox lindgren Tony Kakko Chytil and of course Igor getting better and Panarin Mika and CK leading the way. It’s exciting. I just don’t get it lol