Terrible world cup ideas

[Jets4Life]

They're gonna be selling like hotcakes!

I'd rather buy that jersey than the 1995-96 "Highlander Fish Sticks" jersey the Islanders wore.

 

[Gaps]

I guess I value best on best over an event uber nationalists get to chest thump over.

And for parity team leftovers WILL be more competitive than " team cannon fodder".

How good is your pure international hockey tournament gonna be when it's rosters are full of AHL rejects and college kids?

This is not best-on-best, but a glorified all-star tournament and that game's always garbage. I for one hope that the leftover teams' players dog it completely, because that's what this tournament deserves.

 

[Scotty B]

This is not best-on-best, but a glorified all-star tournament and that game's always garbage. I for one hope that the leftover teams' players dog it completely, because that's what this tournament deserves.

NA young gunzzz won't dog it, they'll be all gung ho, bank on it. Those Boyz are gonna make some noise in this tourney...mark my words

As for the Euro all stars? ..think it depends on how many no shows they have, how many guys are torn between this tourney and OG qualifiers, yadda yadda.

If the Euro mixed-team gets anywhere near their best possible lineup, I expect them to go in with the mindset that...yeah, we can win this thing!

Despite all the neigh-sayers...This is a Big Stage...& Many Big-Time Players (ostensibly from team second billing ) Will come to play...some may even seize the opportunity to have their names indelibly etched in Hockey lore — as GIANT SLAYERS!

Time will tell...

 

[Theokritos]

As for the Euro all stars? ..think it depends on how many no shows they have, how many guys are torn between this tourney and OG qualifiers

According to the schedule, all of them will be torn. Except – the Slovaks and the Swiss...

 

[FiLe]

Despite all the neigh-sayers...This is a Big Stage...& Many Big-Time Players (ostensibly from team second billing ) Will come to play...some may even seize the opportunity to have their names indelibly etched in Hockey lore — as GIANT SLAYERS!

This nonsense carries the supposition that the "giants" will actually give a s**t while playing against Team Bettman's Brainfart.

Nations take pride in beating other nations. Leftovers or YoungGunz don't represent any nation, so there's little to be had while playing against these plasticy gimmicks. So sure, a made-up team with no natural fanbase possibly beating a squad that feels no connection whatsoever to their opponent will make a glorious chapter to the hockey lore.

Except – the Slovaks and the Swiss...

Most of whom have already voiced their displeasure against the idea.

Lookin' sooo good.

 

[Scotty B]

This nonsense carries the supposition that the "giants" will actually give a s**t while playing against Team Bettman's Brainfart.

Nations take pride in beating other nations. Leftovers or YoungGunz don't represent any nation, so there's little to be had while playing against these plasticy gimmicks. So sure, a made-up team with no natural fanbase possibly beating a squad that feels no connection whatsoever to their opponent will make a glorious chapter to the hockey lore.

Most of whom have already voiced their displeasure against the idea.

Lookin' sooo good.

Man LOTZ of the Young Gunzzz played either with or against each other, in the lower ranks, over the years. Some are friends, some are heated rivals, but with a grudging respect. Most will welcome the opportunity to renew old acquaintances. Team CAN-AM?...Team DEVIL'S BRIGADE?...should meld together QUICKLY & EASILY IMO!

As for the second bolded part...You forget how popular the World Juniors are over here...Arguably, the biggest reason the WHC's ( when we mainly sent subpar squads) held even a passing interest over here was the opportunity to see potentially future A team players shine on a Big Stage...

For many Canucks comme moi ( and doubtless for many stateside, but in reverse ) that doesn't just apply to Canada's Young Gunzz, but Yankee youngsters too. I relished the opportunity to see the likes of Jones, Larkin, Eichel and Vesey perform at WHC's...and THEY SURE DIDN'T DISAPPOINT!

You think team U23 won't have a rabid following, from bonafide GTA Hockey fans, and a size-able ( albeit considerably smaller ) contingent of Yankee visitors as well ...GUESS AGAIN!

***
As for Team Euro leftovers? If many are no shows, and if others don't seize the opportunity to shine on the Big Stage ...No Biggee?

Should Our Boyz ( aka U23's ) meet them and give them HOLY HELL... to the tune of 8-1 or smthg...I'd enjoy that immensely!

 

[FiLe]

Man LOTZ of the Young Gunzzz played either with or against each other, in the lower ranks, over the years. Some are friends, some are heated rivals, but with a grudging respect. Most will welcome the opportunity to renew old acquaintances. Team CAN-AM should meld together QUICKLY & EASILY IMO!

Way to go missing the point. I'm probably wasting my breath here, trying to explain this to someone like you, but eh...

The game stems from a dynamic between the two teams opposing each other on the ice. When you pit a "true" national team against a made-up opponent, the actual NT has no horse in the race, since there are no bragging rights involved. Finns won't remember the game vs. YoungGunz as warmly as they'd recall a heated battle against Sweden (or, to lesser extent, the Czechs or Americans or just about any other top-six nation), just like it sure as hell won't matter to Canada in the manner as if they were playing Russia. Matter of fact, how fast that team gels (or not) means zip, since there's likely no connection to the opposition AT ALL. "Oh man, we beat the YoungGunz!" or "Aw man, I hate losing to the YoungGunz!" "When do we face 'em again?" "Oh, right... never."

If you really think that will result in good hockey being played, your delusions must be running pretty deep.

 

[Theokritos]

Should our Boyz meet them and spank them silly...I'd enjoy that immensely!

Which of course is the entire point of the tournament...

Team CAN-AM should meld together QUICKLY & EASILY IMO!

Team Canadamerica?

 

[FDBluth]

If they wanted to make "gimmicky" teams, it would have been interesting to see regional Canadian teams. Like a Canada West, Ontario and Canada East. People would have still had regional affiliation that way.

I honestly don't think the current format is a terrible idea. No major tournament has tried something like this before, so what's the harm in trying it once? This will definitely be a spectacle; less about nationalism and rivalry and more about showcasing interesting hockey matchups. If it fails, then it fails and we never have to see it again.

 

[FDBluth]

Way to go missing the point. I'm probably wasting my breath here, trying to explain this to someone like you, but eh...

The game stems from a dynamic between the two teams opposing each other on the ice. When you pit a "true" national team against a made-up opponent, the actual NT has no horse in the race, since there are no bragging rights involved. Finns won't remember the game vs. YoungGunz as warmly as they'd recall a heated battle against Sweden (or, to lesser extent, the Czechs or Americans or just about any other top-six nation), just like it sure as hell won't matter to Canada in the manner as if they were playing Russia. Matter of fact, how fast that team gels (or not) means zip, since there's likely no connection to the opposition AT ALL. "Oh man, we beat the YoungGunz!" or "Aw man, I hate losing to the YoungGunz!" "When do we face 'em again?" "Oh, right... never."

If you really think that will result in good hockey being played, your delusions must be running pretty deep.

You don't think young players will want to prove that they're better than the old guys? And likewise, you don't think old guys will want to show the young guys who's boss?

Trying to prove yourself as a young player is one of the main expressions of athletic competition in everything from pickup games to trying to crack an NHL roster. I think it will make for an interesting dynamic. As I just said in my other post, from the fans' perspective, it will be more about the "spectacle" and less about picking a team to cheer for. Not something that hockey fans are too used to, but I think it will still be very interesting entertainment.

 

[FiLe]

You don't think young players will want to prove that they're better than the old guys? And likewise, you don't think old guys will want to show the young guys who's boss?

Except the "proper" NTs won't be made fully of "old" guys. They may have bunch of players who are close to 20 (or 23 in Canadians' and Americans' cases) and some who are 35 or even 40, and everything in between. Nationality is what connects them and separates them from the opposition, not age.

In most games you have Swedes against Finns, Canadians against Americans, Czechs against Russians and so forth. Then all of a sudden, you have Finns or Swedes against... what? "Young Guys"?

That makes about as much sense as having an animals' road race, and after the heat between fox and rabbit, the fox will next face the coffeemaker.

 

[sandysan]

Except the "proper" NTs won't be made fully of "old" guys. They may have bunch of players who are close to 20 (or 23 in Canadians' and Americans' cases) and some who are 35 or even 40, and everything in between. Nationality is what connects them and separates them from the opposition, not age.

In most games you have Swedes against Finns, Canadians against Americans, Czechs against Russians and so forth. Then all of a sudden, you have Finns or Swedes against... what? "Young Guys"?

That makes about as much sense as having an animals' road race, and after the heat between fox and rabbit, the fox will next face the coffeemaker.

Where was this concern for pure laine nationalism when players, largely born and bread in the great white north looked for the most tangential family life in order to play for some other country?

The people ragging against team leftover are doing nothing more than pre emptiness making excuses in case they get steamrolled.
That and they want to talk smack about a tourney because if it does succeed it.means two things, the olympics ends up losing mist if not all of its luster as 4th rate players get cheered on by nationalists who only care about the dregs of nation A beating the dregs if nation B, and the world shampionships fall below the spengler cup in terms of appeal.
As a fan of hockey, I want to see the best match ups. If this means that the Swiss. Latvians or Austrians are excluded, I'm sure that is going to keep me up at night worrying about it.

 

[FiLe]

The people ragging against team leftover are doing nothing more than pre emptiness making excuses in case they get steamrolled.

Used to get pretty mad when this load of crock showed up, but I now realise that the actual reason people use it is because one must have presented them with points they can't counter with sensible arguments.

 

[sandysan]

Used to get pretty mad when this load of crock showed up, but I now realise that the actual reason people use it is because one must have presented them with points they can't counter with sensible arguments.

So how many goals does " nationalism " score?

Right now the talent of team leftover will exceed that of several national teams who, left to their own accord, have realistically zero chance of being anything but cannon fodder.

To me, that is good. Because we all know that Brett hull ( and half of the Italian squad) really had no incentive to play hard for their newly adopted countries after they couldn't make the cut for canada.

We live in an increasingly blended society, where guys with names like Galvhenyuk play for the tanks. I'm sorry that player migration doesn't fit in with your anachronistic " us vs them" mentality that you seem to tie your national esteem on. Mabey you can hope for a war or two to sate that itch.

I'm a hockey fan, tourneys with most parity ( irrespective of nationalism) tickle my fancy and aside from the corrupt exploiting iihf/ioc, this tourney gets close enough for government work.

 

[FiLe]

To me, that is good. Because we all know that Brett hull ( and half of the Italian squad) really had no incentive to play hard for their newly adopted countries after they couldn't make the cut for canada.

It's not the same at all. What you (and that other guy right above you) don't seem to get is that when people normally switch jerseys, they're stuck with that new jersey 'til the end of their career.

If players selected to "YoungGunz" or "Leftovers" were to form new nations and continue representing that jersey in every tournament from here to eternity, nobody would complain. But since they will be back to representing Canada, USA, Switzerland, Slovakia or some other country once the next tournament rolls along, it really exposes these gimmicky teams for what they are... and does the same to your shoddy attempt to counter my point.

Players who switch jerseys still represent a nation - even if it's not one they (or their parents) were born in. These joke teams have nothing to do with representing a nation. There is no longevity involved with them and therefore there's no relationship either the fans or the players in the opposing team can form with them, be it love or hate. And it's that passion that means everything in events like this. If the level of players involved trumps everything, then you should just have another all-star event.

And that is also what makes these comments about "being afraid of beaten by a leftover squad" so laughable. Since there will be no fans from a country called "Leftovers" or "YoungGunz" reminding us about "how we beat you the last time", why should we care one way or the other whether our team wins or loses?

 

[Yakushev72]

Which of course is the entire point of the tournament...



Team Canadamerica?

Exactly the point! Except for those who have recently undergone frontal lobotomies, everyone else is going to expect a boring, uncontested summer farce. Given the fact that Canada has already won the last 2 Olympics, and that they will be playing in front of frenzied home fans with loyal native-born Canadian refs overseeing this travesty, everybody will automatically assume that Canada will trounce the opposition, and start searching for alternative channels broadcasting good cartoons.

Yes, it will be a Canadian jamboree that will delight the likes of Scotty B, but what about the poor chumps who have to wear the uniforms of the United States, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, etc., and get the blame and hate for their national symbols being abused while they are wearing them? Its too big a price to "do your part" for the NHL. The only upside is that the viewing audience should be close to 0% outside of Canada.

 

[sandysan]

Which of course is the entire point of the tournament...



Team Canadamerica?

It's not the same at all. What you (and that other brat right above you) don't seem to get is that when people normally switch jerseys, they're stuck with that new jersey 'til the end of their career.

If players selected to "YoungGunz" or "Leftovers" were to form new nations and continue representing that jersey in every tournament from here to eternity, nobody would complain. But since they will be back to representing Canada, USA, Switzerland, Slovakia or some other country once the next tournament rolls along, it really exposes these gimmicky teams for what they are... and does the same to your shoddy attempt to counter my point.

What you don't understand is that this is an invitational non iihf sanctioned tourney. If Vanek gets selected for team leftover, he's still perfectly free to stay out drinking with his mates for Austria at the whc when he no shows, again and the team that employs him gets dumped.

Your argument is asinine. That taking less talented players because the "represent" one nationality ( however tangentially) is akin to forcing NHL teams to have quotas of " petition gars de chez nous" so that the nationalistic ( xenophobic?) fans get to live vicariously through someone they identify with.

I don't need the habs to have Mtl players or French speaking coaches. But you have to realize that mabey of those nations already open their arms to naturalized players that give them a better chance of winning.

How teams of expats get put together ( by the government or by the team) is immaterial. What you are whining about is already happening.

team leftover has the best chance of advancing
That it might not give you the chance to puff out your chest for what could amount to a team of hockey mercenaries, concerns me not a whit.

 

[FiLe]

What you don't understand is that this is an invitational non iihf sanctioned tourney.

The thing is, it still pretends to be a "serious" international tournament. Like it was pointed out earlier, if it embraced its nature as a happy-go-lucky fun little sideshow like the Spengler Cup, people wouldn't be up in arms at all.

Your argument is asinine. That taking less talented players because the "represent" one nationality ( however tangentially) is akin to forcing NHL teams to have quotas of " petition gars de chez nous" so that the nationalistic ( xenophobic?) fans get to live vicariously through someone they identify with.

This "asinine" little point is the entire thing that makes having national teams worthwhile. If it really was just about having the best and most competitive teams possible, we could all stick to club team hockey.

 

[Yakushev72]

What you don't understand is that this is an invitational non iihf sanctioned tourney. If Vanek gets selected for team leftover, he's still perfectly free to stay out drinking with his mates for Austria at the whc when he no shows, again and the team that employs him gets dumped.

Your argument is asinine. That taking less talented players because the "represent" one nationality ( however tangentially) is akin to forcing NHL teams to have quotas of " petition gars de chez nous" so that the nationalistic ( xenophobic?) fans get to live vicariously through someone they identify with.

I don't need the habs to have Mtl players or French speaking coaches. But you have to realize that mabey of those nations already open their arms to naturalized players that give them a better chance of winning.

How teams of expats get put together ( by the government or by the team) is immaterial. What you are whining about is already happening.

team leftover has the best chance of advancing
That it might not give you the chance to puff out your chest for what could amount to a team of hockey mercenaries, concerns me not a whit.

"IIHF sanctioned?" That just means they lined the IIHF officials pockets to a sufficient degree that they won't try to get in their way.

We all have the right to speak here, but I just can't believe that you are relentlessly trying to press your argument that "team leftover" is anything other than a lame schedule-filler with no constituency, no fan base and no legitimate reason for existence. The premise that they might win the World Cup is beyond absurd! Not one poster believes that team leftover, featuring Anze Kopitar, Thomas Vanek and absolutely no one else, has even a chance to be competitive. I suggest that you abandon your argument before it starts protruding way too far toward the edge.

 

[sandysan]

The thing is, it still pretends to be a "serious" international tournament. Like it was pointed out earlier, if it embraced its nature as a happy-go-lucky fun little sideshow like the Spengler Cup, people wouldn't be up in arms at all.

This "asinine" little point is the entire thing that makes having national teams worthwhile. If it really was just about having the best and most competitive teams possible, we could all stick to club team hockey.

Or, teams with problems doing well can essentially buy players nationalities ( hello Viktor ahn and the Bahranian weight lifting team formerly known as the Bulgarian wright lifting team).

This isn't a national team, hockey Canada has little to do with it. Yes it would be nice if the best players from every country played each other and didn't rely on passport Olympians from what amounts to a very loose definition of diaspora, but that isn't happening. If you want THAT, petition the IOC to cut the players of ALL nations in on the gate.

But we know, for certain, that won't happen. So under these limitations, the nhl is assembling the VAST majority of the best players on the planet, and making teams that have no chance of winning, more competitive.

I mean you STILL have people defending the best of the rest world shampionships. To me the choice between MORE top end talent, or less ( under one loosely defined flag) is an easy one.

If you want to cheer for your country as they have no talent scrubs representing " you", you can get your fill from the next olympics as a bunch of has been sent and never were's raise the flag on your behalf.

 

[member 157595]

I haven't read through the thread, but this holocaust of an idea seems harmless as long as it is not supposed to represent a replacement to NHL participation in the Olympics.

If it is meant to replace a major international tournament, it may be the single stupidest hockey-related idea I have ever heard in my life.

 

[Yakushev72]

I haven't read through the thread, but this holocaust of an idea seems harmless as long as it is not supposed to represent a replacement to NHL participation in the Olympics.

If it is meant to replace a major international tournament, it may be the single stupidest hockey-related idea I have ever heard in my life.

It is intended to replace NHL participation in the Olympics, which will be held in East Asia in 2018 and 2022. The NHL hasn't made a formal announcement regarding the Olympics yet, but his statement in resurrecting the World Cup from the junk heap of hockey history as much as said so.

 

[Scotty B]

I haven't read through the thread, but this holocaust of an idea seems harmless as long as it is not supposed to represent a replacement to NHL participation in the Olympics.

If it is meant to replace a major international tournament, it may be the single stupidest hockey-related idea I have ever heard in my life.

If memory serves, the next winter Olympics is in Korea ( too lazy to check ) and my understanding is that NHL Brass seems very reticent to continue their involvement. NHL players are a different story. Vast majority seem to want to continue having NHLers represent their various nations at OG's. If so, and IF NHL Brass wants to continue this World Cup experiment, in whatever format ( which may well be subject to change ) players union has the option to use their continued participation in World Cup as a bargaining chip to help ensure NHLers/ league involvement at future OG's...

In other words, World Cup affect on future OG's is FAR more likely to be a positive one...

 

[JackSlater]

But we know, for certain, that won't happen. So under these limitations, the nhl is assembling the VAST majority of the best players on the planet, and making teams that have no chance of winning, more competitive.

Sounds great, too bad the NHL doesn't do that for the playoffs too. Imagine the Tim Horton's Timbits (featuring Giroux and Benn!) against the Kraft Macaroni Noodles (Will Thornton and Mealeau finally get a cup?!). All the leftover players who miss the playoffs could create several great teams.

If the goal is even competition, why have national teams? Just divide the NHL into eight teams for a tournament, and there will be more balance and a higher average talent level than this tournament will provide.

 

[ForumNamePending]

The format comes off as awkward and silly. If the objectives were additional revenue, on paper parity and trying to shoehorn in as many NHL'ers as possible while avoiding players from other leagues why not just pick 8 'GMs' or perhaps designate 8 captains and pick teams via a draft? What we have currently most likely means Lauri Korpikoski and Artem Anisimov will be playing in the WCup while Joe Thornton will be sitting at home. Perhaps it's time to swap out Finland or Russia for a over O31 NA team?