Terrible world cup ideas

[1Gold Standard]

Between 7 and 10 sounds reasonable, but they'll try and shoehorn as many as possible in there for political purposes and my guess is that they end up at 10-12 out of 25. Not quite 50-50, but perhaps a few more than the "ideal" construct.

you were right, as usual, 9. If the cutoff is 1993 born players. I had 8 originally 5 months ago, but since then I have added Hanifin. Not sure who to name as another forward, perhaps J.T. Miller, to make it an even 10 for the U.S. on a 25 man roster. Or perhaps our boy Drouin can work his way in there...we'll see how his sophomore season goes.

J GAUDREAU RNH R STROME
C MCDAVID S MONAHAN N MACKINNON
A GALCHENYUK J EICHEL M SCHIEFFLE
J HUBERDEAU B JENNER V TROCHECK

A LOWRY

M RIELLY D HAMILTON
R MURRAY A EKBLAD
S JONES J TROUBA (Jones can and does play the left side in Nashville)
N HANIFIN C CECI


C HELLEBUYCK
J GIBSON
M SUBBAN

 

[Phrazer]

I'm a little late to this party, so I apologise if this has been covered already.

But is there a way to actively voice my displeasure with that they have done by taking the nationalism out of the world cup? As an identified Canadian, I don't feel like I have a team in this tournament, and it really guts a lot of the appeal to me.

I know the classic response is "don't watch" and I won't be. But is there a more active way to voice this opinion?

 

[1Gold Standard]

I'm a little late to this party, so I apologise if this has been covered already.

But is there a way to actively voice my displeasure with that they have done by taking the nationalism out of the world cup? As an identified Canadian, I don't feel like I have a team in this tournament, and it really guts a lot of the appeal to me.

I know the classic response is "don't watch" and I won't be. But is there a more active way to voice this opinion?

You can try voicing your displeasure directly to the NHL, but they'll just respond with a standard, "our marketing guru, John Collins, is a genius."

It's my opinion that the gimmicky teams were his creation. Bettman and Co. (owners) simply bow to him.

I won't waste as single second on this tournament when the puck drops. but until then I won't waste an opportunity to trash it. If the NHL wants to revert back to a traditional and true National Team competition in 2020, then I'll be onboard...but I'll be doing something else come September 2016.

 

[Jussi]

Do when certain countries were sending ( snicker snicker) " soldiers" to beat up on players who would have been excluded for taking a dime as compensation, everything was hunky dory? Article 26 of the 1964 charter seems pretty clear that individuals who receive
renumeration for participation are ineligible


So, the olympics ACTIVITY excluded pros for years ( somewhat subjectively) now sees the draw by allowing REAL pros ( provided they offer their services for free). They KNOW they are pros, but they don't want to pay them as pros and only want to leverage the star power provided they do it for free.

And thus doesn't address that this loosely defined definition of diaspora is laughable on its face. A Korean speed skater can't be part of a Russian dream team by selection, but if Russia decides to outbid other countries for an exchange of naturalization for medal success, well that is just fine and dandy. Because the ioc cannot EVER refuse to allow such transparent opportunism. You know keeping up with the amateurism and all.

There was a whole amateur<>pro conflict in sports in general for decades but it wasn't what the Olympic exclusion originally was about. It was to keep the peasants out so that the noble people could enjoy their sports. Bear in mind that in Europe team sports atheletes din't start to get paid the kind of money that didn't force them to work another job pretty much until the 70's (European football as the exception). In Finland hockey players could concentrate on playing only hockey only until the mid-to-late 80's. But for example athletic/track field, they haven't had the amateur/pro distinction for decades. The IAAF has had their Grand Prix tours since the 80's as have the alpine skiiers, cross country skiers, ski jumpers and so on. The evetns with the most competitors havent' had amaterus in decades so trying to complain about it means the person isn't very educated on the subject.

It's also not the IOC's fault athletes can change nationality in some sports so quickly. It's more to do with local laws and happens also in non-Olympic sports.

 

[Theokritos]

As for the anthem, bon Jovi has two albums of songs for young guns 1 and 2 (perhaps dead or alive or blaze of glory?)

Seriously? If that's what you consider a legit international tournament there is not much left to discuss. Just call this thing "Molson Canadian International Holiday on Ice, brought to you by Island Records" instead of World Cup.

 

[sandysan]

Seriously? If that's what you consider a legit international tournament there is not much left to discuss. Just call this thing "Molson Canadian International Holiday on Ice, brought to you by Island Records" instead of World Cup.

It's not an international tourney, it's a nhl based tournament, by nhl players, FOR NHL players. It just so happens that within the PA there are lots of countries represented sufficiently that they could fill an entire roster based on nationality. Other countries lack this depth, so in order to not have to fill the gaps with chaff, the first iteration will pool these small collections of talents into a hybrid team that CAN ice NHL players at every position.

And the nhl gets by, just fine, without any anthems for the victory. Why someone would ask "what's the anthem?" for a non national entity belies a complete lack of understanding of what an anthem is.

And dead or alive might not be good but blaze if glory would be great!

 

[Reindl87]

I think they should have invited Switzerland and Slovakia and those two teams should have been allowed to invite a few players from other European countries on their roster.

Slovakia should have been allowed to invite players from the Czech Republique, Belarus, Latvia and the Ukraine.

Switzerkland should have been allowed to invite players from Germany, Austria and France.

Maybe 6 guys per roster.

I know this isn`t an ideal situation. But this way the tournament could have had 8 competitive teams.

 

[Theokritos]

It's not an international tourney, it's a nhl based tournament, by nhl players, FOR NHL players.

Is that the official position or your personal interpretation?

 

[Theokritos]

Slovakia should have been allowed to invite players from the Czech Republique

You're aware that the Czech Republic is one of the six participating nations?

 

[Jussi]

You're aware that the Czech Republic is one of the six participating nations?

Not to mention that players from other leagues are allowed to take part. The KHL while not havign a break fro the World Cup, will allow players to go. Whether clubs will allow, that's another matter.

 

[sandysan]

Is that the official position or your personal interpretation?

If it's an international competition, one would expect that national hockey federations might be involved, no?

It is, still very much an invitational tournament where the NHL gets to make its own rules ( see team young guns and team leftovers).

I'm sorry that it's not an international tourney, but it was never designed to be, either.

If it does well, it might indirectly affect real iihf sanctioned tourneys as then Olympic participation, for the foreseeable future, would be in doubt.

 

[FiLe]

If it's an international competition, one would expect that national hockey federations might be involved, no?

But they are. Of the "pure" NTs participating, their respective national federations will pick the players and coaches of said teams. Only the gimmick teams will be organized by the league. Said feds are also allowed to pick players outside the NHL, with no restrictions placed. Both of these things have been confirmed by the NHL.

You're starting look quite foolish now, given how little you seem to know about this tournament.

 

[sandysan]

But they are. Of the "pure" NTs participating, their respective national federations will pick the players and coaches of said teams. Only the gimmick teams will be organized by the league. Said feds are also allowed to pick players outside the NHL, with no restrictions placed. Both of these things have been confirmed by the NHL.

You're starting look quite foolish now, given how little you seem to know about this tournament.

Pick the teams from what pools? The nhl players, that's who.

National tournaments are sanctioned by the iihf. You know who is sanctioning the world cup? The nhl and the nhl PA and they can tell the iihf and all of their rules to go pound sand.

It's run under nhl rules, in a nhl rink, with nhl refs, with nhl players ( who will split the profits with the owners) and incorporates artifice such as the young guns and team leftover to ENSURE maximal, if not absolute, NHL PA participation.

But yeah its really an international tourney in disguise.
One can only hope that Mr. Mustachioed Rene fasel makes an appearance. A boy can hope, can't he?

 

[JackSlater]

It's not an international tourney, it's a nhl based tournament, by nhl players, FOR NHL players. It just so happens that within the PA there are lots of countries represented sufficiently that they could fill an entire roster based on nationality. Other countries lack this depth, so in order to not have to fill the gaps with chaff, the first iteration will pool these small collections of talents into a hybrid team that CAN ice NHL players at every position.

And the nhl gets by, just fine, without any anthems for the victory. Why someone would ask "what's the anthem?" for a non national entity belies a complete lack of understanding of what an anthem is.

And dead or alive might not be good but blaze if glory would be great!

If it's an international competition, one would expect that national hockey federations might be involved, no?

It is, still very much an invitational tournament where the NHL gets to make its own rules ( see team young guns and team leftovers).

I'm sorry that it's not an international tourney, but it was never designed to be, either.

If it does well, it might indirectly affect real iihf sanctioned tourneys as then Olympic participation, for the foreseeable future, would be in doubt.

Pick the teams from what pools? The nhl players, that's who.

National tournaments are sanctioned by the iihf. You know who is sanctioning the world cup? The nhl and the nhl PA and they can tell the iihf and all of their rules to go pound sand.

It's run under nhl rules, in a nhl rink, with nhl refs, with nhl players ( who will split the profits with the owners) and incorporates artifice such as the young guns and team leftover to ENSURE maximal, if not absolute, NHL PA participation.

But yeah its really an international tourney in disguise.
One can only hope that Mr. Mustachioed Rene fasel makes an appearance. A boy can hope, can't he?

We've been given insight into just what kind of person might actually be interested in this thing. A person who doesn't seem to know even the basic information about the tournament. The national federations are involved, and the player pool includes players from any league. Even the IIHF is "cooperating" (their own word) with this tournament.

 

[sandysan]

We've been given insight into just what kind of person might actually be interested in this thing. A person who doesn't seem to know even the basic information about the tournament. The national federations are involved, and the player pool includes players from any league. Even the IIHF is "cooperating" (their own word) with this tournament.

Cooperating is very different than sanctioning. This is essentially a pirate tourney that does not need, in any respect, the iihf's consent.

And the extent of non nhl page participation very much remains to be seen. How will khl players be paid? Why would the PA take on these interloper at the expense of their PA breatheren?

The purpose of this is to take control of a" best on best" tourney to enrich the owners and the PA, and to cut out the iihf.

The people who claim that this is abomination because it's not a true international tourney, are the ones who are confused. It's a league invitational to promote the nhl.

 

[Theokritos]

National tournaments are sanctioned by the iihf. You know who is sanctioning the world cup? The nhl and the nhl PA and they can tell the iihf and all of their rules to go pound sand.

"Sanctioning" means what exactly here? The NHL and NHL organize the tournament and the IIHF approves it.

This is essentially a pirate tourney that does not need, in any respect, the iihf's consent.

They need IIHF consent just like they did back when it was still called Canada Cup.

And the extent of non nhl page participation very much remains to be seen. How will khl players be paid? Why would the PA take on these interloper at the expense of their PA breatheren?

There has never been any Canada Cup or World Cup tournament (organized by the NHL & NHLPA and approved by the IIHF) with NHL players only. And of all sudden you think it turns into one now? All of a sudden participation of non NHL players is an issue?

The people who claim that this is abomination because it's not a true international tourney, are the ones who are confused. It's a league invitational to promote the nhl.

The people who claim that happen to know their history and be aware of the fact that this World Cup is a huge step backwards from to what the Canada Cup/World Cup used to be.

 

[Canuckistani]

If it does well, it might indirectly affect real iihf sanctioned tourneys as then Olympic participation, for the foreseeable future, would be in doubt.

Which is exacly why it is absolutely imperative that the "world cup" fail and fail badly.

Such a monstrosity cannot be allowed to replace best-on-best competition.

 

[sandysan]

Which is exacly why it is absolutely imperative that the "world cup" fail and fail badly.

Such a monstrosity cannot be allowed to replace best-on-best competition.

If it goes to qualifications, what's the difference? the only difference is who gets paid and who calls the shots.

 

[Canuckistani]

If it goes to qualifications, what's the difference? the only difference is who gets paid and who calls the shots.

A qualifying stage (for the final two spots) would make sense, which is probably why the NHL isn't doing it.

But why the need for even that? Prior events from 1976-2004 didn't have qualifying - they just took the top 6-8 teams and it was fine! Nothing but common sense was stopping them from doing that again for 2016.

 

[86Habs]

you were right, as usual, 9. If the cutoff is 1993 born players. I had 8 originally 5 months ago, but since then I have added Hanifin. Not sure who to name as another forward, perhaps J.T. Miller, to make it an even 10 for the U.S. on a 25 man roster. Or perhaps our boy Drouin can work his way in there...we'll see how his sophomore season goes.

J GAUDREAU RNH R STROME
C MCDAVID S MONAHAN N MACKINNON
A GALCHENYUK J EICHEL M SCHIEFFLE
J HUBERDEAU B JENNER V TROCHECK

A LOWRY

M RIELLY D HAMILTON
R MURRAY A EKBLAD
S JONES J TROUBA (Jones can and does play the left side in Nashville)
N HANIFIN C CECI


C HELLEBUYCK
J GIBSON
M SUBBAN

Oy. Seeing it on paper, that team is going to get ripped apart by the big boys.

I'd definitely make room for Couturier up front.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Oy. Seeing it on paper, that team is going to get ripped apart by the big boys.

I'd definitely make room for Couturier up front.

I'd make room for him as well, but Couturier has a 1992 birth year. Do we know for sure 1992 born players will be eligible, or is U24 as of Sept. 17, 2016?

Since I'm not planning on watching I haven't been paying attention to the tournament rules.

 

[86Habs]

I'd make room for him as well, but Couturier has a 1992 birth year. Do we know for sure 1992 born players will be eligible, or is U24 as of Sept. 17, 2016?

Since I'm not planning on watching I haven't been paying attention to the tournament rules.

Fair enough. I'm not 100% sure when the cutoff date is either. If its September 1992, we can thrown Brandon Saad on there as well.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Fair enough. I'm not 100% sure when the cutoff date is either. If its September 1992, we can thrown Brandon Saad on there as well.

They'd be wise to make the cut off U24 as of Sept. 17..otherwise the Young Gunzzzzz will be bruised and abused.

Not that I think picking up Couturier/Saad and maybe 1 or 2 others lurking in the AHL currently will make much of a difference.

but hey, I won't be watching anyway.

 

[decma]

A qualifying stage (for the final two spots) would make sense, which is probably why the NHL isn't doing it.

But why the need for even that? Prior events from 1976-2004 didn't have qualifying - they just took the top 6-8 teams and it was fine! Nothing but common sense was stopping them from doing that again for 2016.

Does anyone know if they seriously considered just going with 6 teams? With only 6 teams you would avoid the need for qualifiers or the issues with the U23 and Euro composite team. Regarding the format, you could do a full round-robin, with the top 4 making semis (or only 3 making playoffs with 1st getting bye to finals).

What would the downside be? No Kopitar, Hossa, and Gaborik? Are those guys even going to play anyway?

 

[bert]

They'd be wise to make the cut off U24 as of Sept. 17..otherwise the Young Gunzzzzz will be bruised and abused.

Not that I think picking up Couturier/Saad and maybe 1 or 2 others lurking in the AHL currently will make much of a difference.

but hey, I won't be watching anyway.

Id hope that 92's are included for competitve balance. I also will not be watching this farce of a tournament.