Team toughness

[Doctyl]

Which is something that nobody said so what's your point? Oh wait, there wasn't one.

"And maybe those hits were unpreventable, however an answer to those hits was prevented because I guess it's for the better if the team turns cheek to get the W. It's not like they need those extra goals that a guy like Nash would provide anyway. Let the powerplay get r done!"

that sounds a lot like if we didnt turn the other cheek nash wouldnt be injured

 

[Doctyl]

Attacking Lucic last year maybe would have made Stuart think twice before hitting him high.

so beating the **** out of lucic for a completely legal hit last year would have stopped nash from getting injured this year? do you really think stuart thought that far in advance about hitting nash. i highly doubt that was a premeditated instance where he would have had time to think about a game between 2 east coast teams where a player had a big hit on a star and no one answered back. killing lucic last year would not have solved anything.

 

[savebyrichter94]

"And maybe those hits were unpreventable, however an answer to those hits was prevented because I guess it's for the better if the team turns cheek to get the W. It's not like they need those extra goals that a guy like Nash would provide anyway. Let the powerplay get r done!"

that sounds a lot like if we didnt turn the other cheek nash wouldnt be injured

He believes it's still better to send a message physically instead of constantly turning the other cheek. Players will always get hurt but not doing anything when those hits they get injured on are illegal certainly doesn't make anyone think twice about making those hits. This is a mentality that has been present in the sport from day one, you run our guys or take cheap shots and you will have to answer for it. To just ignore that fact is ignorant. It shows other teams that we stand up for each other and possibly plants a seed of doubt when it comes to taking liberties instead of setting a precedent that it's basically ok to do so and that we won't even get in your face about it let alone respond with equal force. It was a tongue in cheek response to people saying that the power play is the ultimate payback and deterrent to people getting hit or injured.

Furthermore, that's not even what the comment of mine that you responded to was taking issue with. You said going after Stuart wouldn't make Nash come back any sooner which isn't at all what was said.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Attacking Lucic last year maybe would have made Stuart think twice before hitting him high.

Riiiight.

 

[savebyrichter94]

so beating the **** out of lucic for a completely legal hit last year would have stopped nash from getting injured this year? do you really think stuart thought that far in advance about hitting nash. i highly doubt that was a premeditated instance where he would have had time to think about a game between 2 east coast teams where a player had a big hit on a star and no one answered back. killing lucic last year would not have solved anything.

Stuart is on a team who's captain called us out in the media for being soft. You don't think Thorton could have possibly brought that up in the room and that doing so would give Stuart a little extra confidence that he could cross the line without fear of retribution? What Thorton said was something that has been said about the Rangers throughout their history. It's a reputation born out of constantly turning the other cheek. Responding to Lucic alone might not send Stuart a message but being known as a soft team around the league that almost never responds certainly sends one and it's not a message you want being sent to players who like to take liberties and cross the line. That's why it's important to stand up each and every time, if you waver or are inconsistent players will look to exploit that. At some point you need to start proving that the stereotype about us is wrong or people will always feel it's ok to cheap shot us. We started to do that 2 years ago and then we abandoned it.

Also, just because no penalty was called on that Lucic hit doesn't mean it wasn't close to being or down right was illegal. He drove Nash's head into the glass from behind. You can't always expect the refs to call it and that's why fighting has always been a part of the game so the players can police themselves for actions they feel cross the line that refs may not.

 

[savebyrichter94]

What some people are basically saying is that if a player runs one of our guys and injures them it's better to just ignore it than to respond to it regardless of if it will prevent further injuries or illegal hits. That's a sad mindset for a hockey team to have, if you take a cheap shot you should have to answer for it period! That's what I meant about not wanting people who think that way on my team.

It would sound like this on the bench or in the room: Hey guys, player x just injured player y on a cheap shot what should we do? Well doing something won't prevent him from ever getting run or injured again so we might as well just let it go. That's just a disgusting sentiment in my opinion.

 

[Dalagaze]

What some people are basically saying is that if a players runs one of our guys and injures them it's better to just ignore it than to respond to it regardless of if it will prevent further injuries or illegal hits. That's a sad mindset for a hockey team to have, if you take a cheap shot you should have to answer for it period! That's what I meant about not wanting people who think that way on my team.

It would sound like this: Hey guys, player x just boarded player y what should we do? Well doing something won't prevent him from ever getting run again so we might as well just let it go. That's just a disgusting sentiment in my opinion.

My personal favorite is the "But we'd take a stupid penalty and negate the PP!" excuse. At that point, who gives a **** about whether or not we'll have a PP? You stick up for your teammate.

 

[savebyrichter94]

My personal favorite is the "But we'd take a stupid penalty and negate the PP!" excuse. At that point, who gives a **** about whether or not we'll have a PP? You stick up for your teammate.

Exactly, it's a pretty shameful point of view.

 

[Dalagaze]

Exactly, it's a pretty shameful point of view.

Besides, it's not like we're gonna score on the PP

 

[True Blue]

Attacking Lucic last year maybe would have made Stuart think twice before hitting him high.

Yes, because such actions have such long histories.......

 

[True Blue]

What some people are basically saying is that if a player runs one of our guys and injures them it's better to just ignore it than to respond to it regardless of if it will prevent further injuries or illegal hits.

I think that people are saying is that not ignoring it will not prevent any further hits against our players. Nor is it necessary to have a 5 minute a game goon on your team. You an "retaliate" with physical play against similar players on the other team. Yes, there are times that dropping the gloves is necessary. But dropping them will not prevent anything.

Right now, the Rangers are a soft, easy team to play against. Much like AV's Canucks were.

 

[savebyrichter94]

Yes, because such actions have such long histories.......

We actually have quite the long history of not taking action which is the problem. Some fans seem to have accepted the stigma that we are a soft little bunch of smurfs who won't defend ourselves. I refuse to accept that and the players should to.

 

[savebyrichter94]

I think that people are saying is that not ignoring it will not prevent any further hits against our players. Nor is it necessary to have a 5 minute a game goon on your team. You an "retaliate" with physical play against similar players on the other team. Yes, there are times that dropping the gloves is necessary. But dropping them will not prevent anything.

Right now, the Rangers are a soft, easy team to play against. Much like AV's Canucks were.

Of course it won't prevent players from ever being hit, this is a contact sport. What you should always do though is respond with equal force or people think they can walk all over you, this is true in both life and sports.

I also said that dressing a 5 minute a night goon does nothing, that it has to be a team wide response. I did say that you can respond with laying the body as well as fighting which I was then ridiculed for because if we hit them back then we might take a penalty lol

 

[True Blue]

We actually have quite the long history of not taking such action which is the problem. Some fans seem to have accepted the stigma that we are a soft little bunch of smurfs who won't defend ourselves. I refuse to accept that and the players should to.

You are right on the history. Part of that is mindset. Some of the integral part of the core that was here that brought the "stick up" mentality is gone (Dubinsky, Prust). The Rangers have had MANY Pouilliots skate around for many years.

Kennan's teams have always had a different mindset. Tortarellas teams have had different mind sets. The dark years had some tough players, but they were always imported and there was no cohesion in the clubhouse. The core that was brought up here in the last 5 years, always played together and all bought into the team first concept. And the mentality that Tortarella instilled. The mindset that he brought was a refreshing breath of fresh air. But more so, the style of play dictated that.

 

[Off Sides]

Kronwall Detroit last night, response, Ericsson threw McLeod to the ice, a small scrum.

Jonathan Ericsson: 2 Minutes for Roughing

Did Detroit fold? Did they proceed to give up 9 goals like the Rangers did after Nash was hit?

While throwing him down was a small response to the hit, at least someone got in his face. Did it prove anything, not really except that Detroit will not just stand around like they are checking their twitter accounts on the ice as one of their teammates is injured.

Detroit is not full of toughness either, but they seem to at least care a bit when liberties are taken.

Is it going to stop the Avs or any other team from playing tough, absolutely not but it's not going to have an ill effect on the Wings either watching their teammates go down without at least a small response.

Playing with confidence is a big thing in Hockey, wondering if your teammates have your back or not sure is not going to lead to playing with it.

 

[savebyrichter94]

You are right on the history. Part of that is mindset. Some of the integral part of the core that was here that brought the "stick up" mentality is gone (Dubinsky, Prust). The Rangers have had MANY Pouilliots skate around for many years.

Kennan's teams have always had a different mindset. Tortarellas teams have had different mind sets. The dark years had some tough players, but they were always imported and there was no cohesion in the clubhouse. The core that was brought up here in the last 5 years, always played together and all bought into the team first concept. And the mentality that Tortarella instilled. The mindset that he brought was a refreshing breath of fresh air. But more so, the style of play dictated that.

I agree. I don't want to see us turn our back on that mindset when we finally started to instill it and make it part of the fabric of this team but I fear we already have to a large degree. I think players should be capable of having that mindset no matter who the coach is but it seems certain players need to be reminded to do so because it's not a natural instinct or reaction for them. We have too many of those types of players on this team at the moment. You can make a trade to bring someone in but one guy very rarely changes that on his own if others won't follow his lead.

Our best hope right now is that Mcilrath is able to play a regular shift at this level soon and that we continue to draft and develop players who show they have that type of mentality. I'm hesitant to throw any young guys into the fire too early but we do have a few players down in Hartford that can play with an edge. The organization seems to feel they either aren't ready or that it's better to have guys like Pouliot etc. who have skill but rarely ever bring it and whom provide nothing else if they're not doing so.

At the very least Haley should be on this team especially with Asham gone. Then you could play a kid like Miller for example, who actually has a future with this team and is hungry to compete, in Pouliot's spot where his skill set would be better utilized. This would also allow someone like Haley or even Mashinter to skate on that 4th line which they are better suited for.

 

[savebyrichter94]

Kronwall Detroit last night, response, Ericsson threw McLeod to the ice, a small scrum.

Jonathan Ericsson: 2 Minutes for Roughing

Did Detroit fold? Did they proceed to give up 9 goals like the Rangers did after Nash was hit?

While throwing him down was a small response to the hit, at least someone got in his face. Did it prove anything, not really except that Detroit will not just stand around like they are checking their twitter accounts on the ice as one of their teammates is injured.

Detroit is not full of toughness either, but they seem to at least care a bit when liberties are taken.

Is it going to stop the Avs or any other team from playing tough, absolutely not but it's not going to have an ill effect on the Wings either watching their teammates go down without at least a small response.

Playing with confidence is a big thing in Hockey, wondering if you teammates have your back or not sure is not going to lead to playing with it.

Great point! The overwhelming reason not to respond seems to be fear of taking an extra 2min penalty. Most players will tell you that they will gladly kill off those penalties to know that someone has their back!

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Great point! The overwhelming reason no to respond seem to be fear of taking an extra 2min penalty. Most players will tell you that they will gladly kill off those penalties to know that someone has their back!

In the latest example you've exploited to make this stupid point, it was in the 3rd period with a 2 goal lead, against a team with the most lethal powerplay in the league. It was smart not to be idiots and retaliate, but intelligence went out the window in this thread a long time ago.

The mere notion that jumping a player puts the rest of the league on notice and effects their play is incredibly ignorant.

 

[Off Sides]

Great point! The overwhelming reason not to respond seems to be fear of taking an extra 2min penalty. Most players will tell you that they will gladly kill off those penalties to know that someone has their back!

That is what the players say isn't it.

I never hear them say, well I took an elbow to the head, got a concussion but I'm sure glad my team did not take a penalty after it. It really sparked my team and we are now a closer bunch.

 

[savebyrichter94]

In the latest example you've exploited to make this stupid point, it was in the 3rd period with a 2 goal lead, against a team with the most lethal powerplay in the league. It was smart not to be idiots and retaliate, but intelligence went out the window in this thread a long time ago.

The mere notion that jumping a player puts the rest of the league on notice and effects their play is incredibly ignorant.

People here seriously need to work on their reading comprehension! I have said numerous times that in that one particular instance it was better not jump on him right away but that we could a) respond physically by hitting them back clean and hard with body checks or b) wait till the game was over and then go after Brouwer

The mere notion that constantly doing nothing throughout the entire history of this franchise doesn't send a message and feed a stereotype is what's truly ignorant!

It's also incredibly unintelligent to ignore that my point was about sending a message to our own guys as well! We may have to pick our spots sometimes given the game situation but you don't just continue to ignore it almost every single time it happens over the course of almost 90 years. If you don't think that gives your team a reputation that others will seek to exploit along with setting a dangerous precedent that it's ok then you're just a fool and you should probably stop contributing to a thread you know nothing about!

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

People here seriously need to work on their reading comprehension! I have said numerous times that in that one particular instance it was better not jump on him right away but that we could a) respond physically by hitting them back clean and hard with body checks or b) what till the game was over and the go after Brouwer

The mere notion that constantly doing nothing throughout the entire history of this franchise doesn't send a message and feed a stereotype is what's truly ignorant!

It's also incredibly unintelligent to ignore that my point was about sending a message to our own guys as well! We may have to pick our spots sometimes given the game situation but you don't just continue to ignore it almost every single time it happens over the course of almost 90 years. If you don't think that gives your team a reputation that others will seek to exploit along with setting a dangerous precedent that it's ok then you're just a fool and you should probably stop contributing to a thread you know nothing about!

The team was hard on the forecheck and taking the body all night vs. Washington. You're complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

[Crease]

I'd rather be more like the Bruins than more like the Canucks. Is it a coach thing, a player thing, or a bit of both?

 

[Off Sides]

People here seriously need to work on their reading comprehension! I have said numerous times that in that one particular instance it was better not jump on him right away but that we could a) respond physically by hitting them back clean and hard with body checks or b) wait till the game was over and then go after Brouwer

The mere notion that constantly doing nothing throughout the entire history of this franchise doesn't send a message and feed a stereotype is what's truly ignorant!

It's also incredibly unintelligent to ignore that my point was about sending a message to our own guys as well! We may have to pick our spots sometimes given the game situation but you don't just continue to ignore it almost every single time it happens over the course of almost 90 years. If you don't think that gives your team a reputation that others will seek to exploit along with setting a dangerous precedent that it's ok then you're just a fool and you should probably stop contributing to a thread you know nothing about!

I think they should have responded immediately to the Stepan hit,

If they are going to play scared of Washington's power play every time they see them they might as well give them license to make marginal dirty plays every time they are losing.


Yes you want the team to play with some strategy in mind, but you don't want them playing with any strategy that includes them being scared of another teams traits to the point they will not respond.

Don't take silly hooking and love tap penalties, if you see a teammate get crushed on a borderline dirty hit you go after the other team.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd rather be more like the Bruins than more like the Canucks. Is it a coach thing, a player thing, or a bit of both?

I agree. I would rather see this team impose their will physically but that is because that is the type of hockey I like.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think they should have responded immediately to the Stepan hit,

If they are going to play scared of Washington's power play every time they see them they might as well give them license to make marginal dirty plays every time they are losing.


Yes you want the team to play with some strategy in mind, but you don't want them playing with any strategy that includes them being scared of another teams traits.

You had 4 players on the ice capable of responding. Much to your chagrin, Im sure, the NHL did away with players being able to leave the bench.

Being the hit occurred behind the play, and the Rangers were retrieving the puck, I think its safe to assume nobody on the ice saw what happened. It makes this weak argument of yours even weaker.