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WC: Team Germany

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Wow, what a surprise that Danny aus den Birken isn't in the line-up! I hope Sturm won't dress Niederberger and we get Grubauer as No.1 after a 2nd round exit of WSH.
Also surprised to see Manuel Wiederer is in just like that. We'll see how this young and internationally unexperienced offense will do, chances to reach the qf are pretty meager. :(
 
My expectations are limited, but I like the roster, because many of these players will be around for some years.
You have:
Marcel Noebels, Mathias Plachta (both 26)
Oliver Mebus, Nico Krämmer, Sebastian Uvira, Yasin Ehliz (all 25)
Markus Eisenschmid (23)
Jonas Müler, Dominik Kahun, Leon Draisaitl, Marc Michaelis, Freddie Tiffels (all 22)
Manuel Wiederer (21)

Of course they will not always all be available and you can add Philipp Grubauer and Tom Kühnhackl (both 26) as well as Tobias Rieder, Brooks Macek (both 25), Leo Pföderl (24) and other up ad comers like Tim Bender (23), Nico Sturm (almost 23), Andreas Eder, Fabio Wagner (both 22) Kai Wissmann and Stefan Loibl (both 21) to the list.
Obviously there are some even more talented younger players out there like Bokk, but I just limited it to those who have already played for the national team. I have probably forgotten a couple as well.

The only thing that is worrying is the lack of real goal scorers in the mix. It's basically just Pföderl and Macek. Maybe Loibl and/or Wiederer can develop into that, but for the near future goal scoring could be a major issue if those two (Pföderl and Macek) are not available. Like this year.
 
Maverick41 said:
My expectations are limited, but I like the roster, because many of these players will be around for some years.
You have:
Marcel Noebels, Mathias Plachta (both 26)
Oliver Mebus, Nico Krämmer, Sebastian Uvira, Yasin Ehliz (all 25)
Markus Eisenschmid (23)
Jonas Müler, Dominik Kahun, Leon Draisaitl, Marc Michaelis, Freddie Tiffels (all 22)
Manuel Wiederer (21)

Of course they will not always all be available and you can add Philipp Grubauer and Tom Kühnhackl (both 26) as well as Tobias Rieder, Brooks Macek (both 25), Leo Pföderl (24) and other up ad comers like Tim Bender (23), Nico Sturm (almost 23), Andreas Eder, Fabio Wagner (both 22) Kai Wissmann and Stefan Loibl (both 21) to the list.
Obviously there are some even more talented younger players out there like Bokk, but I just limited it to those who have already played for the national team. I have probably forgotten a couple as well.

The only thing that is worrying is the lack of real goal scorers in the mix. It's basically just Pföderl and Macek. Maybe Loibl and/or Wiederer can develop into that, but for the near future goal scoring could be a major issue if those two (Pföderl and Macek) are not available. Like this year.
Click to expand...

I'd also add lack of two-way forwards at centre and wing. This team lacks players like Marcus Kink and David Wolf who could have added physicality vs. teams that are stronger than us.

I agree with you that this is the future generation who will play lots of tournaments together. Reminds me of the fact that another guy who also belongs to this group -Maximilian Kammerer- didn't make it - a shame, he's such a good player.
 
Retroglyphs said:
I'd also add lack of two-way forwards at centre and wing. This team lacks players like Marcus Kink and David Wolf who could have added physicality vs. teams that are stronger than us.

I agree with you that this is the future generation who will play lots of tournaments together. Reminds me of the fact that another guy who also belongs to this group -Maximilian Kammerer- didn't make it - a shame, he's such a good player.
Click to expand...

Markus Eisenschmid plays a pretty good two-way-game, Krämmer and Uvira aren't too shabby either, but they have definitely have some developing to do, in that area. Overall I am a little less worride about these kinds of forwards, because they always seem to turn up, because we apparently can teach that particular skill set rather well, but even our best goal scorers in junior hockey seem to lose that ability at some point.

Thanks for reminding me about Kammerer. How could I forget him? I am also pretty high on him, and would have expected him to make the roster, especially with all the players missing. Whenever I see him, he plays with such energy and he has a pretty decent skill set on top of that. For a young player he is also fairly consistent.
 
Maverick41 said:
Markus Eisenschmid plays a pretty good two-way-game, Krämmer and Uvira aren't too shabby either, but they have definitely have some developing to do, in that area. Overall I am a little less worride about these kinds of forwards, because they always seem to turn up, because we apparently can teach that particular skill set rather well, but even our best goal scorers in junior hockey seem to lose that ability at some point.

Thanks for reminding me about Kammerer. How could I forget him? I am also pretty high on him, and would have expected him to make the roster, especially with all the players missing. Whenever I see him, he plays with such energy and he has a pretty decent skill set on top of that. For a young player he is also fairly consistent.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think as well that Eisenschmid & Uvira did a good job in that regard, but they lack experience on the international level. Waiting in keen anticipation for the first line-up. Will Sturm bring both Ehliz and Eisenschmid together with Draisaitl, and how will they cope with the opponents'?
 
Retroglyphs said:
Yes, I think as well that Eisenschmid & Uvira did a good job in that regard, but they lack experience on the international level. Waiting in keen anticipation for the first line-up. Will Sturm bring both Ehliz and Eisenschmid together with Draisaitl, and how will they cope with the opponents'?
Click to expand...

The lack of experience may be a big issue, but at least they will all get some valuable experience from this tournament. I just hope the not so hockey savy media and the more casual fans won't expect too much and be too disappointed if this team cannot live up to the silver medal in Pyoengchang.
The good thing about Draisaitl is that he can play well with most players and even with very different types of players, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a combination that works, although there is a difference between a combo that works and one that is perfect.
I'm really looking forward to see what Sturm comes up with. I'll just trust his judgment.

I think guys like Jonas Müller and especially Bernhard Ebner will also profit from Draisaitl's play and I hope Ebner gets a lot of ice time with Drai.
 
Maverick41 said:
The lack of experience may be a big issue, but at least they will all get some valuable experience from this tournament. I just hope the not so hockey savy media and the more casual fans won't expect too much and be too disappointed if this team cannot live up to the silver medal in Pyoengchang.
The good thing about Draisaitl is that he can play well with most players and even with very different types of players, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a combination that works, although there is a difference between a combo that works and one that is perfect.
I'm really looking forward to see what Sturm comes up with. I'll just trust his judgment.

I think guys like Jonas Müller and especially Bernhard Ebner will also profit from Draisaitl's play and I hope Ebner gets a lot of ice time with Drai.
Click to expand...

Again I find myself agreeing with you - Drai is quite good at coping with changing line mates, due to his hard-working attitude, and due to the fact that Edmonton isn't blessed with the best player material on the wing and he simply has to. I knew that Ehliz would fit really well with him, because he has that same attitude, and he's fast and possesses a good shot. I haven't seen enough from Eisenschmid, but he seems to be fast as well, and a good passer.
Speaking of which, yes - Draisaitl (besides our other two playmakers) is the man who can feed a slick pass from low in the zone, or from the half-boards to defenders who join the rush. You're right, we have this type of defender. Jonas Müller's go-ahead goal vs. Russia comes to mind, and Bernhard Ebner has also shown that he possesses offensive drive and a good shot. Ebner will be more than a substitute for Hördler. Other defenders, like the Seidenberg brothers, can shoot as well. So, yes - apart from lacking pure snipers on the wing, we are good at centre and at least have the tools to create some offense. ;)
 
Now, that we know the roster - this is what our line-up could look like on May 4, 2018 vs. Denmark:


Yasin Ehliz*Leon Draisaitl (C)Markus Eisenschmid
Marcel Noebels*Patrick Hager*Manuel Wiederer
Marc Michaelis (Yannic Seidenberg)Dominik Kahun* Matthias Plachta*
Marcel MüllerDaniel PiettaSebastian Uvira
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Frederik Tiffels Nico Krämmer (-)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Yannic Seidenberg (A)*Jonas Müller*
Moritz Müller*Dennis Seidenberg (A)
Bernhard EbnerKorbinian Holzer
Björn Krupp*Oliver Mebus
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Timo Pielmeier*
Niklas Treutle
Mathias Niederberger (-)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Synopsis

- 10 out of 25 silver medalists remaining on the WHC team

- obviously a stronger group of playmakers at centre (Leon Draisaitl, Patrick Hager, Dominik Kahun, Daniel Pietta), however much less center depth, particularly regarding two-way players with strong defensive skills, including face-off specialists** (Marcel Goc**, Felix Schütz**, Marcus Kink & Gerrit Fauser missing)
... Pietta will carry a lot of defensive responsibilities. If he gets hurt, we'll get a problem, because then Patrick Hager will likely have to shift to the 4th line to replace him, while Frederik Tiffels will play center between Noebels and Wiederer, and Dominik Kahun's line will be the 2nd formation

- a much weaker group of wingers, lacking goalgetters with great offensive instincts like Leo Pföderl, Brooks Macek or Patrick Reimer who can decide a game on their own, and also lacking powerful defensive workers like Marcus Kink and David Wolf... don't be surprised, if Sturm chooses to re-convert Yannic Seidenberg into a defensively minded wing (for example on Kahun's LW)... we will very likely pay a price for lack of experience on the wing

- a core of four olympic defenders has been kept in Jonas Müller, Moritz Müller, Yannic Seidenberg and Björn Krupp, with Krupp being the only player recording minus... Sturm can be very happy with the additions of Seidenberg's older brother, Ebner, Mebus and Holzer... the only hitch is a lack of right-handed shooting guys (just Holzer)

- no idea whether Pielmeier or Treutle are ready to be the no.1, but the time is now to show... I would have preferred Aus den Birken

- one of PIT/WSH will be eliminated after the 2nd round of NHL playoffs, which is good for us, because either Tom Kühnhackl or Philipp Grubauer will then join the team. Which means that 1 goalie, and 1 forward won't get dressed.
If the series ends after game 5 (Saturday, May 5, 2018) either of those players could theoretically join for the third group match vs. the US, and I'd prefer Grubauer as a legit no.1 goalie, although Kühnhackl as a PK-specialist could be almost more important. A likely worst-case scenario (=series being decided in game 7, on May 9th, 2018) would mean that one of the guys could still help us vs. Latvia, Finland and Canada.
 
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Here's a very good article which among other things details the reasons for 12 out of 15 players (Sinan Akdag, Dennis Endras and Frank Mauer not mentioned) of the silver medal-winning team to miss the tournament.

7 players injured - Aus den Birken, D.Boyle, Hördler, Kink, Pföderl, D.Wolf, Fauser
3 players retired - P.Reimer, M.Goc, Ehrhoff
2 players declining for private reasons - Schütz, Macek

1 players didn't make final roster - Akdag
1 player not invited - Endras
1 player missing for unknown reason - Mauer

Coach Marco Sturm admits that the team rebuilding phase came much quicker than expected, and criticises the DEL's new talent & youth concept which STILL doesn't make it compulsory for the teams to dress a specific number of U23 players for each DEL match. He says he'd been looking over the pond to follow our few young players for a while (Michaelis, Tiffels, Wiederer, Eisenschmid, Sturm, Tuomie). Good!

Sturm kritisiert DEL-Nachwuchskonzept: „Wenn das die endgültige Lösung ist, dann ist ein Top-Acht-Platz in der Weltrangliste in der Zukunft nicht machbar“
 
Retroglyphs said:
Coach Marco Sturm admits that the team rebuilding phase came much quicker than expected, and criticises the DEL's new talent & youth concept which STILL doesn't make it compulsory for the teams to dress a specific number of U23 players for each DEL match. He says he'd been looking over the pond to follow our few young players for a while (Michaelis, Tiffels, Wiederer, Eisenschmid, Sturm, Tuomie). Good!

Sturm kritisiert DEL-Nachwuchskonzept: „Wenn das die endgültige Lösung ist, dann ist ein Top-Acht-Platz in der Weltrangliste in der Zukunft nicht machbar“
Click to expand...
If anyone really thought that the DEL was going to make it compulsory for teams to dress a number of U23 players, they are being silly. Seems like they already gave some concessions in allowing fewer contract athletes (if my awful google translate definition holds).
 
kabidjan18 said:
If anyone really thought that the DEL was going to make it compulsory for teams to dress a number of U23 players, they are being silly. Seems like they already gave some concessions in allowing fewer contract athletes (if my awful google translate definition holds).
Click to expand...

No one who is familiar with the DEL would ever expect that, but that'd still be THE necessary step in the right direction. :sarcasm:
 
The 2:3-loss in the shoot-out is a result I can very well live with under the given circumstances. Also, congrats to the Danes. Nothing's decided at all. :)
So, coach Marco Sturm did the only reasonable thing to do against a stronger opponenet today, and moved Patrick Hager up on Dominik Kahun's wing as there were none of Hager's olympic linemates left anyway. :thumbu:
Then he replaced Eisenschmid on Drai's wing with our lbest RW Mathias Plachta and formed a youngster line out of Tiffels, Michaelis and Eisenschmid.
Wonder how these three dudes + Wiederer did today - did anyone watch the game?
Anyway, Leon Draisaitl and Yasin Ehliz seem to click really well. Remember -you heard it here first. :popcorn:

#42 Yasin Ehliz*#29 Leon Draisaitl #22 Mathias Plachta*
#50 Patrick Hager* (A)#72 Dominik Kahun*#59 Manuel Wiederer
#92 Marcel Noebels*#86 Daniel Pietta#21 Nicolas Krämmer
#65 Marc Michaelis#95 Frederik Tiffels#58 Markus Eisenschmid
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
#27 Sebastian Uv ira #61 Mirko Höfflin (-)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
#5 Korbinian Holzer#24 Dennis Seidenberg (C)
#36 Yannic Seidenberg*#91 Moritz Müller* (A)
#40 Björn Krupp*#41 Jonas Müller*
#67 Bernhard Ebner#32 Oliver Mebus (-)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
#51 Timo Pielmeier*
#31 Niklas Treutle
#35 Mathias Niederberger (-)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
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Urbanskog said:
That's a ridiculous claim, Germany has qualified for quarterfinals the last two years and now they should be happy with remaining in the elite division? Besides, it looks like Germany might be able to scrape together a solid team this year — Islanders and Oilers are already effectively out of the playoff contention. As for the other teams with German players on them, in case they would all qualify for playoffs, some would surely have their season ended by the first round.
Click to expand...


I hate to do this (maybe I don't) but maybe this might be a lesson for some to not put too much weight into a strongly distorted tournament (Olympics) and believe that a tiger can changes its stripes over night.

This tournament is far from over and to me Korea is an absolute gimme game for Germany so that won't be a concern. They however still need to win against a strong Latvian team, which isn't impossible, but very difficult to do so. I just don't see them winning against Canada, nor Finland.

So yeah, I stand by my (now seemingly not so ridiculous) comments that Germany should be happy to stay at the A-level and just develop from there on out. Sure a QF would be great, but right after the Olympics Team Germany was penciled in as a sure fire QF candidate and maybe even a dark horse for the semis, and quite honestly, I find those comments a lot more ridiculous than saying "you will be disappointed if you expect the QF's"

I hope for the sake of German hockey that they will beat Latvia, but EVEN if they don't, staying at the A level at this point is good enough to get the young guys some experience.
 
IamNotADancer said:
I hate to do this (maybe I don't) but maybe this might be a lesson for some to not put too much weight into a strongly distorted tournament (Olympics) and believe that a tiger can changes its stripes over night.

This tournament is far from over and to me Korea is an absolute gimme game for Germany so that won't be a concern. They however still need to win against a strong Latvian team, which isn't impossible, but very difficult to do so. I just don't see them winning against Canada, nor Finland.

So yeah, I stand by my (now seemingly not so ridiculous) comments that Germany should be happy to stay at the A-level and just develop from there on out. Sure a QF would be great, but right after the Olympics Team Germany was penciled in as a sure fire QF candidate and maybe even a dark horse for the semis, and quite honestly, I find those comments a lot more ridiculous than saying "you will be disappointed if you expect the QF's"

I hope for the sake of German hockey that they will beat Latvia, but EVEN if they don't, staying at the A level at this point is good enough to get the young guys some experience.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure who you refer to when you write Germany was penciled in as a sure fire QF candidate, because hockey fans here in Germany pretty much knew that QF were the goal but never a given. Anyone who believed otherwise either doesn't know much about hockey or was just cocky...
 
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IamNotADancer said:
I hate to do this (maybe I don't) but maybe this might be a lesson for some to not put too much weight into a strongly distorted tournament (Olympics) and believe that a tiger can changes its stripes over night.

This tournament is far from over and to me Korea is an absolute gimme game for Germany so that won't be a concern. They however still need to win against a strong Latvian team, which isn't impossible, but very difficult to do so. I just don't see them winning against Canada, nor Finland.

So yeah, I stand by my (now seemingly not so ridiculous) comments that Germany should be happy to stay at the A-level and just develop from there on out. Sure a QF would be great, but right after the Olympics Team Germany was penciled in as a sure fire QF candidate and maybe even a dark horse for the semis, and quite honestly, I find those comments a lot more ridiculous than saying "you will be disappointed if you expect the QF's"

I hope for the sake of German hockey that they will beat Latvia, but EVEN if they don't, staying at the A level at this point is good enough to get the young guys some experience.
Click to expand...
That message was made before there was any clarity on what would the roster be like. Many of the players who had an important role in the Olympic success are gone now. And regardless, as stated above, no one ever considered a quarterfinal spot a given — it was clear that Denmark would be a tough opponent in their home tournament.
 
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Frannel said:
I'm not sure who you refer to when you write Germany was penciled in as a sure fire QF candidate, because hockey fans here in Germany pretty much knew that QF were the goal but never a given. Anyone who believed otherwise either doesn't know much about hockey or was just cocky...
Click to expand...

Read the beginning of this very thread. People called me ridiculous when I said "you will be disappointed if you expect the quarter finals".

Expecting something usually means, "yeah, that's going to happen" not "maybe it will happen, at least I hope it will happen".

Granted, most of those comments were made not long after the Olympics but damn expectations were unusually high for Team Germany around here.
I thought those expectations were unfair and didn't reflect the true skill level of Germany.
Never denied their potential but they will need more than just a handfull of NHL players to even think about being on the same compete level of even the "lower" top teams like Finland or the Czechs
 
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