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Player Discussion Thatcher Demko

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bossram said:
They played him too much to this point. If this is *actually* a fairly minor injury, it really is a benefit the club will be forced to give Demko some time off.
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I’d agree, they pay lip service to workload management in the offseason, but this has been an issue for a while. They just can’t seem to help themselves. Even when DeSmith is going well they can’t help it.

Even though Demko is obviously a guy that has problems playing at a 55-60+ games/year rate (as do most all goalies).
 
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The thing about the workload argument is that Demko does do a lot better when he has a run of games. He does worse when he has long gaps between starts and I'm sure he advocates to play more. It reminds me of what Gillis said about Luongo, how hard it was to get him rest etc. It's a lot easier said than done but it's something they have to do.
 
geebster said:
The thing about the workload argument is that Demko does do a lot better when he has a run of games. He does worse when he has long gaps between starts and I'm sure he advocates to play more. It reminds me of what Gillis said about Luongo, how hard it was to get him rest etc. It's a lot easier said than done but it's something they have to do.
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Have to pick and choose. No one advocates for Desmith to get 2 straight starts, but have to figure out when you can give Demko a game off.

Desmith was at 17/65 games started. Pro-rated, that is 21.5, thus Demko would have started 60 games. With so many days off coming up, finding games off for Demko on this 9 game stand would be hard. Yet, the canucks palyed the most games at the end of Feb, yet they didn't play Desmith enough to ease the burden during their rash of games.

At some point you have to get Demsith into the extra couple games. Not talking about 5 more starts by now, but like 2 or 3 more.
 
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With Demko, it isn't just a 'work-load' issue......it's the quality of chances that he faces. As good as they've been recently, the Canucks just seem to surrender a lot of high-danger chances.

When goalies are forced to move laterally and try to thwart back-door chances---that's when so many groin and knee injuries seem to occur. Canucks have come to rely on Demko's goaltending to bail them out of tight spots over and over again.

It was no different on Saturday. Although the Canucks dominated, there were at least three or four glorious chance by the Jets that forced Demko into some acrobatic saves. It was obviously one of those saves where his knee gave out.

To me, that's the strongest argument for reducing his workload. Frankly I'd like to see him play no more than 50-55 games a season. But just never seems to happen.
 
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Billy Kvcmu said:
I don’t think 60s games would kill him

We should stop panicking for no evidence
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No evidence? The 'evidence' is that it's been a long time since Demko has been able to play 60 games for the Canucks. In fact it's only happened one time out of his four years with the Canucks.

The last two years he's missed a least a month or more of action. Let's face it. For a 28-year old goaltender, he's had a lot of injuries. Makes you wonder what happens when he hits 30 and beyond.
 
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VanJack said:
No evidence? The 'evidence' is that it's been a long time since Demko has been able to play 60 games for the Canucks. In fact it's only happened one time out of his four years with the Canucks.

The last two years he's missed a least a month or more of action. Let's face it. For a 28-year old goaltender, he's had a lot of injuries. Makes you wonder what happens when he hits 30 and beyond.
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limit his games then. or else hes gonna be injury prone. cuz he makes those acrobatic saves once in a blue moon.
 
cabinessence said:
If Canada stopped importing goalies from international leagues to star in Canadian junior, there might be better development opportunities for Canadian net minders. But that wouldn't be nice would it?
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Or maybe just fix the system and develop better young prospects that can defeat the imported goalies?
 
PuckMunchkin said:
Or maybe just fix the system and develop better young prospects that can defeat the imported goalies?
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Have to agree....In Europe, they identify goalies at a young age, and have the technique to develop them. Russia, Sweden and even Finland simply develop better goalies.

In Canada, it's a haphazard process of finding goalies; and then coaches tend to just leave them alone. To often in minor hockey, the coaching simply isn't there. And the game is so technically advanced now--particularly with goaltending techniques--it becomes almost impossible for young Canadian goalies to catch up.

Time for Hockey Canada to go back to drawing board when it comes to developing Canadian puck stoppers.
 
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VanJack said:
Have to agree....In Europe, they identify goalies at a young age, and have the technique to develop them. Russia, Sweden and even Finland simply develop better goalies.

In Canada, it's a haphazard process of finding goalies; and then coaches tend to just leave them alone. To often in minor hockey, the coaching simply isn't there. And the game is so technically advanced now--particularly with goaltending techniques--it becomes almost impossible for young Canadian goalies to catch up.

Time for Hockey Canada to go back to drawing board when it comes to developing Canadian puck stoppers.
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From what I understand the current system used by Sweden and Russia is largely based on the work of Urpo Ylönen from Turku Finland. For a relatively small volume of goalies he was able to develop a number of NHL level goalies the likes of Miikka Kiprusoffi, Antero Niittymäki, Fredrik Norrena to name a few.

Sweden perfected the system and Russia with its greater player volume is now reaping the rewards.

I dont see any reason why Canada could not also just steal the system and use it.
 
Goaltending is the only reason other countries can compete with Canada.

But for sure we need to solve it.
 
PuckMunchkin said:
From what I understand the current system used by Sweden and Russia is largely based on the work of Urpo Ylönen from Turku Finland. For a relatively small volume of goalies he was able to develop a number of NHL level goalies the likes of Miikka Kiprusoffi, Antero Niittymäki, Fredrik Norrena to name a few.

Sweden perfected the system and Russia with its greater player volume is now reaping the rewards.

I dont see any reason why Canada could not also just steal the system and use it.
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I think goal tending coaching is rapidly improving now, just not filtering down to minor league levels, kids.
Actually I think it was Tony Esposito, Patrick Roy and Brodeur (a half butterfly) that really got the butterfly going.
But they coached it, taught it at younger ages and then developed the player.
The Canucks have the goalie whisperer, all his players improve.
That and BIG. Already have oversized equipment it only makes sense a bigger player with oversized equipment is covering more of the net just by being positional rather than atheletic.
 
Demko already has had 3 surgeries if you count each hip

FYI

Who is a candidate for hip arthroscopy?​

Hip arthroscopy is generally recommended for younger patients with hip pain who do not require a hip replacement. The cause of their pain is usually related to sports injuries to the hip, overuse injuries or abnormalities in the shape of the bones that make up the hip joint. Your doctor might recommend arthroscopy to repair soft tissue damage in the hip or to correct the shape and the fit of the hip bones. Hip arthroscopy is usually not an option for those with osteoarthritis.

Hip arthroscopy may be an option if you’ve been diagnosed with or if your doctor suspects:

  • Hip impingement: pinching between the bones of the hip joint due to irregular bone shape. Arthroscopy can be used to reshape the bones.
  • Hip labral tear: a tear in the ring of cartilage that rims the hip socket. Arthroscopy can be used to clean out damaged labrum, repair the tear and address underlying causes such as hip impingement.
  • Loose fragments of cartilage in the joint after an injury: Arthroscopy can help remove any debris from the hip joint.
  • Bone spurs (osteophytes): bony bumps that form on the ends of the bones and can prevent the joint from gliding smoothly. Arthroscopy can be used to shave off the spurs and restore the shape of the joint.
  • Synovitis: inflammation of the joint lining. Arthroscopy can be used to remove the inflamed tissue as well as diagnose and treat the underlying causes.
Fits with timeline and the way he left, not really limping or favouring his leg or knee, it would have been a "grinding" feeling in the joint and not necessarily stop his play immediately. Just get worse as he played.

You will probably need about 6 weeks to recover. If your doctor repaired damaged tissue, recovery will take longer. You may have to limit your activity until your hip strength and movement are back to normal. You may also be in a physical rehabilitation (rehab) program.

Goalies with hip injuries would be an advantage for the opposition to target knowing that additional lateral movement would wear down the player very quickly in terms of games. The fourth line could do that, softening up for the top lines.
 
cabinessence said:
If Canada stopped importing goalies from international leagues to star in Canadian junior, there might be better development opportunities for Canadian net minders. But that wouldn't be nice would it?
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They did that from 2014 to 2018, though I don't think they ever clarified why they lifted it.
 
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If the Canucks aren't concerned about Demko going forward, they probably should be. Too many injuries and too many surgeries for a guy who's still only 28.

Obviously I have no idea how all these injury setbacks will impact his play as he closes in on 30-plus. Maybe there's no residual effect at all. But the reality often is, that injuries are cumulative.....and over a period of time they become a big issue.

The best 'future strategy' is to keep drafting goaltenders and hope that Ian Clark can help uncover the next 'great one'.
 
Billy Kvcmu said:
Carolina went through an entire season without a real starter

Good teams get through it
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And New Jersey went through an entire season without a real starter, or one that was any good. Last year they were an up-and-coming playoff team--this year, not so much.
 
VanJack said:
If the Canucks aren't concerned about Demko going forward, they probably should be. Too many injuries and too many surgeries for a guy who's still only 28.

Obviously I have no idea how all these injury setbacks will impact his play as he closes in on 30-plus. Maybe there's no residual effect at all. But the reality often is, that injuries are cumulative.....and over a period of time they become a big issue.

The best 'future strategy' is to keep drafting goaltenders and hope that Ian Clark can help uncover the next 'great one'.
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How many surgeries has Demko had that puts it in the “too many” category for you?

I think the best strategy is to use a high pick on a stud goalie prospect once that prospect has been identified. It’s no coincidence that Demko and Schneider are the two highest Canucks drafted goalies since Troy Gamble. Heck even Luongo and Cloutier were former first round picks. Increase your odds.
 
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F A N said:
How many surgeries has Demko had that puts it in the “too many” category for you?

I think the best strategy is to use a high pick on a stud goalie prospect once that prospect has been identified. It’s no coincidence that Demko and Schneider are the two highest Canucks drafted goalies since Troy Gamble. Heck even Luongo and Cloutier were former first round picks. Increase your odds.
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It's not 'how many' surgeries, if Demko stages a complete recovery from all of them. But if he keeps getting injured and can't play 50-60 games, then you have to ask yourself whether or not the impact of all the injuries in cumulative.

So far, according to my calculations, he's had surgery on both hips; and injuries to his groin a couple of times; and also his knees. I can't see how this doesn't affect him by the time he hits 30-31.
 
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