Team toughness

[Trxjw]

True all the team in the league are shaking in their collective boots now after watching the Rangers dismantle the Caps game plan by letting their players get run over with no response. Bring on the cup.

Going to go out on a limb and say the team cares more about a win than they do about making other teams shake in their boots. But who cares about that when you think they need more face-punching, right?

 

[Miller Time NYR]

You don't wait to go after a guy . Every player go over to the guy right when it happens . It forces the refs to call it the hit, if no one on the ice has a problem with it most of the time the refs shake it off. But if everyone gets Inraged on the ice it forces the refs to call it to keep control of the game. And if you end up short handed you tell the refs to call the game correctly or it's gonna get out of hand.

Did any of you guys play in any kind of organized hockey

Edit: it shouldn't be a goon, it comes from the whole team. These players play a contact sport , and make loads of money doing so ... They can get dirty once in a while

So despite the fact that the ref immediately started yelling it was incidental contact , that Brouwer was skating off the ice and didn't see him, and then going and explaining it to the bench all the while nobody on the ice knew what even happened because it was behind the play, but starting a big scrum was supposed to force the ref to make a call? The trailing ref saw the play happen if the call was going to be made he would have made it, starting a huge scrum IMO would have done nothing but put the caps on a powerplay

 

[Trxjw]

You don't wait to go after a guy . Every player go over to the guy right when it happens . It forces the refs to call it the hit, if no one on the ice has a problem with it most of the time the refs shake it off. But if everyone gets Inraged on the ice it forces the refs to call it to keep control of the game. And if you end up short handed you tell the refs to call the game correctly or it's gonna get out of hand.

Did any of you guys play in any kind of organized hockey

Edit: it shouldn't be a goon, it comes from the whole team. These players play a contact sport , and make loads of money doing so ... They can get dirty once in a while

I played bantam field hockey. Does that count?

Seriously, in all my years of playing, I never once had a coach say "Hey, nice job for running that guy and putting us on the PK. At least they know they can't mess with us now!" Where did this delusional idea come from that jumping a guy after a cheapshot is going to get him thrown in the box even if there was no call prior to the scrum?

 

[Off Sides]

Are you seriously suggesting that, due to an accidental collision at center ice, other teams around the NHL are licking their chops thinking the Rangers are ripe to be run over?

You're making way too much out of this.

No I am suggesting that there is something wrong with the Rangers when they do not react to one of their players being crushed, cleanly, accidentally or otherwise. It's happened often enough and they literally do nothing. They are scared.

Other teams do in fact take note of what teams are soft in the NHL, some players, Thornton comes to mind, even go as far as to mention it.

In a 7 game series against one of these teams, why would they hesitate to take whatever liberties they want against the more skilled Rangers players knowing there will be no response form them?

You think what Brouwer did was an accident? Sure every NHL player has no idea where the others are on the ice especially when they are looking right at them.

How about Kaleta Richards, Lucic the other mentioned in this thread?

I question if some of you guys even watch the other games, I've seen it several times this year alone where teammates respond to stuff they don't like whether that be a perceived dirty hit, a dirty hit or just some opposition player messing with their more talented guys. Many here seem to think what the Rangers do is the norm, it's not.

This team lack something just about every other NHL team in the league has, the ability to say screw the penalties, I have to stick up form my teammates. It's pretty important is you ask me, usually it's a trait that goes along with a good team.

 

[Miller Time NYR]

I played bantam field hockey. Does that count?

Seriously, in all my years of playing, I never once had a coach say "Hey, nice job for running that guy and putting us on the PK. At least they know they can't mess with us now!" Where did this delusional idea come from that jumping a guy after a cheapshot is going to get him thrown in the box even if there was no call prior to the scrum?

In all my years of water polo anytime I started trying to drown an opponent after a play I thought was illegal the refs usually ended up calling the penalty when we came back up to the surface ...

 

[Inferno]

the single best way to combat a lack of toughness is to have an elite power play. teams arent going to take liberties with you if you can put goals past them on the PP.

 

[Miller Time NYR]

the single best way to combat a lack of toughness is to have an elite power play. teams arent going to take liberties with you if you can put goals past them on the PP.

very few people seam to understand this, people bring up the blackhawks for being a soft team but winning the cup and that was in large part due to the fact that that team responded to dirty hits with goals, their powerplay was always a threat and rather than the thought of physical retaliation their opponents had to think about the scoreboard which hurts alot more

 

[Kakko]

Obviously we should have assaulted Brouwer and given the best powerplay team in the league a long powerplay in the 3rd period

 

[Callafan24]

Team grit, toughness, and willingness to create an identity and stand up for each other is one of the roster's biggest weaknesses as currently constructed. Given our skill set, we need to be bigger and tougher to compete. We need to be tougher for opponents to play against.

In 2011-2012 we had Prust, Rupp, Bickel, Dubi, and to an extent Sauer and Avery willing to go to war for their team. And you know what, with that personnel Tort's created a team that was better than the sum of its parts. They stood up for themselves and each other, and forced opponents to match their intensity level. They dictated play, and along with our top 6 forwards, top 4 D, and number 1 goalie, we found success this organization hasn't seen in years. The rest of the team played bigger and more confident hockey; Boyle, Cally, Fedotenko, Girardi, McD, DZ and co all played with more of an edge knowing that any confrontation would be met with five blue jerseys.

Fast forward to today. Since Asham was waived, Dorsett is the only SOB willing to initiate out there. He's a valuable piece, but he doesn't scare anyone. Look at the liberties other teams are taking out there. Call the Nash and Stepan hits whatever you like, but if Gaborik and Anisimov were hit up high and injured you bet your ass 8, 17, 71, or really anyone for that matter, would jump in to defend. And it's not only about retaliating after the fact; it's drawing a line and setting a precedent for your opponents to respect or suffer the consequences.

The solution is not nearly as out of reach as it seems. I firmly believe we would be a much tougher hockey club to face if we called up Michael Haley and traded one of our FA's in a package for a tough top-9 Horton, Bickell, Clowe, Iginla type.

Haley, Dorsett, 20 or so games of Falk, Boyle, Callahan, and a Steve Ott type changes the dynamic of this roster.

If the rest of our lineup, particularly our D, follows suit and elevates their physical game we have the personnel to be just fine.

Here's my lines when healthy:

Hagelin Stepan Nash
Richards Brassard Callahan
XXX Miller Zuccarello
Haley Moore/Boyle Dorsett

Pouliot, Pyatt

 

[savebyrichter94]

Like I said earlier everyone keeps focusing on just fighting alone when it's players with size and grit who take the body, initiate instead of reacting and who keep opponents honest that are missing.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

I miss Colton Orr.

 

[Callafan24]

Like I said earlier everyone keeps focusing on just fighting alone when it's a lack of players with size and grit who take the body, initiate instead of reacting and keep opponents honest that is missing.

I agree. Toughness is a team concept. I just think we need another one or two guys to do the heavy lifting and everyone else to be aggressive, finish their checks, and play like its the playoffs every night.

 

[Leetch66]

I don't think it was accidental because Brouwer leads the Caps in hits and he had all kinds of time to alter his own movement to avoid Stepan . I'm also pretty sure that if somebody engaged Brouwer in a scrap he would oblige and not lose the respect of his teammates unlike our current Rangers who just stand around and watch...at the worst our guy might get an extra 2 minutes...well worth it in the long run . Lack of toughness on our team will cost us a spot in the playoffs this season as we continue to allow the perpetrators to go unpunished . Dagoon has nailed it .

 

[Crease]

I think retaliation is as much about bringing the team together as it is about sending a message to the other team. I'm pro-retaliation but you have to properly pick your spots.

 

[Lion Hound]

Going to go out on a limb and say the team cares more about a win than they do about making other teams shake in their boots. But who cares about that when you think they need more face-punching, right?

So you think the right move was no move at all regarding the Stepan hit?

Personally I think it shows an alarming lack of team unity. Can't let em take liberties... At all!

 

[Callagraves]

I miss Colton Orr.

Ah yes. Colton "three times more fights than points" Orr.

Exactly what this team needs.

 

[Lion Hound]

Ah yes. Colton "three times more fights than points" Orr.

Exactly what this team needs.

Or they can continue as is and let their $7.8 million dollar top producer sit out nursing his 2nd concussion in as many season. Both of which at the hands of players who were able to take liberties w/out so much as a glove to the face afterwards. Point producers do wonders from the pressbox!

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

very few people seam to understand this, people bring up the blackhawks for being a soft team but winning the cup and that was in large part due to the fact that that team responded to dirty hits with goals, their powerplay was always a threat and rather than the thought of physical retaliation their opponents had to think about the scoreboard which hurts alot more

Chicago's powerplay was relatively pedestrian compared to other high scoring teams. They scored on the PP 1% more than we did and we all know how our PP was last year. They were a soft team with an average to below average powerplay and they won the cup. The Detroit team that won the cup pretty much never fought and were pretty soft, by HFBoards standard. Since the lockout, the number of tough and soft teams to win the cup is pretty similar.

Of course, we're not at the offensive level of those teams but that's what we're trying to build to. Those teams (and Vancouver) are the model and those teams were extremely successful.

I was screaming for retaliation after the Stepan hit but after doing the research, I'm fairly certain that being a tough team has nothing to do winning games.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think retaliation is as much about bringing the team together as it is about sending a message to the other team. I'm pro-retaliation but you have to properly pick your spots.

I prefer to be proactive. Hit everything you see. Every shift.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Or they can continue as is and let their $7.8 million dollar top producer sit out nursing his 2nd concussion in as many season. Both of which at the hands of players who were able to take liberties w/out so much as a glove to the face afterwards. Point producers do wonders from the pressbox!

Tie Domi, Bob Probert, Tiger Williams with a dash of the Son of Sam couldn't have prevented those hits on Nash.

 

[Rangers ftw]

So you think the right move was no move at all regarding the Stepan hit?

Personally I think it shows an alarming lack of team unity. Can't let em take liberties... At all!

As mentioned before, to give Caps a PP when defending 2-0 in the 3rd would only have showed other teams that we have no disciplin and we might have ended up loosing. Simply not worth it.

 

[Callagraves]

Or they can continue as is and let their $7.8 million dollar top producer sit out nursing his 2nd concussion in as many season. Both of which at the hands of players who were able to take liberties w/out so much as a glove to the face afterwards. Point producers do wonders from the pressbox!

Yes, because teams with enforcers never have their players hit.

It's a myth. It's an old myth. Dirty players don't care who's on the other team because, guess what: They don't have to fight them.

That's right. They can simply not drop the gloves.

Look at Lucic and Landeskog. Lando just doesn't fight him. Says "nah." Lucic tries to goad him, takes an extra minor and a game misconduct. Game is suddenly out of reach for Boston.

The age of enforcers is dead and gone. Fighting is part of the game, but it's not the massive factor it may have once been.

 

[Wolfy*]

Speaking about toughness...

This happened in the Swedish Elite League last night. Notice the refs, maybe we need tougher refs in the NHL. I really like ref #6 and his head lock, the player shocked

 

[savebyrichter94]

Yes, because teams with enforcers never have their players hit.
It's a myth. It's an old myth. Dirty players don't care who's on the other team because, guess what: They don't have to fight them.

That's right. They can simply not drop the gloves.

Look at Lucic and Landeskog. Lando just doesn't fight him. Says "nah." Lucic tries to goad him, takes an extra minor and a game misconduct. Game is suddenly out of reach for Boston.

The age of enforcers is dead and gone. Fighting is part of the game, but it's not the massive factor it may have once been.

Who said they don't get hit? The only myth here is your ignorant statement. It's about responding and standing up for yourself and your teammates when liberties are taken. I don't even know why I'm really responding because too many here just don't get it. People keep making these ridiculous statements about goons and being worried about taking an extra penalty etc. while ignoring that it's not just about fighting, you can respond by hitting their top players back or at the very least getting in a guys face.

Maybe last night wasn't one of those instances but what about all the other times when it clearly was and this team collectively tucked tail? Sometimes you have to pick your spots but you don't set a precedent that running your guys, especially your top skill players is acceptable.

I know one thing, judging from some responses in this thread I wouldn't want a lot of you on my team that's for sure! This is hockey, responding in these types of situations should be instinctual!

 

[Callagraves]

Who said they don't get hit? The only myth here is your ignorant statement. It's about responding and standing up for yourself and your teammates when liberties are taken. I don't even know why I'm really responding because too many here just don't get it. People keep making these ridiculous statements about goons and being worried about taking an extra penalty etc. while ignoring that it's not just about fighting,
You can respond by hitting their top players back or at the very least getting in a guys face.

Maybe last night wasn't one of those instances but what about all the other times when it clearly was and this team collectively tucked tail? Sometimes you have to pick your spots but you don't set a precedent that running your guys, especially your top skill players is acceptable.

I know one thing, judging from some responses in this thread I wouldn't want a lot of you on my team that's for sure! This is hockey, responding in these types of situations should be instinctual!

1) The person I'm responding to implied that having a goon would act as a deterrent. I'm disagreeing.

2) The text in bold makes zero sense. I'm calling the deterrent effect of an enforcer a myth. You respond that my assertion is a myth. Wouldn't you simply say that what I'm calling a myth is actually true?

3) Where did I suggest a team sticking up for each other is a bad thing? Standing up and taking a penalty on retaliation in that situation is a TERRIBLE idea. By all accounts, the majority of our players wanted at Brouwer, but AV held them back.

In other cases, a teammate stepping up and challenging an offender DEFINITELY has it's point. Early in a game, when a game is out of reach, really, most situations that isn't protecting a 2 goal lead against the team with the best powerplay in the league when the team hasn't won a point in THREE GAMES STRAIGHT. That win was mandatory. We needed out of a tail spin.

Don't think that this team "tucks tail". They're grown men, professional atheletes, hockey players no less. Do you really want to suggest that men who happily throw themselves in front of frozen, vulcanized rubber launched at 100 miles per hour on a regular basis are afraid of getting into a fight in a situation where NEITHER participant has any foot traction whatsoever?

4) And I really hate to be so petty, but it's damn near impossible to take a poster seriously when their username ends in "420".