Team toughness

[Ail]

Whether he's a bust or not is irrelevant to me. The larger issue is why does this team have to keep filling roles on the bottom for via free agency. The inability to develop players to fill these roles is unbelievable.

I don't think it's an inability, it appears to me more of an unwillingness. I think they've had several players of late who could have potentially filled that role somewhat effectively from Hartford, but they refused to bring up. They either disagree with my assessment of said players (likely), or just really feel a veteran is better suited in that role, for whatever reason.

 

[savebyrichter94]

Whether he's a bust or not is irrelevant to me. The larger issue is why does this team have to keep filling roles on the bottom for via free agency. The inability to develop players to fill these roles is unbelievable.

Exactly. LA has 3 in Nolan, King and Clifford. Why can't we find any players that have some size and snarl. It's always little guys with heart or big guys who are soft. Find some players who not only have the size but also have the tenacity! Players willing to fight for this team and go through a wall because they have pride in the fact that we drafted or developed them instead of journeymen mercs!

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Honest question - how many concussions is it going to take before this team does something other than act indignant? Looks like Stepan is ok - knock on wood - which is extremely fortunate.

Intentional, unintentional, and in between there is a reason why teams just don't give a **** against the Rangers. It's tough to watch.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Honest question - how many concussions is it going to take before this team does something other than act indignant? Looks like Stepan is ok - knock on wood - which is extremely fortunate.

Intentional, unintentional, and in between there is a reason why teams just don't give a **** against the Rangers. It's tough to watch.

i dont understand this.. i watch a lot of hockey and even have a hit along the boards. 75% of the time it will end up with a fight.. with the Rangers, they will skate away and yell at the ref and then end up shorthanded

 

[surf]

Come on bro they all banged their sticks on the boards in disgust!! That's the new video game NHL...Get em on the PP

Honest question - how many concussions is it going to take before this team does something other than act indignant? Looks like Stepan is ok - knock on wood - which is extremely fortunate.

Intentional, unintentional, and in between there is a reason why teams just don't give a **** against the Rangers. It's tough to watch.

 

[NYR2007]

i just posted about this. No response from Nash hit to the head and no response from Stepan head shot. (thank god he returned) but that doesn't discount the fact no one did anything.

This team is such a joke its not even funny. Watch other team and you see all ten players fight on the ice. And it goes on all game with a response on their star players etc...

This team doesn't even go over to the guy lmfao

Im sure posters on here are gonna discount this , but you don't go any where in this league if teams know they can do whatever they want to your players without a response one way or another

For me the reason why i miss that Ranger team that went to the eastern conference finals is because of just this. That was the first Ranger team where players stuck up for one another .

 

[surf]

McIlrath goes a long way to solve this problem...Then we need a mean SOB on the bottom 6...Please get rid of Pouliot and Pyatt...If Dylan was on the ice when Steps got smeared he would have been all over him in 3 seconds

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

Last year, the Blackhawks (who were the best team) had the 26th most fighting majors. They were also tied for LAST in total penalty minutes (with us). They had 0 game misconducts. I think it's safe to assume that they played a clean game and did not retaliate. They were LAST in the league in hits.

That was a "soft" team. I don't care that much about how much this team hits, even though I love that part of this game. What I care about is how much this team WINS.

 

[OverTheCap]

The Rangers need to back each other up after a hit to the head, otherwise this is something other teams will continue to exploit. We got lucky with Stepan tonight, not so much with Nash last week.

After watching the replay, it seems like the other skaters got a decent look at the collision but they kept on skating. I'm hoping they didn't react because they thought the hit was accidental. You don't have to be an enforcer to stand up for a teammate.

 

[NYR2007]

Last year, the Blackhawks (who were the best team) had the 26th most fighting majors. They were also tied for LAST in total penalty minutes (with us). They had 0 game misconducts. I think it's safe to assume that they played a clean game and did not retaliate. They were LAST in the league in hits.

That was a "soft" team. I don't care that much about how much this team hits, even though I love that part of this game. What I care about is how much this team WINS.

I was waiting for the first guy to come in and make some crazy argument with ridiculous stats to validate their argument.

Okay so what you mean to tell me is your fine with every 2-3 games one of our star players takes a head shot as long as we win that game ?!? and no one does anything at all?

Because Chicago didn't get any game misconducts last season?

Did i summarize your argument correctly?

EDIT; And this is coming from a guy who has Stepan as his avatar...... So if Stepan would have been knocked cold on that play and missed half the season you will still be saying the same thing? don't mean to sound sarcastic , really am curious

 

[trilobyte]

Last year, the Blackhawks (who were the best team) had the 26th most fighting majors. They were also tied for LAST in total penalty minutes (with us). They had 0 game misconducts. I think it's safe to assume that they played a clean game and did not retaliate. They were LAST in the league in hits.

That was a "soft" team. I don't care that much about how much this team hits, even though I love that part of this game. What I care about is how much this team WINS.

Blackhawks are a great team, but somebody should have wiped the ice with Raffi Torres when he took Marian Hossa out of the game for an extended period with that intentional hit to the the head in April, 2012.

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

The fact that you think teams are going to continually take runs at our players is ridiculous. Responding to cheap shots doesn't undo the other teams action. What it does is invite the other team to continue to take shots in a battle of making things even. Having a goon doesn't prevent other teams from making questionable hits. I've seen no proof that 'soft' teams are more likely to be targeted. Players and teams don't want to risk suspension, penalties, or getting a reputation that invites retaliation.

It's literal fact that you don't need to be tough to win games. You don't need to fight, take revenge. You need to score goals, play defense, and dictate the pace of the game. Those stats were not ridiculous. Do you disagree that Chicago wasn't one of the 'softest' teams in the league? Do you disagree that they were the best team in the league last year?

What would you have liked tonight? For us to respond and put the best PP in the league on the ice because someone took a dumb penalty? We won the game and shut the Caps out on their home ice. The arena was silent and fans left in droves before the game ended. That's better revenge than having someone take retaliation and putting our lead at risk. We won the game.

 

[Miller Time NYR]

31%, that's the chance the capitals score on a powerplay after someone like Boyle or Dorsett goes out and jumps brouwer next shift. AV was on the bench yelling at the team to settle down after the hit, accidental or not I'd much rather take the 0% chance they score on a powerplay in a game like tonight's, if we were down by a few or our chances looked grim im sure AV would have kept his mouth shut and let the players do what they wanted.

 

[egelband]

I'll take the short-term pain of a few power play goals against, if it means that the rangers develop a reputation that they stick-up for their teammates. At the moment, it's a free-for-all. Intentional or not, opponents don't feel the need to be rresponsible when facing the rangers. Let alone the 'dirty' stuff. Its very disappointing to me.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I'll take the short-term pain of a few power play goals against, if it means that the rangers develop a reputation that they stick-up for their teammates. At the moment, it's a free-for-all. Intentional or not, opponents don't feel the need to be rresponsible when facing the rangers. Let alone the 'dirty' stuff. Its very disappointing to me.

Exactly. I would much rather risk the short term pain of a PK for the chance to take a step to change the culture. Every team scouting the Rangers are gonna watch this tape and conciously or subconciously draw the same conclusion.

 

[Blue Blooded]

31%, that's the chance the capitals score on a powerplay after someone like Boyle or Dorsett goes out and jumps brouwer next shift. AV was on the bench yelling at the team to settle down after the hit, accidental or not I'd much rather take the 0% chance they score on a powerplay in a game like tonight's, if we were down by a few or our chances looked grim im sure AV would have kept his mouth shut and let the players do what they wanted.

This, 1000 times this.

Sure there are cases when this strategy doesn't work, but I can guarantee that in a larger sample this strategy works out a lot better than the other one.

Failing to be tough isn't why the Canucks lost the 2011 Cup, failure to execute on the PP was. That PP was deadly throughout the season but fell off the map in the finals. Because the PP was so bad, Boston knew they could do whatever they wanted without repercussions.

 

[beef 4 lunch]

is it too much to ask for someone, maybe one or two or even three guys, to have the mentality and the ABILITY to line up someone on the opposing team a deliver a nasty hit on one of the opponents better players? Not just in retaliation, but because that is the way they play the game. We dont have guys that can do this. Pyatt, Pooliot, Boyle, Zucc, the list goes on. We are an easy team to play against in that respect. when the opponent thinks twice about going into a corner, or taking a pass up the middle, or running someone, then we have an advantage.

No snarl......

to me, this is an issue. and it is an area that needs to be improved upon.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

31%, that's the chance the capitals score on a powerplay after someone like Boyle or Dorsett goes out and jumps brouwer next shift. AV was on the bench yelling at the team to settle down after the hit, accidental or not I'd much rather take the 0% chance they score on a powerplay in a game like tonight's, if we were down by a few or our chances looked grim im sure AV would have kept his mouth shut and let the players do what they wanted.

what is the excuse that they didnt stick up for Nash when the game was already 7-2 8-2... no one did anything except Boyle and he didnt even do that much... this team has no emotion and heart.. its pretty sad...

 

[Miller Time NYR]

what is the excuse that they didnt stick up for Nash when the game was already 7-2 8-2... no one did anything except Boyle and he didnt even do that much... this team has no emotion and heart.. its pretty sad...

Boyle went after Stuart what else was there to be done? Yea sure Boyle didn't do much but that's because Stuart wanted nothing to do with a fight, while Boyles not exactly an enforcer or punishing by any mean he did react to what happened to Nash, While Boyles not the ideal guy to go out and deal with that he's all we've got

Also in today's game the only way to keep players honest and avoid them taking liberties on our players is having a good powerplay, example A was last night with the caps, AV went up and down the bench preaching no retaliation because he knew there was a good chance the caps would score if given a powerplay for a stupid retaliatory hit, there was also an even better chance they get at least a goal on what would have probably been a 4 minute powerplay which is what probably would have come from any retaliation.

 

[savebyrichter94]

You don't go after the guy right away, you wait till the game is out of reach to go after him. You also have the option of going after him the next time you play them. Constantly turning the other cheek and not stepping up when challenged, in my opinion, sends the wrong message. There's also nothing wrong with responding physically by laying down big hits on some of their top guys. For all the facts tossed around here the one being ignored is that standing up for teammates and responding physically brings a team together and raises the overall battle level.

Chicago was and is a very skilled team but they have a few guys that are bigger and nastier than anyone we have. You don't have to be a goon to drop the gloves or lay the body. Who is our Seabrook on the back end or our Bickell up front? Would be nice to have a few guys who can match up size wise and who have an edge to their game.

 

[Callagraves]

It was smart not to retaliate. The team needed a win, and was up 2-0. Go ahead, give Washington a powerplay. Puts them back in the game real quick

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

You don't go after the guy right away, you wait till the game is out of reach to go after him. You also have the option of going after him the next time you play them. Constantly turning the other cheek and not stepping up when challenged, in my opinion, sends the wrong message. There's also nothing wrong with responding physically by laying down big hits on some of their top guys. For the facts tossed around here the one being ignored is that standing up for teammates and responding physically brings a team together and raises the overall battle level.

Chicago was and is a very skilled team but they have a few guys that are bigger and nastier than anyone we have. You don't have to be a goon to drop the gloves or lay the body. Who is our Seabrook on the back end or our Bickell up front? Would be nice to have a few guys who can match up size wise and who have an edge to their game.

i dont know why, but the Rangers seem to get big guys Pyatt, Pouliot, Malik Poti in the past that does not use their size at all or does not know how to, but when ever the Rangers get a gritty player hs is either under 6' or on the downside of his career.. why cant the Rangers get a player like Hartnell, Malone (when he was on the Penguins) Jamie Benn (5th round pick by Stars) Kyle Clifford, Matt Martin.. is it really hard for the Rangers to find these guys? it seems like every team has a player like this...

 

[savebyrichter94]

i dont know why, but the Rangers seem to get big guys Pyatt, Pouliot, Malik Poti in the past that does not use their size at all or does not know how to, but when ever the Rangers get a gritty player hs is either under 6' or on the downside of his career.. why cant the Rangers get a player like Hartnell, Malone (when he was on the Penguins) Jamie Benn (5th round pick by Stars) Kyle Clifford, Matt Martin.. is it really hard for the Rangers to find these guys? it seems like every team has a player like this...

It's definitely a good question to ask!

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

It's definitely a good question to ask!

or maybe Glen Sather thinks they will use their size because they are 6'4 +

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

People keep bringing up Chicago. Ice a team with that skill level in the top 6 and you can afford to neglect toughness a bit. They still iced plenty of gritty players who hit and don't back down like Bickel, Shaw, Bolland, even Toews. May not have dropped the gloves a lot or been "intimidating" but they as a group were not afraid to mix it up.

Ditto Pittsburgh. When the Rangers can build their top 6 around the two best centers in the world - sure, load up on whoever on the wings. I don't care. The Pens did still ice a roster that was night and day to the Rangers in terms of grit. Orpik, Morrow, Glass, Engelland, Murray.

How about 2 of the other teams in the conference finals? LA and Boston. They had grit and toughness up and down the lineup. Two of the toughest teams in the league as far as I'm concerned. Don't need to list all the players out.

I know people are gonna pick apart my argument and say well Regehr sucks! Shaw is a fake tough guy! Glass is an AHLer! But that is missing the point. It is about a team concept of balancing skill with grit, about mixing it up to jump start your team, about responding when challenged instead of waiting for Shanny to do it for you. Because when the whistles go away in the postseason teams need to find a way to do their own lifting.

Lastly I would take Matt Martin on the team every day of the week. Someone get Boomer to put in the good word.