Team w/o Pietrangelo

[LetsGoBooze]

In terms of looking for a replacement D. I think the best option would be trading Dunn+ for a top pairing quality LHD who would (at least on paper) be a good partner for Faulk.

Would allow for a more balanced deployment of Faulk while Scandella-Parayko continue most of the heavy defensive lifting.

This.

 

[BlueSeal]

We could trade Steen for picks alone and easily afford whatever Pie asks and restock the farm. Could do the same with Allen on top of that and basically offer him a blank check with money left over without affecting anything else:

steen 6.5
Allen 4.3
Steen 5.75

Why don’t we just do this? With Faulk etc on the roster we end up with a bulletproof D Corps at the cost of only Steen. If we take a bad contract at least we’d be doing it with a top 10 Dman, an upgraded roster and DEFENDING the Stanley Cup. THIS imo is when you take a possibly bad contract, when the window just opens and you’re shoring up your keystone players, especially when this ones your double threat (offense and defense) Captain. Not many of those around to begin with.

 

[The Note]

We could trade Steen for picks alone and easily afford whatever Pie asks and restock the farm. Could do the same with Allen on top of that and basically offer him a blank check with money left over without affecting anything else:

steen 6.5
Allen 4.3
Steen 5.75

Why don’t we just do this? With Faulk etc on the roster we end up with a bulletproof D Corps at the cost of only Steen. If we take a bad contract at least we’d be doing it with a top 10 Dman, an upgraded roster and DEFENDING the Stanley Cup. THIS imo is when you take a possibly bad contract, when the window just opens and you’re shoring up your keystone players, especially when this ones your double threat (offense and defense) Captain. Not many of those around to begin with.

Moving Steen isn’t realistic with his salary, decline, and NTC. Moving Bozak and/or Allen is the more likely solution. But that’s been covered ad nauseam.

 

[Mike Liut]

It would take a 2nd rounder and 1/2 salary retention to move Steen.

Is this steen’s last year? Or one more?


Edit: just looked it up. One more year. Ughh.

sorry Alex, nothing personal, you’ve been a solid Blue.

 

[LUF]

I could see Steen going to Ottawa, they've been collecting contracts like this (those with higher cap hit than salary remaining) for a while now. That said, would Steen waive? Or can Steen develop an allergy to his hockey gear? (This is sad, I'm all for keeping Steen... at <2M)

So, back to the topic which is "what do we do if Pie is gone", I agree that making space for a top 4 LD is top priority. Parayko and Faulk are good enough on the right, but the left is too weak. Sadly, the list for UFA for LHD this year is very weak.

Let's check who's better than Dunn : https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2021/caphit/all/defense/all/desc/1/left

Boston have the space to resign Krug and even if they didn't we would have to move 2 of Bozak, Steen and Allen to pay, which is pretty much the same as Pie, which leaves Andy Greene (too old), TJ Brodie (might hit the market, but again, the price might be too high despite the lesser season he have, and I don't know if he's playing on the right side by choice or necessity right now), Kulikov (he should resign to WPG too) or, the most likely pick up : Edmundson (if the hurricanes doesnt get rid of Gardiner first, he should at around 4~5M on the market so that only requires one of the three players to move.) Am I missing anyone else?

So... I really hope Dunn can step up if Pie is gone or we'll have to work on a trade or be ok with Edmundson.

 

[MissouriMook]

Hard pass on Edmundson at the price he is going to get. I'm just not a fan of his play. I'd rather give the opportunity to Mikkola for $3M-$4M a year less.

 

[simon IC]

I could see Steen going to Ottawa, they've been collecting contracts like this (those with higher cap hit than salary remaining) for a while now. That said, would Steen waive? Or can Steen develop an allergy to his hockey gear? (This is sad, I'm all for keeping Steen... at <2M)

So, back to the topic which is "what do we do if Pie is gone", I agree that making space for a top 4 LD is top priority. Parayko and Faulk are good enough on the right, but the left is too weak. Sadly, the list for UFA for LHD this year is very weak.

Let's check who's better than Dunn : https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2021/caphit/all/defense/all/desc/1/left

Boston have the space to resign Krug and even if they didn't we would have to move 2 of Bozak, Steen and Allen to pay, which is pretty much the same as Pie, which leaves Andy Greene (too old), TJ Brodie (might hit the market, but again, the price might be too high despite the lesser season he have, and I don't know if he's playing on the right side by choice or necessity right now), Kulikov (he should resign to WPG too) or, the most likely pick up : Edmundson (if the hurricanes doesnt get rid of Gardiner first, he should at around 4~5M on the market so that only requires one of the three players to move.) Am I missing anyone else?

So... I really hope Dunn can step up if Pie is gone or we'll have to work on a trade or be ok with Edmundson.

Wow, I really disagree with the bolded. Parayko is a stud, but Faulk? I think you are setting the bar pretty low.

 

[67Blues]

Faulk probably had his worst year as a pro. I'll give him this coming season to prove that he can step up to the second line. Some players can hit the ground running when traded, others take a season to fit in and rediscover their mojo.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Hard pass on Edmundson at the price he is going to get. I'm just not a fan of his play. I'd rather give the opportunity to Mikkola for $3M-$4M a year less.

I’m not entirely convinced that if they made the same amount, I wouldn’t prefer Mikkola going forward.

 

[The Note]

I can understand the line of thinking of trading him for a LHD upgrade if Pietrangelo were to walk, but I'd rather they sign Dunn to something like a 2 year, $1.75- $2 million AAV deal in that case. Should Pietrangelo walk I would hope they give Dunn and Kyrou every chance to prove they can take on more responsibility an reassess where they stand next offseason cap and player-wise, then go from there.

If it takes Dunn to get some team to take on Bozak and/or Allen with a positive asset coming back and to keep Petro here, so be it. Otherwise I hope they hang on to him and that he can take that next step.

 

[LUF]

But that's the thing : we enter the next year with Scandella, Gunnarson, Dunn and Mikkola for LHD. I guess the playoff will help show us if any of those can elevate their play enough to instill enough confidence that a new guy on LHD is not required if Pie walks away, and that's most likely Armstrong plan.

There's also a need for a depth guy for RHD as, as much as I'm ok with Parayko, Faulk (yeah, he's far from very good, but in a context where he is the worst of the top 4 if we get another LHD, I think it's good enough) and Bortuzzo, what's left is Reinke and Dotchin, but that's a lot easier to find than a top 4 LHD this year.

We're in a hot mess.

 

[Brian39]

He asked for examples, I never said the acquisition of said coaches was reasonable.

But Berube isn’t without flaw, so I don’t see what your point is. The playoff run has nothing to do with the near full season we saw from October to March, where the teams 5 v 5 offense was subpar. You can relay that to Tarasenko missing the season, but one player carrying a teams entire 5 v 5 offense also doesn’t bode confidence.

Let’s not forget a coach taking over mid-season and starting out in training camp is a different ball game.

The Blues were 12th in 5 on 5 goals scored this season. That is just not "subpar." We can debate about whether that is good enough, but you are just incorrect that the offense was subpar this season.

If Tarasenko's presence bumps the team offense up by 5 even strength goals, then we would be sitting in 7th. A top 10 goal scorer in the league should boost a team's total offensive output by at least 5 goals and that would be far from 1 guy "carrying a teams entire 5 v 5 offense."

 

[BlueDream]

But that's the thing : we enter the next year with Scandella, Gunnarson, Dunn and Mikkola for LHD. I guess the playoff will help show us if any of those can elevate their play enough to instill enough confidence that a new guy on LHD is not required if Pie walks away, and that's most likely Armstrong plan.

There's also a need for a depth guy for RHD as, as much as I'm ok with Parayko, Faulk (yeah, he's far from very good, but in a context where he is the worst of the top 4 if we get another LHD, I think it's good enough) and Bortuzzo, what's left is Reinke and Dotchin, but that's a lot easier to find than a top 4 LHD this year.

We're in a hot mess.

Are we? We have a top 5 defensive group in the NHL. Yes that will change if Petro walks, but maybe saying we're a hot mess is just a bit of a stretch.

 

[Brian39]

Not the Avs...

They have EJ on the right side locked up at $6M for another 3 years and Makar also plays the right side. With his injury history and limited NTC (11 team no-trade list), EJ is really tough to move in a trade with a flat cap. He also has a NMC, so he can't be exposed in expansion. Makar is their #1D man of the future and EJ is a very good 2nd pairing guy on the right side. They aren't in need of a top 4 RD and even though Petro would be a noticeable upgrade over EJ, it doesn't make much sense to heave a huge contract at Petro AND retain the salary needed to move EJ in a trade.

Additionally, while they could fit Petro under the cap next year (and for a few years), they have a lot of big raises coming up in the next few years. Makar will be due a massive raise after next season. They will have to pay a couple more LD because Girard is the only one under contract after this season. Landeskog is due a raise after next season. Burkovsky will get a sizeable raise this summer or will sign a 1-2 year deal and then be due a larger raise soon. And then you have MacKinnon who will get a $5M+ raise in 2023 even if he takes a discount.

Heaving a big contract at Petro puts them in a tough cap situation in 2-3 years. If they are going to bring in a high priced guy that causes them cap headaches down the line, upgrading their already good RD isn't the place to do it.

Colorado could sign Petro, but it doesn't make a ton of sense for them. If they are going to heave money at a UFA D man, they should target LD Torey Krug. He will be cheaper than Petro and fills more of a need for them than Petro would.

 

[simon IC]

Are we? We have a top 5 defensive group in the NHL. Yes that will change if Petro walks, but maybe saying we're a hot mess is just a bit of a stretch.

I would still like a solid RD prospect, one who is at least two years away.

 

[The Note]

I would still like a solid RD prospect, one who is at least two years away.

The Blues are pretty good at drafting/developing defenseman, I wouldn't fret too much. Will they land another Pietrangelo or Parayko? I wouldn't bet on it. But I bet they walk away with at least one defenseman within their first 3 picks.

 

[LUF]

Are we? We have a top 5 defensive group in the NHL. Yes that will change if Petro walks, but maybe saying we're a hot mess is just a bit of a stretch.

Just somewhat. Without Petro, the top 4 is average at best with Parayko being the only shiny thing there. Scandella and Faulk can be good enough for it, Dunn have everything to prove. The problem is the cap space and it's a bad year to have that problem. Basically, we will have 1 or 2 years with the same cap, contrary to any teams before us who had their peak/cap problem, so there isn't new space created to alleviate the problem. It might get harder to trade bad contracts. Some teams might not be able to spend to the cap anymore because their owner(s) suddenly have less money and there's teams that want to keep some space for trade deadline acquisition that didn't get more space for a new player before that. I'm not saying it will impossible to do trades, but I wouldn't be surprised if the cost to get rid of a bad contracts just raised and if it's the case, prepare to be unhappy with those trades if we manage to do them and that's a problem even if we want to keep Pie.

 

[Juicemeister]

It’s very hard to envision a scenario where he leaves and the team isn’t a lot worse. He’s the franchise defenseman and obviously a key cog for the group.

I also just don’t really understand why the FO prioritized Justin Faulk and Marco Scandella (combined 9.775 cap hit) over him. They aren’t as important to the team success as him and it’s much easier to replace depth defensemen then a high end defenseman. Scandella hasn’t played 15 games yet with the team and Faulk didn’t play any when he signed. It’s just a frustrating scenario.

 

[The Note]

It’s very hard to envision a scenario where he leaves and the team isn’t a lot worse. He’s the franchise defenseman and obviously a key cog for the group.

I also just don’t really understand why the FO prioritized Justin Faulk and Marco Scandella (combined 9.775 cap hit) over him. They aren’t as important to the team success as him and it’s much easier to replace depth defensemen then a high end defenseman. Scandella hasn’t played 15 games yet with the team and Faulk didn’t play any when he signed. It’s just a frustrating scenario.

Scandella is taking Bouwmeester’s spot and seemed to fit like a glove with Parayko in a relatively small sample size. No problem there especially since he’s making roughly what J-Bo was anyway. The Faulk extension will forever baffle me.

 

[LUF]

Scandella will be fine. Saw him a lot and he was rarely ever the problem. I like the Scandella-Parayko pairing.

The thing is, Faulk is not a very good passer; he's more a shooter with ok-ish def and when he was correctly utilized for that on the PP was when he had success in Carolina. A lot of his assists came from shots he did that was either redirected, rebounded, etc. I guess a responsible enough defensemen who can move the puck better than him is what's needed on Faulk's left side if we want to optimize want we have with him. I still hope Dunn can become that, but I have my doubts and we're definitely not contenders anymore if that's our top4.

 

[The Note]

The Blues were 12th in 5 on 5 goals scored this season. That is just not "subpar." We can debate about whether that is good enough, but you are just incorrect that the offense was subpar this season.

If Tarasenko's presence bumps the team offense up by 5 even strength goals, then we would be sitting in 7th. A top 10 goal scorer in the league should boost a team's total offensive output by at least 5 goals and that would be far from 1 guy "carrying a teams entire 5 v 5 offense."

To add on this, they really only had a bad October. From November through the stoppage they were a top 10 team in both GF% (second behind COL) and xGF% at 5-on-5. They were streaky as a team, but certainly not below average 5-on-5.

 

[Ranksu]

Pietro doing his thing, being monster at playoffs. Game 5 he played almost 4min more than other Vegas dmen. 7 shots on net, 2 hits and 4 blocks. and 0+1.

Hopefully he will win another Cup. He is captain clutch. Playing best hockey when it matters.

St. Louis biggest mistake let him walk for nothing. He should have retire as Bluenote.

 

[Blueline2757]

Pietro doing his thing, being monster at playoffs. Game 5 he played almost 4min more than other Vegas dmen. 7 shots on net, 2 hits and 4 blocks. and 0+1.

Hopefully he will win another Cup. He is captain clutch. Playing best hockey when it matters.

St. Louis biggest mistake let him walk for nothing. He should have retire as Bluenote.

I agree. One of the biggest blunders EVER!!! I must admit I hate Vegas but I want them win.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

It’s gonna be a long summer around here isn’t it?

 

[Ranksu]

It’s gonna be a long summer around here isn’t it?

No.

Its going to be long next 50-years.