WC: Team Germany

[Retroglyphs]

As Pens are eliminated will Tom Kuhnhackl come ?

I'm hearing that Sturm called too late - the tournament organizers had already signed him as new arena announcer.


No honestly, we need Tom Kühnhackl so desperately on our wing, and particularly in the penaltykilling units.

 

[IamNotADancer]

That message was made before there was any clarity on what would the roster be like. Many of the players who had an important role in the Olympic success are gone now. And regardless, as stated above, no one ever considered a quarterfinal spot a given — it was clear that Denmark would be a tough opponent in their home tournament.

I'll let your own comments speak for themselves. First you called my claim that "with NHL players Germany does not close the gap to the other teams as expected" ridiculous, then you are telling me that "most of the Olympics roster guys are missing so that doesn't hold water", doesn't the second sentence make you wonder who those NHLers would have replaced? So what is it? Either Team Germany gets stronger with the NHL players or the Olympics roster is stronger without the NHL players?

 

[Urbanskog]

I'll let your own comments speak for themselves. First you called my claim that "with NHL players Germany does not close the gap to the other teams as expected" ridiculous, then you are telling me that "most of the Olympics roster guys are missing so that doesn't hold water", doesn't the second sentence make you wonder who those NHLers would have replaced? So what is it? Either Team Germany gets stronger with the NHL players or the Olympics roster is stronger without the NHL players?

I'm not sure what is it that you mean here. It's not like say, Ehrhoff or Goc would have been replaced by NHL additions. Not to mention the goaltending situation: no Greiss, no Grubauer, no Aus den Birken.

 

[IamNotADancer]

I'm not sure what is it that you mean here. It's not like say, Ehrhoff or Goc would have been replaced by NHL additions. Not to mention the goaltending situation: no Greiss, no Grubauer, no Aus den Birken.

Ah yes Birken and his whopping 89 save percentage would have made a huge difference. Greiss nor Grubauer were so-called Olympic heros, so whats the difference? Sure, Ehrhoff and Goc hurt, but again even with both of them would the results be vastly different?

Look, everyone is wrong once in a while, there is no shame in admitting it. Expectations were high, I get it, but as I said, maybe it will help you learn to not pass off somebody's opinion as ridiculous just because it differs from yours.

 

[Retroglyphs]

I'll let your own comments speak for themselves. First you called my claim that "with NHL players Germany does not close the gap to the other teams as expected" ridiculous, then you are telling me that "most of the Olympics roster guys are missing so that doesn't hold water", doesn't the second sentence make you wonder who those NHLers would have replaced? So what is it? Either Team Germany gets stronger with the NHL players or the Olympics roster is stronger without the NHL players?

I think you should chasten your temper - it's not either, or.

1) A retained olympic roster with NHLers (Grubauer-Draisaitl-Kühnhackl-Seidenberg-Holzer) would have been a significantly stronger group with a good chance to make the QF - that is true.

2) What we have though at the moment is 25 minus 15. Fifteen. Almost all of the missing players are key players that would have given us centre depth, firepower and grit on the wing, a better defense, and more options for the special teams. We had to replace them with young talents who have next to no international experience.

So, how are 5 NHLers supposed to replace 15 regular NT guys who played an awesome tournament in Pyeongchang?
Yes, we should happy, if we got off with a black eye.

 

[Urbanskog]

Ah yes Birken and his whopping 89 save percentage would have made a huge difference. Greiss nor Grubauer were so-called Olympic heros, so whats the difference? Sure, Ehrhoff and Goc hurt, but again even with both of them would the results be vastly different?

Look, everyone is wrong once in a while, there is no shame in admitting it. Expectations were high, I get it, but as I said, maybe it will help you learn to not pass off somebody's opinion as ridiculous just because it differs from yours.

Your opinion was that they should be happy with staying in the elite division which I indeed considered ridiculous, and still do, they are in the same group with South Korea after all. Even ignoring the Olympic success that they had, they have qualified for the quarterfinals the last two seasons in the World Championship and have been relegated exactly once from the elite division during this millennium. Yet you somehow seem to think that it was somehow unjust of me to "pass off" your opinion as ridiculous.

 

[Retroglyphs]

Ah yes Birken and his whopping 89 save percentage would have made a huge difference. Greiss nor Grubauer were so-called Olympic heros, so whats the difference? Sure, Ehrhoff and Goc hurt, but again even with both of them would the results be vastly different?

Look, everyone is wrong once in a while, there is no shame in admitting it. Expectations were high, I get it, but as I said, maybe it will help you learn to not pass off somebody's opinion as ridiculous just because it differs from yours.

89 SV% - so what?!? Danny Aus den Birken did a great job in Pyeongchang. I'm not going to throw him under the bus because of the one our other goal from a top player he let in (e.g. Nikita Gusev's goal). His overall performance was great - otherwise we wouldn't have won against top nations in a row.

And, secondly. It's not only about M.Goc and Ehrhoff, but we're talking about guys like Schütz, Macek, Pföderl, Reimer (who scored the gamewinner vs. SWE), Mauer, Kink, Fauser, Hördler...

 

[IamNotADancer]

How so, I wonder? Germany will have a say in who's going to the QFs. The team has shown great determination, and performed really well in crucial situations vs. top teams at the Olympics. Now adding their No.1 centre, their most experienced D'man and their best goaltender, they'll be a tough nut to crack for any team in the stronger A pool.

Let me quote one of your previous posts to answer your now somewhat changed current stance as to how strong Team Germany is now.

"Top teams at the Olympics" are not equal to top teams in a tournament where NHL players are permitted.
You guys believed that having German NHL players would benefit Team Germany greatly, well.. it hasn't as of yet.

Staying in the A group is a success for Team Germany, it's really that simple. Saying that "if you expect quarter finals you will be disappointed" is "ridiculous" makes you look like you are "expecting" the quarters, i.e. "quarter finals are a given"

As for your last sentence, well I remember when 1-3 players (Hecht, Sturm, Koelzig) was enough to turn Team Germany into one of the strongest teams they ever had. So yeah.. 5 players is a pretty big deal.

 

[Retroglyphs]

Let me quote one of your previous posts to answer your now somewhat changed current stance as to how strong Team Germany is now.

"Top teams at the Olympics" are not equal to top teams in a tournament where NHL players are permitted.
You guys believed that having German NHL players would benefit Team Germany greatly, well.. it hasn't as of yet.

Staying in the A group is a success for Team Germany, it's really that simple. Saying that "if you expect quarter finals you will be disappointed" is "ridiculous" makes you look like you are "expecting" the quarters, i.e. "quarter finals are a given"

As for your last sentence, well I remember when 1-3 players (Hecht, Sturm, Koelzig) was enough to turn Team Germany into one of the strongest teams they ever had. So yeah.. 5 players is a pretty big deal.

Again, of course it would have, if the olympic roster had been retained.
But you're constantly avoiding that argument, because you want to make it look like, as if it doesn't matter that 15 regular guys are missing. End of discussion for me, sry.

 

[IamNotADancer]

Your opinion was that they should be happy with staying in the elite division which I indeed considered ridiculous, and still do, they are in the same group with South Korea after all. Even ignoring the Olympic success that they had, they have qualified for the quarterfinals the last two seasons in the World Championship and have been relegated exactly once from the elite division during this millennium. Yet you somehow seem to think that it was somehow unjust of me to "pass off" your opinion as ridiculous.

Every year you have that one team that moves up from division 1 into the big leagues, and every year you have that one team that in reality has no business being in the big league, this year it's South Korea. What their existence in Group A has to do with Germany being content with being a "big league" team, I'm not sure.

I'm starting to believe we are running into some sort of language barrier here because by the looks of it, it appears that you believe that I said, or am implying that Germany was or is a candidate for relegation, which is absolutely not the case here.
Short of the Koreans finding a time machine and abducting Wayne Gretzky they will be relegated.

Let me try again here, Team Germany should be content (happy) with staying in the top flight and focus on using this experience to develop their young players, as opposed to expect a sure fire quarter finals appearance and seed discontent if they don't reach that "expected" goal.
Every team taking part in any sort of tournament should want to have the goal of winning it all, not every team however should expect to reach said goal.

How does that sound?

 

[Urbanskog]

Every year you have that one team that moves up from division 1 into the big leagues, and every year you have that one team that in reality has no business being in the big league, this year it's South Korea. What their existence in Group A has to do with Germany being content with being a "big league" team, I'm not sure.

I'm starting to believe we are running into some sort of language barrier here because by the looks of it, it appears that you believe that I said, or am implying that Germany was or is a candidate for relegation, which is absolutely not the case here.
Short of the Koreans finding a time machine and abducting Wayne Gretzky they will be relegated.

Let me try again here, Team Germany should be content (happy) with staying in the top flight and focus on using this experience to develop their young players, as opposed to expect a sure fire quarter finals appearance and seed discontent if they don't reach that "expected" goal.
Every team taking part in any sort of tournament should want to have the goal of winning it all, not every team however should expect to reach said goal.

How does that sound?

Why should they be "happy" with something that has essentially been granted for them for nearly two decades? No one here, at least I for one did not, expected the quarterfinal spot to be a sure thing. It seems like the language barrier comes from your part.

 

[IamNotADancer]

89 SV% - so what?!? Danny Aus den Birken did a great job in Pyeongchang. I'm not going to throw him under the bus because of the one our other goal from a top player he let in (e.g. Nikita Gusev's goal). His overall performance was great - otherwise we wouldn't have won against top nations in a row.

And, secondly. It's not only about M.Goc and Ehrhoff, but we're talking about guys like Schütz, Macek, Pföderl, Reimer (who scored the gamewinner vs. SWE), Mauer, Kink, Fauser, Hördler...

We should start counting all the players Team Canada/USA/Sweden/Finland etc. etc. was missing at the Olympics, I wonder what your opinion of your Olympic heroes would be had they had to face the likes of Crosby, McDavid and so on and so on.
It's one thing to shine in an essential minor league tournament, it's another to play with the big boys. These are the big boys and Team Germany is exactly where I, and obviously many others, expected them to be. Barely clinging on to a chance to make it into the quarter finals and then flame out.

 

[IamNotADancer]

Why should they be "happy" with something that has essentially been granted for them for nearly two decades? No one here, at least I for one did not, expected the quarterfinal spot to be a sure thing. It seems like the language barrier comes from your part.

Because unless you are 12 years old 2006 is not too long ago. German hockey has always fluctuated in quality and if there is one thing they need it's a constant influx of consistent quality play and not a gung ho attitude in which "just being in the top flight isn't enough.

And as I said, your comments up until your last one indicated anything but somebody who wasn't expecting the quarter finals from Team Germany.

Not sure how well your command of the English language is, but I think you may want to work on it to understand the context in which the words "happy" or "content" can be used.

In any case, I'll leave you be. Try to enjoy the tournament.

 

[Urbanskog]

Because unless you are 12 years old 2006 is not too long ago. German hockey has always fluctuated in quality and if there is one thing they need it's a constant influx of consistent quality play and not a gung ho attitude in which "just being in the top flight isn't enough.

And as I said, your comments up until your last one indicated anything but somebody who wasn't expecting the quarter finals from Team Germany.

Not sure how well your command of the English language is, but I think you may want to work on it to understand the context in which the words "happy" or "content" can be used.

In any case, I'll leave you be. Try to enjoy the tournament.

That's simply your own interpretation. Quarterfinals has been a probable goal for the German team for long, it's like you think that they should have lowered their expectations for this year for whatever the reason. Never did I state that advancing to the quarterfinals would be a certainty, just that it should be the goal, something that they could be satisfied with upon achieving.

 

[Retroglyphs]

Because unless you are 12 years old 2006 is not too long ago. German hockey has always fluctuated in quality and if there is one thing they need it's a constant influx of consistent quality play and not a gung ho attitude in which "just being in the top flight isn't enough.

And as I said, your comments up until your last one indicated anything but somebody who wasn't expecting the quarter finals from Team Germany.

Not sure how well your command of the English language is, but I think you may want to work on it to understand the context in which the words "happy" or "content" can be used.

In any case, I'll leave you be. Try to enjoy the tournament.

That is correct , and I can easily agree with you on that, without diminishing the German team's great success in Pyeongchang.

 

[Frannel]

Read the beginning of this very thread. People called me ridiculous when I said "you will be disappointed if you expect the quarter finals".

Expecting something usually means, "yeah, that's going to happen" not "maybe it will happen, at least I hope it will happen".

Granted, most of those comments were made not long after the Olympics but damn expectations were unusually high for Team Germany around here.
I thought those expectations were unfair and didn't reflect the true skill level of Germany.
Never denied their potential but they will need more than just a handfull of NHL players to even think about being on the same compete level of even the "lower" top teams like Finland or the Czechs

I did read the beginning of this thread. The only person who mentioned the word "expectation" in connection with the quaterfinals there is you!
Everybody else said, the QF should be the goal, that this summer it's going to be Germany's time back to hockey reality again and things like this - nobobdy said QF are a given! And nobobdy called your differing opinion ridiculous.
Just because you seem to have made up your mind about German hockey fans being unrealistic doesn't mean they actually are.
On a sidenote: The NHL seems to notice German players aren't that far off - two players just signed contracts with NHL teams on top of those seven or eight who play either NHL or another North American league already.

 

[Frannel]

I'm hearing that Sturm called too late - the tournament organizers had already signed him as new arena announcer.


No honestly, we need Tom Kühnhackl so desperately on our wing, and particularly in the penaltykilling units.

Kühnhackl isn't coming:

 

[PenDuhNotPittsburgh]

To reach the quarters you don't even need to be even closely to any of the top teams.
You just need to be better then Latvia, Denmark, Norway etc, which Germans are under normal circumstances.
Not in a way that you would say they win 9 out of 10, but 2 out of 3 best on best games.

So yeah if you win those direct duels against those teams you are in the quarter finals no matter what you do against Canada, Finnland etc.
So expecting quarter finals wasn't much. it would be the standart unless injuries cause you to play two and a half men on every single line

 

[Frannel]

To reach the quarters you don't even need to be even closely to any of the top teams.
You just need to be better then Latvia, Denmark, Norway etc, which Germans are under normal circumstances.
Not in a way that you would say they win 9 out of 10, but 2 out of 3 best on best games.

So yeah if you win those direct duels against those teams you are in the quarter finals no matter what you do against Canada, Finnland etc.
So expecting quarter finals wasn't much. it would be the standart unless injuries cause you to play two and a half men on every single line

Exactly.
In context with this: Isn't it interesting that Denmark beat Finland yesterday?