Artorius Horus T
sincerety
Kemiläinen been really bad today, didnt impress vs sweden either, Suomela just cant do anything with or without the puck
Team Finland WC 2023
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mattihp
Registered User
I just don't understand the SHL. Did Suomela's team let him just wait for pucks? He is a decent player, but should not be a top scorer, even less one of the best scorers ever.
Artorius Horus T
sincerety
FinPanda
Barkov Stanley cup champ!
After seeing today's game, which was very disappointing I definitely want to see full UFA line in effect tomorrow. Biggest reason for the messy game was probably that the lines change so much from game to game, so can't be too judgemental about today's game. Second reason probably was that Swiss played well and executed their strategy well. Maybe the lack of good puck moving D-men also showed today.
I'm really not impressed by Kemiläinen and it's not only about the stupid penalty that he took at the end, but he almost gave Swiss a breakaway on another PP when he was doing some weird unncessary spinning on the blue line. I am pretty sure that he did the same thing in other game where the opponent got a break away or odd man rush from that, but I don't think we have any other choice than to select him to the WHC team. Some stuff that works in SM-Liiga doesn't necessarily work in the international games and that worries me. Kemiläinen has never proven himself at this level.
Might be that he just needs permanent line mates. The lines are changing too much, but that's the nature of these practice camps. He looked best with this MaG-Suomela-Kapanen line. I'd like to see Suomela and Kapanen together again, maybe Pesonen with them. Then MaG in the UFA line.
Lammikko was very invisible that game and has been during all games, but in some way that might even be a good thing. Though he does look like an offensive black hole right now, despite of his quite productive season in the Swiss league. So do we want that defensive third line is the question or maybe Lammikko is a winger of 4th line or not a selection at all.
Yeah I agree. It's time to unleash the ufa line and see if it's still as good as it used to
Checked it out. Thanks!
Time for another risky guess based on what Jokinen said:
Laine-Rantanen-Hartikainen
Pesonen-Manninen-Kapanen
Armia-Suomela-Kakko
Sallinen-Björninen-Anttila
Granlund, Lammikko
One game to go, and the final team will likely be announced soon after, so I'll make my prediction:
Larmi
Olkinuora
Heljanko
Lehtonen
Määttä
Lindbohm
Seppälä
Pokka
Ohtamaa
Riikola
Matinpalo
Rantanen
Laine
Kakko
Kapanen
Armia
Manninen
Hartikainen
MaG
Pesonen
Suomela
Björninen
Anttila
Lammikko
Oksanen
Larmi
Olkinuora
Heljanko
Lehtonen
Määttä
Lindbohm
Seppälä
Pokka
Ohtamaa
Riikola
Matinpalo
Rantanen
Laine
Kakko
Kapanen
Armia
Manninen
Hartikainen
MaG
Pesonen
Suomela
Björninen
Anttila
Lammikko
Oksanen
MatBarzal
Registered User
- Apr 26, 2022
- 202
- 159
Friend, you have gaps in your memory. And what about the World Cup under the auspices of the NHL In 2016? Was Fasel involved there too?
Can I remind you about the semifinals of the World Cup in 2012?
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
Finland won Russia in 2016 in the semifinal. 2012 semifinal and 2017 bronze medal games are the only times in recent history when Russia defeated Finland fair and square in the important games.Friend, you have gaps in your memory. And what about the World Cup under the auspices of the NHL In 2016? Was Fasel involved there too?
2014 gold medal game was proof of massive corruption in the IIHF. Motive for favouring the Russia in the gold medal game, was because Finland humiliated Russia in Sochi few months prior in their home tournament and Belarus is basically in their backyard, they wasn't going to allow it to happen again.
Rene Fasel is extremely pro-russian, it's no secret. He doesn't even try hide it even in 2014 gold medal game, Fasel was watching the game with Putin and Lukashenko in the same skybox. Fasel also celebrated every goal what Russia scored in that game, and also when Russia "won" the game.
The referee was an american from NCAA league and after the tournament he became KHL referee. Russian head coach Oleg Znarok was suspended from the gold medal game, but he was in contact with the assistant coach with radio phone. Which was against the rules. Rene Fasel did everything in his power to see Russia succeed after the Sochi tournament.
Excellent video proof of corrupted IIHF officials helping Russia to win the world championship:
MatBarzal
Registered User
- Apr 26, 2022
- 202
- 159
Unfortunately Finland was already out of the tournie before that game even commenced. Finland lost to both team NA and Sweden. Win or lose they were out of the tournie while Russia had to win in order to advance to the semifinals ahead of NA. In other words, that win against Finland meant diddly squat because Finland had nothing to play for. Not a good measuring stick at the time to see which team was better "best on best".
I will now try to describe the season of IK Oskarshamn and the number of points of Antti Suomela.
The first and at the same time important fact was Martin Filander's game system. The IKO games were very offensive, fun and if a coach can put together two attacking formations, it means victory against the worse defending teams.
The second fact was Patrick Karlkvist. What Hartikainen means to Finland, Karlkvist means to Suomela. So if I look at the stats, Suomela is the best scorer in the SHL and Karlkvist has the most assists per goal.
Together with Skelleftea, IKO scored the most goals - 165. Only these two teams were above the 160 goal mark. Only Växjö, Färjestad and Örebro were above 150 goals. But IKO also got 159 goals, the goal difference was only +6...Växjö was +42 and Skelleftea +47. So really a lot of offensive play, but also a lot of puck losses and conceded goals. And this style of play is good in the regular season, not so much in the Playoffs. And so IKO's season ended in the preliminary round of the playoff, when they lost twice by a goal against Lulea and won only once.
It is therefore a question of how to perceive the game of Suomela to the needs of NT. If Jalonen ties him down too much with tactics, he won't have a good tournament and will likely bring disappointment and frustration to the Finnish fans. But if Jalonen gives him more independence in his system and has offensively capable teammates, his game will make sense and be productive. But only Jukka Jalonen has to decide this..
The first and at the same time important fact was Martin Filander's game system. The IKO games were very offensive, fun and if a coach can put together two attacking formations, it means victory against the worse defending teams.
The second fact was Patrick Karlkvist. What Hartikainen means to Finland, Karlkvist means to Suomela. So if I look at the stats, Suomela is the best scorer in the SHL and Karlkvist has the most assists per goal.
Together with Skelleftea, IKO scored the most goals - 165. Only these two teams were above the 160 goal mark. Only Växjö, Färjestad and Örebro were above 150 goals. But IKO also got 159 goals, the goal difference was only +6...Växjö was +42 and Skelleftea +47. So really a lot of offensive play, but also a lot of puck losses and conceded goals. And this style of play is good in the regular season, not so much in the Playoffs. And so IKO's season ended in the preliminary round of the playoff, when they lost twice by a goal against Lulea and won only once.
It is therefore a question of how to perceive the game of Suomela to the needs of NT. If Jalonen ties him down too much with tactics, he won't have a good tournament and will likely bring disappointment and frustration to the Finnish fans. But if Jalonen gives him more independence in his system and has offensively capable teammates, his game will make sense and be productive. But only Jukka Jalonen has to decide this..
Man, the 2016 World Cup was a huge lottery win for you Finns. You understood that there is no point in taking deserving veterans or average players with their peak past their prime for this tournament. The result was absolutely not important at that moment, you did an excellent thing for the future - you had a young team, a very young team and you gave a chance to the future before the current result. If I were GM, I would do the exact same thing, I wouldn't look at the present but into the future. The Czechs did exactly the opposite, took an old and mediocre team and the result was exactly as expected. Yes, I know that the Czechs did not have as much talent as Finland, but they could have involved more young players, but they literally screwed up.
Too bad rantanen wasn't there and I believe Finland would have done better without Lauri Marjamäki lol. Can't stand that guy. Can't remember what happened with Czech in that tournie? For sure at least one win.
They won a match in which they had an opponent who was already eliminated and had no motivation to play, just like Finland against Russia. Yes, that's another thing. Although Finland selected a promising team with an excellent future, they were unlucky in selecting a coach. It just sometimes happens that you have a great coach but a weak roster or vice versa, you have excellent players but their potential is killed by bad management.
I like the unusual approach in splitting Manninen and Hartikainen. It's something unique and could work. Realistically it probably won't happen, because USA game comes soon and we can't do too wild testing and we have to be ready for that game in time, but those could be lethal lines.
I pretty much agree, good picks. Maybe Sallinen missing is the only questionable one. I'd drop out Oksanen and take both Sallinen & Lammikko as unstamped players. So you have Lammikko taking Sallinen's spot as they are quite similar. So I'm guessing Lammikko & Oksanen start unstamped, while we're still looking at NHL results? Dallas is our best shot.
I also agree with Larmi being the starter. I really hope that both Larmi and Olkinuora each gets one top country. So USA for one of them and Sweden for one of them. The schedule goes like this and this is how I'd insert the goalies for the first games:
12 MAY - FIN-USA - Olkinuora
13 MAY - FIN-GER - Larmi - A back to back game. Luckily this is a back to back game for Germany as well. Germany plays Sweden on May 12th.
Break day - May 14th.
15 MAY - FIN-SWE - Larmi - It feels only right that the best goalie of SHL plays against Sweden. Didn't he also get playoffs MVP trophy in SHL?
After this we get easier schedule and we have a lot data on this Larmi vs Olkinuora battle, but currently I got Larmi as the starter.
Kemiläinen out seems to be right move also, but hopefully Kemiläinen gets to play tomorrow and still have a chance.
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And we all remember Malkin's cross check breaking Haula's jaw. If I remember right, he didnt even get 2 minutes of that?
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
I was thinking which one you mean, since you referred the 2012 WHC tournament as World Cup as well. I though you also meant the 2016 WHC tournament.
But like it was already mentioned, it was totally meaningless game for Finland. The official record for all Finland - Russia games since 1993:
WHC:
1997 FIN 1 - RUS 0
1998 FIN 0 - RUS 1
1999 FIN 0 - RUS 0, (tie game)
2002 FIN 1 - RUS 1(SF)
2004 FIN 1(QR) - RUS 0
2005 FIN 0 - RUS 1(QF)
2007 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 1
2008 FIN 0 - RUS 1(SF)
2010 FIN 0 - RUS 1(QR)
2011 FIN 2(QR/S) - RUS 0
2012 FIN 0 - RUS 1(SF)
2013 FIN 1 - RUS 0
2014 FIN 0 - RUS 2(GMG)
2015 FIN 1 - RUS 0
2016 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 0
2017 FIN 0 - RUS 1(BMG)
2019 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 0
10-10-1 combined
4-6 for Russia in Qualifying round, Quarterfinals, Semifinals, Medal round
Olympics:
1994 FIN 2(BMG) - RUS 0
1998 FIN 0 - RUS 2(SF)
2002 FIN 1 - RUS 0
2006 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 0
2014 FIN 1(QF) - RUS 0
2022 FIN 1(GMG) - RUS 0
6-2 for Finland
World Cup
1996 FIN 0 - RUS 1(QF)
2016 FIN 0 - RUS 1
0-2 for Russia
1997 FIN 1 - RUS 0
1998 FIN 0 - RUS 1
1999 FIN 0 - RUS 0, (tie game)
2002 FIN 1 - RUS 1(SF)
2004 FIN 1(QR) - RUS 0
2005 FIN 0 - RUS 1(QF)
2007 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 1
2008 FIN 0 - RUS 1(SF)
2010 FIN 0 - RUS 1(QR)
2011 FIN 2(QR/S) - RUS 0
2012 FIN 0 - RUS 1(SF)
2013 FIN 1 - RUS 0
2014 FIN 0 - RUS 2(GMG)
2015 FIN 1 - RUS 0
2016 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 0
2017 FIN 0 - RUS 1(BMG)
2019 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 0
10-10-1 combined
4-6 for Russia in Qualifying round, Quarterfinals, Semifinals, Medal round
Olympics:
1994 FIN 2(BMG) - RUS 0
1998 FIN 0 - RUS 2(SF)
2002 FIN 1 - RUS 0
2006 FIN 1(SF) - RUS 0
2014 FIN 1(QF) - RUS 0
2022 FIN 1(GMG) - RUS 0
6-2 for Finland
World Cup
1996 FIN 0 - RUS 1(QF)
2016 FIN 0 - RUS 1
0-2 for Russia
Total record in best on best is 3-4 for Russia, but 2-2 in "playoff stage"
--------------------------------
In last 10 years the record is for Finland 6-4 in all tournaments, 4-2 for Finland in "playoff stage. 9-8 for Finland in last 15 years, 7-5 for Finland in "playoff stage".
He didn't get shit, im pretty sure it's in that video. EDIT. first 30 sec
All right. I didn't check the video now because I've seen it in the past, but yeah that video needs to be brought up once in a while to remind people what corruption in hockey is. You are absolutely right about that.
