WC: Team Switzerland 2022

[Eye of Ra]

Härenstam (swedish tv commentator) was impressed by Miranda.

 

[jonas2244]

They will definitely keep roster spots open, Fischer's goal is to win the gold medal and he always keeps spots open for NHL players even if they join only for the quarterfinals

I'd say that depends on injury situation. But yeah, if possible he'll do so.

 

[jaro]

if josi joins, he wil be the biggest star of this tournament and it will show. Hope Kurashev will be ok and joins also

 

[jonas2244]

Fischer is heavily rotating.
Lineup for today:

Aeschlimann
Frick - Fora
Suter - Corvi - Künzle

Siegenthaler - Egli
Scherwey - Ambühl - Thürkauf

Marti - Glauser
Rod - Bertschy - Riat

Loeffel
Miranda - Heim - Eggenberger

 

[jonas2244]

By the way, good interview with Marcel Jenni about the problems of Swiss Junior Hockey (and probably Senior hockey in a few years):

Only in German, but google-translate will help.

U18-WM: Jenni blickt zurück und sieht viele Hebel - hockeyfans.ch

www.hockeyfans.ch

 

[Kuracmugger]

By the way, good interview with Marcel Jenni about the problems of Swiss Junior Hockey (and probably Senior hockey in a few years):

Only in German, but google-translate will help.

U18-WM: Jenni blickt zurück und sieht viele Hebel - hockeyfans.ch

www.hockeyfans.ch

Interesting interview, at this point i don‘t know what’s needed for the clubs to wake up. But i have to admit i see some steps in the right direction zug has many good young players and gave them the chances. And Bern has signed 2 players of birth year 02 and joshua fahrni who already played this season. I think players like fahrni and knak show it’s not that we don‘t have enough talent, if they get the chance they can deliver. An important point jenni talked about was the level of the u20 elit the clubs should look that they can hold onto their prospects and prevent them from leaving for canada. For example players like canonica zanetti could definitely play NL imo but instead lugano has players like tim traber or evan tschumi in their bottom 6 instead of young players. The worst club regarding youth development has to be lausanne this season they have (including license swiss players) 14 foreign players.

 

[stv11]

By the way, good interview with Marcel Jenni about the problems of Swiss Junior Hockey (and probably Senior hockey in a few years):

Only in German, but google-translate will help.

U18-WM: Jenni blickt zurück und sieht viele Hebel - hockeyfans.ch

www.hockeyfans.ch

There are some interesting bits. I've checked the U18/U19/U20/U21 stats on eliteprospects a few times and it really struck me how few young players played in the NHL compared to Liiga, SHL or Extraliga, and I was wondering if it was because clubs were reluctant to give youth players a chance or if there was something specific about the Swiss development system that make players reach their potential later.

The second paragraph about the style of play requiring a lot of intensity from the players and leading to late game fatigue is interesting too. I wonder to what extent it can also explain why the senior national team is often under heavy pressure in the third period.

 

[Elias40]

Interesting interview, at this point i don‘t know what’s needed for the clubs to wake up. But i have to admit i see some steps in the right direction zug has many good young players and gave them the chances. And Bern has signed 2 players of birth year 02 and joshua fahrni who already played this season. I think players like fahrni and knak show it’s not that we don‘t have enough talent, if they get the chance they can deliver. An important point jenni talked about was the level of the u20 elit the clubs should look that they can hold onto their prospects and prevent them from leaving for canada. For example players like canonica zanetti could definitely play NL imo but instead lugano has players like tim traber or evan tschumi in their bottom 6 instead of young players. The worst club regarding youth development has to be lausanne this season they have (including license swiss players) 14 foreign players.

If you have a talent like Dahlin and he doesn't go to the NA, on the contrary, he decides to play in Switzerland, gets big minutes in the game, something on the power play and let him play at the end of the match? Is there any confidence in the young player from the coach or teammates? Or is it like everywhere, the coach feels pressure on the results and so it is easier for him to play a little older foreigners? This problem is not only in Switzerland, the same thing bothers the Czechs. Can it also be said that the best coaches work for young people in Switzerland and are also well evaluated and help with development? Because having the best coaches in the youth is simply the absolute basis for a senior team to have good players in the future.

 

[Kuracmugger]

There are some interesting bits. I've checked the U18/U19/U20/U21 stats on eliteprospects a few times and it really struck me how few young players played in the NHL compared to Liiga, SHL or Extraliga, and I was wondering if it was because clubs were reluctant to give youth players a chance or if there was something specific about the Swiss development system that make players reach their potential later.

The second paragraph about the style of play requiring a lot of intensity from the players and leading to late game fatigue is interesting too. I wonder to what extent it can also explain why the senior national team is often under heavy pressure in the third period.

If you have a talent like Dahlin and he doesn't go to the NA, on the contrary, he decides to play in Switzerland, gets big minutes in the game, something on the power play and let him play at the end of the match? Is there any confidence in the young player from the coach or teammates? Or is it like everywhere, the coach feels pressure on the results and so it is easier for him to play a little older foreigners? This problem is not only in Switzerland, the same thing bothers the Czechs. Can it also be said that the best coaches work for young people in Switzerland and are also well evaluated and help with development? Because having the best coaches in the youth is simply the absolute basis for a senior team to have good players in the future.

The part with pressure on the coach is very true what i often see is that swiss clubs, at the beginning of the season try to play young players or other players with minor roles in bigger roles and less foreigners. But if the team struggles and doesn’t have much success they sign big name foreign player mostly ex NHL players to turn the ship around. And those players then take over big roles in the team. I feel like the teams just expect the young players to be ready right away and don’t give them room to make mistakes and learn. Regarding youth development i think we have made some steps bug i‘m not an expert i can only talk about the zsc lions youth organization since i played in every level until i changed team. But i can say that the coaches are copying many methods from sweden or na for example power skating or regular drills to improve the skills of the players.

 

[stv11]

Interesting interview, at this point i don‘t know what’s needed for the clubs to wake up. But i have to admit i see some steps in the right direction zug has many good young players and gave them the chances. And Bern has signed 2 players of birth year 02 and joshua fahrni who already played this season. I think players like fahrni and knak show it’s not that we don‘t have enough talent, if they get the chance they can deliver. An important point jenni talked about was the level of the u20 elit the clubs should look that they can hold onto their prospects and prevent them from leaving for canada. For example players like canonica zanetti could definitely play NL imo but instead lugano has players like tim traber or evan tschumi in their bottom 6 instead of young players. The worst club regarding youth development has to be lausanne this season they have (including license swiss players) 14 foreign players.

Lausanne is just the Manchester United of hockey, they sign players just because they are available without any consideration for team building and without any vision for what they want their team to look like. They are a good example of terrible roster management rather than bad youth development. Lugano made some mistakes with their roster too, letting underperforming players go without replacing them and ending up with no depth which resulted in a terrible season once injuries started to pile up. That should have lead to some of their youth getting some ice time (even without Canonica and Zanetti they have some talented guys like Werder, Villa or Uguazzi), but these guys ended up being victims of their GM's biggest mistake, hiring a coach with a completely outdated vision of hockey.

Regarding the players you mention, that underlines a big part of the problem. Fahrni and Knak are two of the only 3 U20 players (along with Allenspach) who played the entire season, so most guys in that ages category are not getting a chance. But I honestly can't tell if it's because none of them is good enough or because coaches prefer to cut the bench and play with 3 lines when depth is missing (see my Lugano example above).

If you have a talent like Dahlin and he doesn't go to the NA, on the contrary, he decides to play in Switzerland, gets big minutes in the game, something on the power play and let him play at the end of the match? Is there any confidence in the young player from the coach or teammates? Or is it like everywhere, the coach feels pressure on the results and so it is easier for him to play a little older foreigners? This problem is not only in Switzerland, the same thing bothers the Czechs. Can it also be said that the best coaches work for young people in Switzerland and are also well evaluated and help with development? Because having the best coaches in the youth is simply the absolute basis for a senior team to have good players in the future.

Josi played on Bern's PP when he was 18 despite them being one of the deepest team at the time, so I wouldn't say that giving playing time to top caliber prospects is an issue (although I admit that my example is quite old, but we don't have many prospects of that caliber either). Depth isn't really a big issue either as it's better than ever, but for some reason Swiss players seem to hit their prime pretty late. You have guys like Gaëtan Haas who played for the U20 national team, then was on no one's radar until he made a good world championship training camp at 23, was a healthy scratch at the WC at 24 and the number one center of the national team at 25. You also have guys like Christoph Bertschy who was a regular player for Bern at 17, was drafted, developed decently until he was 21 but wasn't good enough for the WC, then spent 3 seasons in the AHL and played a few NHL games, came back to Switzerland at 25 when he finally made the national team.

Those are pretty different career trajectories but the common aspect is that those players weren't WC caliber until their mid-20's, so I really wonder if there is something specific to our development system that could explain why this is the case.

I guess my whole point is that I understand Jenni's point of view, but is it really because players don't get a chance, or because they are not ready?

Regarding the quality of coaches, it is my understanding that the best coach tend to work in senior hockey, but I haven't been involved in coaching in more than a decade so my opinion may be outdated.

 

[Kuracmugger]

There are some interesting bits. I've checked the U18/U19/U20/U21 stats on eliteprospects a few times and it really struck me how few young players played in the NHL compared to Liiga, SHL or Extraliga, and I was wondering if it was because clubs were reluctant to give youth players a chance or if there was something specific about the Swiss development system that make players reach their potential later.

The second paragraph about the style of play requiring a lot of intensity from the players and leading to late game fatigue is interesting too. I wonder to what extent it can also explain why the senior national team is often under heavy pressure in the third period.

If you have a talent like Dahlin and he doesn't go to the NA, on the contrary, he decides to play in Switzerland, gets big minutes in the game, something on the power play and let him play at the end of the match? Is there any confidence in the young player from the coach or teammates? Or is it like everywhere, the coach feels pressure on the results and so it is easier for him to play a little older foreigners? This problem is not only in Switzerland, the same thing bothers the Czechs. Can it also be said that the best coaches work for young people in Switzerland and are also well evaluated and help with development? Because having the best coaches in the youth is simply the absolute basis for a senior team to have good players in the future.

The part with pressure on the coach is very true what i often see is that swiss clubs, at the beginning of the season try to play young players or other players with minor roles in bigger roles and less foreigners. But if the team struggles and doesn’t have much success they sign big name foreign player mostly ex NHL players to turn the ship around. And those players then take over big roles in the team. I feel like the teams just expect the young players to be ready right away and don’t give them room to make mistakes and learn. Regarding youth development i think we have made some steps bug i‘m not an expert i can only talk about the zsc lions youth organization since i played in every level until i changed team. But i can say that the coaches are copying many methods from sweden or na for example power skating or regular drills to improve the skills of the players.

Lausanne is just the Manchester United of hockey, they sign players just because they are available without any consideration for team building and without any vision for what they want their team to look like. They are a good example of terrible roster management rather than bad youth development. Lugano made some mistake with their roster too, letting underperforming players go without replacing them and ending up with no depth which resulted in a terrible season once injuries started to pile up. That should have lead to some of their youth getting some ice time (even without Canonica and Zanetti they have some talented guys like Werder, Villa or Uguazzi), but these guys ended up being victims of their GM's biggest mistake, hiring a coach with a completely outdated vision of hockey.

Regarding the players you mention, that underlines a big part of the problem. Fahrni and Knak are two of the only 3 U20 players (along with Allenspach) who played the entire season, so those guys are not getting a chance. But I honestly can't tell if it's because none of them is good enough or because coaches prefer to cut the bench and play with 3 lines when depth is missing (see my Lugano example above).


Josi played on Bern's PP when he was 18 despite them being one of the deepest team at the time, so I wouldn't say that giving playing time to top caliber prospects is an issue (although I admit my example is quite old, but we don't have many prospects of that caliber either). Depth isn't really a big issue either as it's better than ever, but for some reason Swiss players seem to hit their prime pretty late. You have guys like Gaëtan Haas who played for the U20 national team, then was on no one's radar until he made a good world championship training camp at 23, was a healthy scratch at 24 and the number one center at 25. You also have guys like Christoph Bertschy who was a regular player for Bern at 17, was drafted, developed decently until he was 21 but wasn't good enough for the WC, then spent 3 seasons in the AHL and played a few NHL games, came back to Switzerland at 25 when he finally made the national team.

Those are pretty different career trajectories but the common aspect is that those players weren't WC caliber players until their mid-20's, so I really wonder if there is something specific to our development system that could explain why this is the case.

I guess my whole point is that I understand Jenni's point of view, but is it really because players don't get a chance, or because they are not ready?

Regarding the quality of coaches, it is my understanding that the best coach tend to work in senior hockey, but I haven't been involved in coaching in more than a decade so my opinion may be outdated.

yes lausanne‘s roster management is pretty poor. I am a zsc fan and we‘ve had the reputation as the best club for young players and also many players who played as 17 year olds for example malgin or siegenthaler. But since then we have less and less young players in our squad. We just have to much money for the roster the lions just by 5 top foreigners and many swiss stars and waste their young gungs talent in their swiss league team. Noah meier is too good for the sl and he doesn’t get the chance in the NL since 2 years. Also players like truog and henry should’ve gotten some games and they could have made efforts to hold on some young players who left for na like reichle segafredo rohrer. If they did that they wouldn’t have to play u17 top players in their u20 elit squad because of a lack of players. I hear from a lot of players i know who play u20 elit/swiss league that once you play for gck your stuck there forever unless you join another club like rapperswil(yannik brüschweiler did that and got minutes and played well as far as i know). I also think it’s grönborgs fault to some extent because he wants to win and doesn’t have patience. There are also questionable transfers like johan morant or kivistö or guebey who steal a roster spot from noah meier But don‘t contribute much more than a medicore swiss player. I wouldn’t be that upset aboug all this if the management wouldn’t say all the time that they are „so concerend about the young players and do everthing for their young guns“.

 

[Elias40]

Lausanne is just the Manchester United of hockey, they sign players just because they are available without any consideration for team building and without any vision for what they want their team to look like. They are a good example of terrible roster management rather than bad youth development. Lugano made some mistakes with their roster too, letting underperforming players go without replacing them and ending up with no depth which resulted in a terrible season once injuries started to pile up. That should have lead to some of their youth getting some ice time (even without Canonica and Zanetti they have some talented guys like Werder, Villa or Uguazzi), but these guys ended up being victims of their GM's biggest mistake, hiring a coach with a completely outdated vision of hockey.

Regarding the players you mention, that underlines a big part of the problem. Fahrni and Knak are two of the only 3 U20 players (along with Allenspach) who played the entire season, so most guys in that ages category are not getting a chance. But I honestly can't tell if it's because none of them is good enough or because coaches prefer to cut the bench and play with 3 lines when depth is missing (see my Lugano example above).


Josi played on Bern's PP when he was 18 despite them being one of the deepest team at the time, so I wouldn't say that giving playing time to top caliber prospects is an issue (although I admit that my example is quite old, but we don't have many prospects of that caliber either). Depth isn't really a big issue either as it's better than ever, but for some reason Swiss players seem to hit their prime pretty late. You have guys like Gaëtan Haas who played for the U20 national team, then was on no one's radar until he made a good world championship training camp at 23, was a healthy scratch at the WC at 24 and the number one center of the national team at 25. You also have guys like Christoph Bertschy who was a regular player for Bern at 17, was drafted, developed decently until he was 21 but wasn't good enough for the WC, then spent 3 seasons in the AHL and played a few NHL games, came back to Switzerland at 25 when he finally made the national team.

Those are pretty different career trajectories but the common aspect is that those players weren't WC caliber until their mid-20's, so I really wonder if there is something specific to our development system that could explain why this is the case.

I guess my whole point is that I understand Jenni's point of view, but is it really because players don't get a chance, or because they are not ready?

Regarding the quality of coaches, it is my understanding that the best coach tend to work in senior hockey, but I haven't been involved in coaching in more than a decade so my opinion may be outdated.

So the connection, in my opinion, is that the U18 and U20 leagues do not ensure a sufficient number of quality matches, then those players do not go to every match when they know that they only need to play 70% and win. Switzerland will never eliminate this problem because it does not have enough players of its own and playing the junior league with just eight teams, for example, is not a good option for anyone. The opposite extreme is if the best Swiss junior players go to Finland or Sweden, but this will only help a small number of players, not most.

When was the last time the Swiss Federation made structural changes to make it competitive in youth hockey? I mean what Sweden and Boustedt did around 2000. NL is a good league, teams have a lot of money and can afford to pay for quality from abroad, but it's at the expense of their own players.

It is normal for players to need some time to reach the level of playing senior hockey. Some take two or three years, some five years. However, this does not weaken the senior NT, there these players engage relatively well. Are the best junior players ever ready to go to Scandinavia? Thousands of kilometers from home ..

 

[Kuracmugger]

There are some interesting bits. I've checked the U18/U19/U20/U21 stats on eliteprospects a few times and it really struck me how few young players played in the NHL compared to Liiga, SHL or Extraliga, and I was wondering if it was because clubs were reluctant to give youth players a chance or if there was something specific about the Swiss development system that make players reach their potential later.

The second paragraph about the style of play requiring a lot of intensity from the players and leading to late game fatigue is interesting too. I wonder to what extent it can also explain why the senior national team is often under heavy pressure in the third period.

If you have a talent like Dahlin and he doesn't go to the NA, on the contrary, he decides to play in Switzerland, gets big minutes in the game, something on the power play and let him play at the end of the match? Is there any confidence in the young player from the coach or teammates? Or is it like everywhere, the coach feels pressure on the results and so it is easier for him to play a little older foreigners? This problem is not only in Switzerland, the same thing bothers the Czechs. Can it also be said that the best coaches work for young people in Switzerland and are also well evaluated and help with development? Because having the best coaches in the youth is simply the absolute basis for a senior team to have good players in the future.

The part with pressure on the coach is very true what i often see is that swiss clubs, at the beginning of the season try to play young players or other players with minor roles in bigger roles and less foreigners. But if the team struggles and doesn’t have much success they sign big name foreign player mostly ex NHL players to turn the ship around. And those players then take over big roles in the team. I feel like the teams just expect the young players to be ready right away and don’t give them room to make mistakes and learn. Regarding youth development i think we have made some steps bug i‘m not an expert i can only talk about the zsc lions youth organization since i played in every level until i changed team. But i can say that the coaches are copying many methods from sweden or na for example power skating or regular drills to improve the skills of the players.

Lausanne is just the Manchester United of hockey, they sign players just because they are available without any consideration for team building and without any vision for what they want their team to look like. They are a good example of terrible roster management rather than bad youth development. Lugano made some mistake with their roster too, letting underperforming players go without replacing them and ending up with no depth which resulted in a terrible season once injuries started to pile up. That should have lead to some of their youth getting some ice time (even without Canonica and Zanetti they have some talented guys like Werder, Villa or Uguazzi), but these guys ended up being victims of their GM's biggest mistake, hiring a coach with a completely outdated vision of hockey.

Regarding the players you mention, that underlines a big part of the problem. Fahrni and Knak are two of the only 3 U20 players (along with Allenspach) who played the entire season, so those guys are not getting a chance. But I honestly can't tell if it's because none of them is good enough or because coaches prefer to cut the bench and play with 3 lines when depth is missing (see my Lugano example above).


Josi played on Bern's PP when he was 18 despite them being one of the deepest team at the time, so I wouldn't say that giving playing time to top caliber prospects is an issue (although I admit my example is quite old, but we don't have many prospects of that caliber either). Depth isn't really a big issue either as it's better than ever, but for some reason Swiss players seem to hit their prime pretty late. You have guys like Gaëtan Haas who played for the U20 national team, then was on no one's radar until he made a good world championship training camp at 23, was a healthy scratch at 24 and the number one center at 25. You also have guys like Christoph Bertschy who was a regular player for Bern at 17, was drafted, developed decently until he was 21 but wasn't good enough for the WC, then spent 3 seasons in the AHL and played a few NHL games, came back to Switzerland at 25 when he finally made the national team.

Those are pretty different career trajectories but the common aspect is that those players weren't WC caliber players until their mid-20's, so I really wonder if there is something specific to our development system that could explain why this is the case.

I guess my whole point is that I understand Jenni's point of view, but is it really because players don't get a chance, or because they are not ready?

Regarding the quality of coaches, it is my understanding that the best coach tend to work in senior hockey, but I haven't been involved in coaching in more than a decade so my opinion may be outdated.

yes lausanne‘s roster management is pretty poor. I am a zsc fan and we‘ve had the reputation as the best club for young players and also many players who played as 17 year olds for example malgin or siegenthaler. But since then we have less and less young players in our squad. We just have to much money for the roster the lions just by 5 top foreigners and many swiss stars and let their young talents

So the connection, in my opinion, is that the U18 and U20 leagues do not ensure a sufficient number of quality matches, then those players do not go to every match when they know that they only need to play 70% and win. Switzerland will never eliminate this problem because it does not have enough players of its own and playing the junior league with just eight teams, for example, is not a good option for anyone. The opposite extreme is if the best Swiss junior players go to Finland or Sweden, but this will only help a small number of players, not most.

When was the last time the Swiss Federation made structural changes to make it competitive in youth hockey? I mean what Sweden and Boustedt did around 2000. NL is a good league, teams have a lot of money and can afford to pay for quality from abroad, but it's at the expense of their own players.

It is normal for players to need some time to reach the level of playing senior hockey. Some take two or three years, some five years. However, this does not weaken the senior NT, there these players engage relatively well. Are the best junior players ever ready to go to Scandinavia? Thousands of kilometers from home ..

i don’t know about structural changes but there’s heavy discussion about setting the age bar to 21 instead of 20 or even 22 but i wouldn’t like this. At the moment we have a mix of players staying and leaving in their draft year and i feel if all stayed here it would be better because if we can reach a level similar or not much worse then the j20 nationell players could easily get drafted even if their not NL regulars. Which many of the drafted swedish players are not in their draft year mostly mix of j20 nationell and shl or allsvenskan. And to answer your question yes the players are willing to leave switzerland for hockey there are about 15 players in the chl and some in scandinavia best example lian bichsel who plays for leksands senior team.( note here biel his club in switzerland also had im planned for their senior team before he announced his club transfer). And some more players play in minor american leagues what i don’t understand because the u20 elit would fit them better.

 

[Kuracmugger]

So the connection, in my opinion, is that the U18 and U20 leagues do not ensure a sufficient number of quality matches, then those players do not go to every match when they know that they only need to play 70% and win. Switzerland will never eliminate this problem because it does not have enough players of its own and playing the junior league with just eight teams, for example, is not a good option for anyone. The opposite extreme is if the best Swiss junior players go to Finland or Sweden, but this will only help a small number of players, not most.

When was the last time the Swiss Federation made structural changes to make it competitive in youth hockey? I mean what Sweden and Boustedt did around 2000. NL is a good league, teams have a lot of money and can afford to pay for quality from abroad, but it's at the expense of their own players.

It is normal for players to need some time to reach the level of playing senior hockey. Some take two or three years, some five years. However, this does not weaken the senior NT, there these players engage relatively well. Are the best junior players ever ready to go to Scandinavia? Thousands of kilometers from home ..

Something i also thought about is that swiss players Age 20 upwards aren’t really spread over the world. You rarely see a swiss player playing in sweden or finland or (before the events in ukraine) in khl or even the DEL. The only ones who go abroad are in the NHL and some in the AHL but not many play in the AHL because the can get paid way more at home than playing in the AHL or elswhere in europe. Whereas swedish or finnish players can be found in every league and there are many coming and going from/to NA every year in the shl and also from the swiss league. Example anton lander coming back de la rose going to switzerland.

 

[stv11]

To bring this back on topic, I have mixed feeling about the Beijer games. Playing close games against that caliber of opposition is a good thing of course, but the period by period breakdown of scores is very worrying (2-0, 2-0, 1-7). And there was recurrent a lack of finish, they should have been up after the first period today.

Regarding the third game, I though Suter was a bit disappointing and I didn't see much from Corvi apart from on the PP, so I wonder if these two are a good match. Künzle wasn't good either, but Miranda showed some good things again. It will be hard to make cuts at forward.

On defense, I'm still pessimistic. Glauser and Fora don't belong at this level, and Frick had a pretty poor game (he looked terrible on the 2nd goal). Marti and Egli were fine on the other hand. Hopefully the defense will consists of the 4 NHL guys plus Loeffel, Egli, Marti and Frick.

 

[Kuracmugger]

There are some interesting bits. I've checked the U18/U19/U20/U21 stats on eliteprospects a few times and it really struck me how few young players played in the NHL compared to Liiga, SHL or Extraliga, and I was wondering if it was because clubs were reluctant to give youth players a chance or if there was something specific about the Swiss development system that make players reach their potential later.

The second paragraph about the style of play requiring a lot of intensity from the players and leading to late game fatigue is interesting too. I wonder to what extent it can also explain why the senior national team is often under heavy pressure in the third period.

If you have a talent like Dahlin and he doesn't go to the NA, on the contrary, he decides to play in Switzerland, gets big minutes in the game, something on the power play and let him play at the end of the match? Is there any confidence in the young player from the coach or teammates? Or is it like everywhere, the coach feels pressure on the results and so it is easier for him to play a little older foreigners? This problem is not only in Switzerland, the same thing bothers the Czechs. Can it also be said that the best coaches work for young people in Switzerland and are also well evaluated and help with development? Because having the best coaches in the youth is simply the absolute basis for a senior team to have good players in the future.

The part with pressure on the coach is very true what i often see is that swiss clubs, at the beginning of the season try to play young players or other players with minor roles in bigger roles and less foreigners. But if the team struggles and doesn’t have much success they sign big name foreign player mostly ex NHL players to turn the ship around. And those players then take over big roles in the team. I feel like the teams just expect the young players to be ready right away and don’t give them room to make mistakes and learn. Regarding youth development i think we have made some steps bug i‘m not an expert i can only talk about the zsc lions youth organization since i played in every level until i changed team. But i can say that the coaches are copying many methods from sweden or na for example power skating or regular drills to improve the skills of the players.

Lausanne is just the Manchester United of hockey, they sign players just because they are available without any consideration for team building and without any vision for what they want their team to look like. They are a good example of terrible roster management rather than bad youth development. Lugano made some mistake with their roster too, letting underperforming players go without replacing them and ending up with no depth which resulted in a terrible season once injuries started to pile up. That should have lead to some of their youth getting some ice time (even without Canonica and Zanetti they have some talented guys like Werder, Villa or Uguazzi), but these guys ended up being victims of their GM's biggest mistake, hiring a coach with a completely outdated vision of hockey.

Regarding the players you mention, that underlines a big part of the problem. Fahrni and Knak are two of the only 3 U20 players (along with Allenspach) who played the entire season, so those guys are not getting a chance. But I honestly can't tell if it's because none of them is good enough or because coaches prefer to cut the bench and play with 3 lines when depth is missing (see my Lugano example above).


Josi played on Bern's PP when he was 18 despite them being one of the deepest team at the time, so I wouldn't say that giving playing time to top caliber prospects is an issue (although I admit my example is quite old, but we don't have many prospects of that caliber either). Depth isn't really a big issue either as it's better than ever, but for some reason Swiss players seem to hit their prime pretty late. You have guys like Gaëtan Haas who played for the U20 national team, then was on no one's radar until he made a good world championship training camp at 23, was a healthy scratch at 24 and the number one center at 25. You also have guys like Christoph Bertschy who was a regular player for Bern at 17, was drafted, developed decently until he was 21 but wasn't good enough for the WC, then spent 3 seasons in the AHL and played a few NHL games, came back to Switzerland at 25 when he finally made the national team.

Those are pretty different career trajectories but the common aspect is that those players weren't WC caliber players until their mid-20's, so I really wonder if there is something specific to our development system that could explain why this is the case.

I guess my whole point is that I understand Jenni's point of view, but is it really because players don't get a chance, or because they are not ready?

Regarding the quality of coaches, it is my understanding that the best coach tend to work in senior hockey, but I haven't been involved in coaching in more than a decade so my opinion may be outdated.

yes lausanne‘s roster management is pretty poor. I am a zsc fan and we‘ve had the reputation as the best club for young players and also many players who played as 17 year olds for example malgin or siegenthaler. But since then we have less and less young players in our squad. We just have to much money for the roster the lions just by 5 top foreigners and many swiss stars and let their young talents

So the connection, in my opinion, is that the U18 and U20 leagues do not ensure a sufficient number of quality matches, then those players do not go to every match when they know that they only need to play 70% and win. Switzerland will never eliminate this problem because it does not have enough players of its own and playing the junior league with just eight teams, for example, is not a good option for anyone. The opposite extreme is if the best Swiss junior players go to Finland or Sweden, but this will only help a small number of players, not most.

When was the last time the Swiss Federation made structural changes to make it competitive in youth hockey? I mean what Sweden and Boustedt did around 2000. NL is a good league, teams have a lot of money and can afford to pay for quality from abroad, but it's at the expense of their own players.

It is normal for players to need some time to reach the level of playing senior hockey. Some take two or three years, some five years. However, this does not weaken the senior NT, there these players engage relatively well. Are the best junior players ever ready to go to Scandinavia? Thousands of kilometers from home ..

i don’t know about structural changes but there’s heavy discussion about setting the age bar to 21 instead of 20 or even 22 but i wouldn’t like this. At the moment we have a mix of players staying and leaving in their draft year and i feel if all stayed here it would be better because if we can reach a level similar or not much worse then the j20 nationell players could easily get drafted even if their not NL regulars. Which many of the drafted swedish players are not in their draft year mostly mix of j20 nationell and shl or allsvenskan. And to answer your question yes the players are willing to leave switzerland for hockey there are about 15 players in the chl and some in scandinavia best example lian bichsel who plays for leksands senior team.( note here biel his club in switzerland also had im planned for their senior team before he announced his club transfer). And some more players play in minor american leagues what i don’t understand because the u20 elit would fit them better.

To bring this back on topic, I have mixed feeling about the Beijer games. Playing close games against that caliber of opposition is a good thing of course, but the period by period breakdown of scores is very worrying (2-0, 2-0, 1-7). And there was recurrent a lack of finish, they should have been up after the first period today.

Regarding the third game, I though Suter was a bit disappointing and I didn't see much from Corvi apart from on the PP, so I wonder if these two are a good match. Künzle wasn't good either, but Miranda showed some good things again. It will be hard to make cuts at forward.

On defense, I'm still pessimistic. Glauser and Fora don't belong at this level, and Frick had a pretty poor game (he looked terrible on the 2nd goal). Marti and Egli were fine on the other hand. Hopefully the defense will consists of the 4 NHL guys plus Loeffel, Egli, Marti and Frick.

i agree, i noticed our guys miss a lot of high caliber chances, what’s a bit concering if we play a better opponent and don’t get many got chances we need to be able to convert those into goals. And i don’t know what fischer sees in Fora i would cut him he tackes many penalties and tends to make mistakes.

 

[Elias40]

Dahlin, OEL this is a huge upgrade game. Having two more similar strikers, this team can attack the semifinals despite Garpenlöv.

Unfortunately, euro players are quite weak, and even Hallam will do nothing about it. But I ask for a bigger role for Söderblom, in this case I am convinced that he can play in the second attack.

 

[jonas2244]

Not a bad game at all, if Switzerland scores first, and there were quite a few opportunities, it's a totally different game.

Great game by Aeschlimann again, wouldn't mind if he gets starts at the WC. Siegenthaler looked ready which is good. I agree on Fora, I thought he was the weakest spot on the D today. Egli was really solid, even Glauser was better.

Cuts on Offense are tough. The younger guys played their heart out. Heim played really well, also Miranda and Eggenberger are no pushovers. Künzle was mediocre, what probably also was the reason that Suter was as dominant as hoped. You need 2 linemates. But yeah, I wouldn't want to decide that.

What I don't like is Ambühl on the PP. I agree on taking him to the WC, but he shouldn't get PP time, there are better options there.

 

[Eye of Ra]

By the way, good interview with Marcel Jenni about the problems of Swiss Junior Hockey (and probably Senior hockey in a few years):

Only in German, but google-translate will help.

U18-WM: Jenni blickt zurück und sieht viele Hebel - hockeyfans.ch

www.hockeyfans.ch

Thats a name i have not heard in a long long time. He was great för Färjestad in swedish league for many years.

But i dont think swiss have to worry about not getting new Meiers, Fialas. Swiss was competitive in the 90s to 2014 even with hardly any NHLers. As long as NLA is going strong, swiss will have many good players in it.

 

[trick9]

Berra the likely starter?

What's their top PP unit? Seems like a pretty good team.

 

[swissdude]

Berra the likely starter?

What's their top PP unit? Seems like a pretty good team.

I think it's gonna be Genoni not Berra or more likely they alternate in the first games of the tournament. Regarding the PP I think that's a work in progress and not defined yet, with Hischier, Meier, Suter, Malgin, Riat, Ambühl, Kurashev(?), there are quiet a lot of possiilities

 

[jaro]

Is there something new in Kurashev situation ?

 

[swissexpert]

I hope Fischer doesn't use too many roster spots with his first announcement.
They are allowed to add 7 more players not included in this roster, and this is definitely a year where he can gamble a little to wait for Josi, Fiala, Kurashev. Even Niederreiter / Geisser could become options.

I mean we should beat Italy and Kazachstan with or without Glauser and Miranda....

 

[stv11]

Fischer always left spots open for NHL players so I don't think this year will be an exception.

I'm surprised there is no roster announcement yet. Are they waiting for tomorrow to see if Geisser is available? That's the only reason as I assume they will leave a spot for Josi regardless of when he can join, and they can dress 12 forwards to start the tournament while still keeping spots for Fiala and Niederreiter.

Or maybe they are waiting for an update on Kurashev?

 

[UFO]

Imho it's make or break for Fischer. He needs a good result, otherwise he should be replaced.