Marshal Rochambeau
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4 goals 8 points in 6 playoff games this year.
Shift by shift of Barzal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y8yKQ9j838
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Prospect Info: The 2015 NHL Draft Thread VII
- Thread starter Emperoreddy
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4 goals 8 points in 6 playoff games this year.
Shift by shift of Barzal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y8yKQ9j838
JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
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Am I supposed to ignore the previous 103 regular season games where he only has 26 goals?
MichaelJ
Registered User
- May 20, 2013
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And they differ a lot from Zacha's.
Barzal hasn't shown an ability to score and Crouse is more of a power forward. Zacha has the complete skillset for a top center.
I'm genuinely curious here - if Zacha's skillset is so complete why is he being ranked around the 8-10 area in a lot of mock drafts/scout listings - what is missing from his game or what are his errors? Honestly I feel that there are multiple good choices for our #6 pick and either way we have a good chance and drafting someone successful but what makes Zacha better than the likes of Barzal but maybe not as good as Strome or Marner? From the highlight reel I saw Zacha and Barzal look good (realistically who will be available at our pick) but highlights show only so much I have not seen complete games of either.
In other years, guys like Barzal and Zacha would go higher. However, look at who else is on the board as well. Minus of course, McEichel.
thethinglonger
Castron & Crew
Oddly enough he (Barzal) does have a very good wrist shot, but is almost entirely a pass-first player.
thethinglonger
Castron & Crew
I've seen Zacha is different lists throughout the season putting him as high as 6th (with top-5 talent and developmental potential) and as low as 16th.
I think the two biggest knocks on Zacha are his offensive consistency -some games he doesn't show up too strongly while others he completely takes over the ice- and his play away from the puck... this includes defensive reads, support play, and leaving the defensive zone too early on the rush. These are things that can be worked out with another year or two of junior play...however his size and offensive instincts cannot be taught.
On the positive note about him, I really feel like he can become an elite talent for us within the next few years if we take the risk and draft him. Last year was his first year in North America, and he can only go up from here. He's got the size, the shot, the physicality, and the drive (when he shows up) to be a force whenever he steps onto the ice.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Because it isn't complete. Go back a few pages and read the write ups from the prospect board. The writer is a huge Zacha fan but points out he has deficiencies in the defensive zone, and also has issues off the puck. He can get caught flat footed and doesn't read developing plays well and can take poor routes both ways and doesn't contribute to maintaining possession and the attack for his team.
Some skills that are important for a center, especially one you want to be at the top of your line up.
His strengths are his size, and uncanny speed for his size on top of a wicked and extremely fast shot. To quote he is like a "bulldog", but with his current toolset is more of a off the rush player.
Makes sense why some believe he would be more effective at the wing.
OmNomNom
Taco is Love, Taco is Life
i remember someone did an analysis of players and how really good ones in the WHL who score over 1 ppg had a lot of goals. but while barzal doesn't have a lot of goals, he has an insane amount of assists. its hard to find a current player who has lopsided stats like him, but does anyone know of any players in the recent past who have a similar statline to barzal in their junior years? (over 1 ppg, 3x as many assists as goals)
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Both of Barzal's and Zacha's "negatives" can be developed and taught, though it doesn't seem smart to expect either to be great defensive forwards (which I don't think we are concerned with), but both aren't bad at it either.
Zacha can learn to take better reads and get better involved in plays that aren't just rushes. Barzal and learn to shoot more (he does have a good shot).
It depends on what you want. Zacha will score it seems, but he is no playmaker. Barzal is the other way around. We need both.
Zacha can learn to take better reads and get better involved in plays that aren't just rushes. Barzal and learn to shoot more (he does have a good shot).
It depends on what you want. Zacha will score it seems, but he is no playmaker. Barzal is the other way around. We need both.
Marshal Rochambeau
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He has high hockey IQ. All it takes is a little coaching and he can learn when to shoot and when to pass.
Emperoreddy
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Marshal Rochambeau
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A playmaker is more important to us than a pure scorer right now. Anyone can take a shot on net but not everyone can create a play in which a shot can be turned into a goal. Barzal has that ability.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
He has it in spades according to every report. He has very high IQ, he is an elite skater (read that a few times from different reports) and can read the play both on and off the puck. He makes things happen.
He does have a good shot, but he needs to use it more which we agree can be taught, especially considering he is still so young.
Cheddabombs
Status Quo
- Mar 13, 2012
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I'll disagree here. Anyone can take a shot on net, not everyone can take quality shots that challenge the goalie more often than not. We need both, playmakers and goalscorers, so really it doesn't matter.
I thank both of you for your solid descriptions of Zacha's strengths and weaknesses. I do agree that many defensive aspects can be taught and would not make him a bad choice. Do you guys think Barzal's lack of goal scoring has much if anything to do with the fact that the Seattle Thunderbirds were one of the lowest scoring teams in the WHL? I'm just curious if it's all relative - say if he was on the BWK team or the Hitmen and had a healthy season would his goals not be increased? Just want to see this from all angles. It seems Barzal is touted for his high hockey IQ and ability to read the play well which is nice to see for a center.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Ehhh the Soundbirds had injury issues for a good chunk of the year but that seemed to effect his overall scoring not his goal scoring.
From all accounts the lack of goals his him not shooting enough but passing instead. Plus he seems to over complicate plays sometimes.
Understandable, like you said all things that can be taught over time. Truthfully I am in the camp that we need so much that there aren't to many BAD choices to be made as far as who we take as long as it's someone in the realm of the upper echelon of skill. I would not be upset with one of Marner/Strome (if they fall),Barzal, Zacha, or Rantanen. Can't wait to see how it plays out.
That's true as well - because he still has a good number of assists. Honestly I think we can make informed guesses but just have to hope that Conte/Shero make the right decision.
It's a weird ratio for sure. Closest I could find of late was Jakub Voracek: 59 games, 23 goals, 63 assists during his draft year.
Zacha could be Jagr or he could be Viktor Kozlov. Because he's European and has missed time with injuries in his draft year I think he is being underrated. Scouts haven't seen enough to trust their observations over those of some players about whom they have more knowledge.
thethinglonger
Castron & Crew
This may not be it, but it's a good breakdown:
http://www.whl-from-above.blogspot.ca/2015/04/who-is-whls-top-playmaker-for-2015.html
theoptimist
Trade Siegenthaler
- Apr 22, 2014
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I'm looking for a player that can create space for other players, whether a playmaker or goal scorer.
You cannot solely judge a playmaker by the assists they get and a goal scorer by the amount of goals they score, as intuitive as that all might seem.
You cannot solely judge a playmaker by the assists they get and a goal scorer by the amount of goals they score, as intuitive as that all might seem.
This really is a big part of my issue with Barzal. I mean, if he needs really talented linemates to play to his potential, and this is likely (short of a lottery win) the highest pick we'll have for a long time, where are those linemates coming from? I would prefer a draft pick that has shown success without great linemates.
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