Olympics: Team Finland 2022

[illone84]

The commenter I responded to asked about Granlund's on-ice value (even though it was an answer I already provided), but let's not kid ourselves here - the biggest reason he will make this team is his off-ice value and past pedigree.

The big difference between the 2010 team and the 2022 one is that the former didn't exactly lack players who had been around the NT block a few times - it was more or less the last hurrah of the generation that had shouldered our hopes for the last 15 years.

While it won't be the first tango to most of our leading players, most of them having dressed for at least one major tournament in the past, the pickings of those who have seen it all will be rather sparse. And its hard to find a coach who doesn't value players like that at all. Especially if said player is far from being dead weight - I mean, what mostly gets me is that people here are talking about Granlund here as if he was some kind of has-been rather than among the three most important forwards of his NHL club. We might nowadays have players who do X or Y better than him, but as a whole Granlund is still a unique package that will add a plenty of value into this team.

I agree, I do believe he will make the team for the points you have made in earlier posts. I am fully aware of his value and if you look back at the 2016 world cup, he was Finland's best player imho. Anyways, I am just saying I wouldn't be that surprised if he didn't make this olympic team that is pretty damn stacked on the forward side of things.

 

[FiLe]

Anyways, I am just saying I wouldn't be that surprised if he didn't make this olympic team that is pretty damn stacked on the forward side of things.

As much as saying "never say never" is asking for trouble, I'll still have to put my money where my mouth is and say that I'll be damn surprised if he's left out if healthy.

 

[Sanf]

I agree, I do believe he will make the team for the points you have made in earlier posts. I am fully aware of his value and if you look back at the 2016 world cup, he was Finland's best player imho. Anyways, I am just saying I wouldn't be that surprised if he didn't make this olympic team that is pretty damn stacked on the forward side of things.

Yeah and he was a big part of Selänne´s "swan song" in Sochi. Selänne was selected for the best player of´the tournament, but that was because it was good story. IMO Granlund was the best Finnish forward in that tournament too. He really need to fall of the cliff badly in the early part of this season to be left out.

 

[illone84]

Yeah and he was a big part of Selänne´s "swan song" in Sochi. Selänne was selected for the best player of´the tournament, but that was because it was good story. IMO Granlund was the best Finnish forward in that tournament too. He really need to fall of the cliff badly in the early part of this season to be left out.

True. Although he has definitely lost a few steps since 2014. Anyways, I think he bounces back this season. Should get about 50pt.

 

[illone84]

The olympics in beijing will be played on nhl sized ice, right?

 

[FiLe]

The olympics in beijing will be played on nhl sized ice, right?

Correct.

As a matter of fact - the 2022, 2023 and 2024 World Championships will also be played in the narrow box.

 

[Sanf]

To my experience, it's one of those words people who think they're smarter than they are throw around because they think it's making them look smart. In other words, it's in the same category as "delayed start", which a certain self-proclaimed analyst is fond of.

Often I get the same feeling.

Complitely OT. I really do not care that much about the man, but I have to give him props of challenging and aggitating the hockey media to talk a bit deeper about hockey. Hockey journalism often was zero talk. Kind of stuff that my old mother could write after randomly watching a game. Atleast there is small step forward in there.

 

[Svedu]

Yeah Jussi Jokinen came to my mind, but I don´t feel that you can compare Granlund. Jokinen as best was complimentary player in line with better players. I did understand what Jalonen did when dropping him even though i might not agree. Granlund can even "drive" a line. He has the playmaking and offensive abilities to play in top three lines and in PP.

And age should not matter. This is not a tournament where you drive in players who might (or might not) be progressing upwards. We haven´t had this kind of tournament in 8 years and who knows when the next will be. What would be the purpose to drive in players here. That thay maybe, possibly, hopefully someday they represent Finland in WHC? Or to help their NHL career and current employer?

Hockey IQ is a really trendy word, but often I do not understand on what purposes it is used. People talk about extremely high IQ players and then at the same time mention that they may be lackind defensively. Reading game defensively, ice awareness, positioning as weakness with high hockey IQ? Those are "hockey iq" parts that can be teached even to overall quite limited players.

@Svedu Can you explain what you mean with the high IQ with your listed players compared to Granlund?

Exactly, age shouldn't matter. I want to see the best roster and best team available. I don't see Granlund as a top6 at this very moment and roles are important in Jalonens system.
The thing with Granlund is that he doesn't even have the speed and intensity a lot of other smaller players can have. Like Toni Rajala, Heponiemi, Kiviranta or player with other nationalities like Tatar, Gaudreau etc.

IQ for me is awareness and how quickly the player can scan the ice and his surroundings, how to know what to do before opponents, giving you the time to decide when to do what and when it's time to improvise etc. Timing is one of many things I would include to the meaning of the word. Instincts are another. Granlund has great offensive awareness. Because he's able to read the play with ease. That's how he's able to create a lot, even when he's never been gifted physically because Granlund is neither strong nor fast. Imagine if he didn't scan the ice well? He would´ve probably been an average Liiga player or something above that.
The thing is that compared to similar (or somewhat similar) players like Teräväinen and Aho there is not much Granlund has to his advantage, rather the opposite.
Regarding the word IQ, I would say Granlund has high IQ and that's why he manages to play in the NHL. But that doesn't necessarily have to mean that you are the best in every zone and so on. Here I want to mention a player like the Russian Marat Khusnutdinov. I could see him develop and become a important role player for a Russian national team in the future even if he's a bit small and perhaps a bit weaker. Why? Because he has shown defensive IQ and he knows how to move his quick feet.
Another young Finn I´m high on is Heinola. He's a player I wouldn't call best at anything. Above average or good passer, good deker etc. But by no means is he the strongest nor the fastest. If you saw the WJC´s you probably caught his ability to read the game, especially offensively if anything. He stood out a whole lot. He was amazing with the puck, decision after decision, calm and collected, calculated or improvised. Just seemed like he did everything with ease, like opponents would've processed the game in slow-motion compared to him. That is IQ for me, when a player knows the next step before the majority on the pitch or ice.

I could make a comparison with other team sports like football or basketball. Let's take Xavi or Deco as an example. They were great players with IQ, even if they weren't the most athletic they managed well because of their smarts and technical abilities.
But then again, If you would have given me a golden Iniesta vs a golden Xavi I would've chosen Iniesta without any hesitation. Why? Because he had many of Xavis strengths but he was able to do it a lot faster and he was gifted with more speed and his first step was a lot quicker. That made him even more unpredictable.
So, my point here is that Aho is more of a Iniesta and Granlund a Xavi. In the same way I could make the comparison with Teräväinen being similar to a slower player like Zidane. Both Xavi and Zidane were playmakers but Zidane were a lot more lethal offensively with his shot (Teräväinen).
My point is: Granlund shares the similar strengths, he makes his teammates better but so does Aho and Teräväinen. The difference is that Aho is able to "Do his man" and shoot. Able is perhaps the wrong word, well let's just say that Aho is better at that.
Therefor player likes Teräväinen and Aho become a dual threat because they don't need their mates as much as Granlund needs. Well, that's my opinion at least.

What happens if there is a OT with 4v4 for example? The less players there are on ice, the more does their individual skills matter. Things like speed, their shot etc. That is actually a good example because I wouldn't have big hopes if Granlund stepped on the ice. His weaknesses would show even more.
You are actually mentioning an important word here, limited or limitation. It's Granlunds physical limitations and lack of a great shot that makes him questionable in my books.
Kapanen comes up in my mind, not as smart as Granlund but in 4v4? I believe I would prefer Kapanen with his speed paired with other smart centers than Granlund. These are things coaches will probably consider when selecting their rosters.

 

[Svedu]

*Yawn*. I guess all I'll say is that I'm glad you're not in charge of picking this team, let alone coaching it.

For the record, I'm also glad we have a man far more competent than yours truly.

I already gave you versatility - the ability to play in any position in the forward lineup at least adequately. I'm guessing you had nothing to say to that so you conveniently decided to ignore it.

Luckily though, Granlund isn't being left out of this team if he's healthy (and he'll be given a spot in one of the PP units as well), so I don't have to trouble my head with your opinions about him - which you're of course fully entitled to.

And let's not forget "*Yawn*. I guess all I'll say is that I'm glad you're not in charge of picking this team, let alone coaching it.

For the record, I'm also glad we have a man far more competent than yours truly."

Google the word wiseacre, you are the definition of that word. In Finnish I would call you a pilkunnussija and in Swedish straight up punktknullare. You give me the feeling that you are a yes man, old merits matter the most. "All the good old lads", let's get together and rule without questioning anything.
Buddy, that's not how elite sports works.

Versatility my *ss. Do you honestly believe Granlund is the only one out there able to play as a center and winger? What about Aho, Teräväinen, Hintz, Kuokkanen? The list goes on and as I mentioned before, I truly believe you underestimate other Finnish players. So there you are, there is your answer. You've not even managed to answer my questions and here you are whining. Is it my duty to learn you everything? You are demanding a whole lot but offering me and others less.
Let me repeat myself, I don't know if you have a hard time reading or if you just ignored my earlier question. In what way would Granlund offer us more than other wingers in a third line? Skating? Defensive awareness? Scoring? Tell me.

Imagine reading you of all people write "which a certain self-proclaimed analyst is fond of." Quite bizarre.

 

[QnebO]

Jalonen coached the WJC 2016 home gold team. Puljujärvi - Aho - Laine was epic line there. I believe that will be one line at first at least.

In this tournament, Pulju and Laine are going to be high maintenance players (who posses high reward, too). But the history of the line is good enough to try it and Aho brings quite a maintenance.

That will leave the another top line looking good too. Rantanen - Barkov -Teräväinen.

The other option is to use Aho - Teräväinen tandem.

 

[ujju2]

Jalonen coached the WJC 2016 home gold team. Puljujärvi - Aho - Laine was epic line there. I believe that will be one line at first at least.

In this tournament, Pulju and Laine are going to be high maintenance players (who posses high reward, too). But the history of the line is good enough to try it and Aho brings quite a maintenance.

That will leave the another top line looking good too. Rantanen - Barkov -Teräväinen.

The other option is to use Aho - Teräväinen tandem.

Not sure what you mean. Puljujarvi is trusted in all situations in Edmonton and over the past 2 years has really solidified his position as both a great player and great teammate.

 

[Sanf]

Exactly, age shouldn't matter. I want to see the best roster and best team available. I don't see Granlund as a top6 at this very moment and roles are important in Jalonens system.
The thing with Granlund is that he doesn't even have the speed and intensity a lot of other smaller players can have. Like Toni Rajala, Heponiemi, Kiviranta or player with other nationalities like Tatar, Gaudreau etc.

IQ for me is awareness and how quickly the player can scan the ice and his surroundings, how to know what to do before opponents, giving you the time to decide when to do what and when it's time to improvise etc. Timing is one of many things I would include to the meaning of the word. Instincts are another. Granlund has great offensive awareness. Because he's able to read the play with ease. That's how he's able to create a lot, even when he's never been gifted physically because Granlund is neither strong nor fast. Imagine if he didn't scan the ice well? He would´ve probably been an average Liiga player or something above that.
The thing is that compared to similar (or somewhat similar) players like Teräväinen and Aho there is not much Granlund has to his advantage, rather the opposite.
Regarding the word IQ, I would say Granlund has high IQ and that's why he manages to play in the NHL. But that doesn't necessarily have to mean that you are the best in every zone and so on. Here I want to mention a player like the Russian Marat Khusnutdinov. I could see him develop and become a important role player for a Russian national team in the future even if he's a bit small and perhaps a bit weaker. Why? Because he has shown defensive IQ and he knows how to move his quick feet.
Another young Finn I´m high on is Heinola. He's a player I wouldn't call best at anything. Above average or good passer, good deker etc. But by no means is he the strongest nor the fastest. If you saw the WJC´s you probably caught his ability to read the game, especially offensively if anything. He stood out a whole lot. He was amazing with the puck, decision after decision, calm and collected, calculated or improvised. Just seemed like he did everything with ease, like opponents would've processed the game in slow-motion compared to him. That is IQ for me, when a player knows the next step before the majority on the pitch or ice.

I could make a comparison with other team sports like football or basketball. Let's take Xavi or Deco as an example. They were great players with IQ, even if they weren't the most athletic they managed well because of their smarts and technical abilities.
But then again, If you would have given me a golden Iniesta vs a golden Xavi I would've chosen Iniesta without any hesitation. Why? Because he had many of Xavis strengths but he was able to do it a lot faster and he was gifted with more speed and his first step was a lot quicker. That made him even more unpredictable.
So, my point here is that Aho is more of a Iniesta and Granlund a Xavi. In the same way I could make the comparison with Teräväinen being similar to a slower player like Zidane. Both Xavi and Zidane were playmakers but Zidane were a lot more lethal offensively with his shot (Teräväinen).
My point is: Granlund shares the similar strengths, he makes his teammates better but so does Aho and Teräväinen. The difference is that Aho is able to "Do his man" and shoot. Able is perhaps the wrong word, well let's just say that Aho is better at that.
Therefor player likes Teräväinen and Aho become a dual threat because they don't need their mates as much as Granlund needs. Well, that's my opinion at least.

What happens if there is a OT with 4v4 for example? The less players there are on ice, the more does their individual skills matter. Things like speed, their shot etc. That is actually a good example because I wouldn't have big hopes if Granlund stepped on the ice. His weaknesses would show even more.
You are actually mentioning an important word here, limited or limitation. It's Granlunds physical limitations and lack of a great shot that makes him questionable in my books.
Kapanen comes up in my mind, not as smart as Granlund but in 4v4? I believe I would prefer Kapanen with his speed paired with other smart centers than Granlund. These are things coaches will probably consider when selecting their rosters.

I appreciate that you open up your definition of Hockey IQ. Making comparasion to elite footballers.. I don´t know. But it does help that you explain why you think the players in question have hockey IQ. Even in you post it means, bit different things in almost every player. I personally was bit baffled when you listed Laine there (in your older post).

Personally one of the players comes to my mind is Helminen in international hockey. It wasn´t just that he had offensive game reading and playmaking/puck abilities to execute it. He played extremely smart defensively. I don´t think single goal was scored in even strength against him in Lillehammer or Stockholm in 95. And not even in Salt Lake City when he was playing against the best of world when his wheels had complitely dropped off. I feel that is smartness and complete understanding of ice.

I don´t agree at all that Aho and Teräväinen excludes Granlund. Jalonen has made even some bold and strange selections to have three lines that can be offensive threats (with mix result). Currently I can´t see players challenging him in "third line" spot and in second PP. You seem to see it more as top 6 and bottom 6. And I agree with FiLe wuth versatility. He may not be the best option anymore to, but he is definitely option if there is injuries or things does not work to move up. I don´t see Armia or Kapanen having the abilities to bring that.

 

[David OSullivan]

To be fair, this debate is kind of pointless because Granlund is a 100% lock. Probably 3rd line winger.

The real debate is where he best fits.

Think he ll be good with hintz and kapanen there. If Granlund lacks speed then let's give him a double barrel of it imo.

 

[Lepardi]

I am fully aware of his value and if you look back at the 2016 world cup, he was Finland's best player imho.

If you're talking about that dumpster fire of a team, "the least bad player" might be a more accurate description. I think Granlund should be in Beijing too.

So who do you see there? Granlund's natural slot on PP is running the play from the half wall. There will be two PP units, and the only Finnish player I'd call a better fit for the role is Aho. (Barkov is more of a net front presence.) Who would you suggest over Granlund?

I think Petri Kontiola is better than Granlund on the half wall in the power play. That being said, Kontiola's love of alcohol might make his fitness level a bit of a liability in 5-on-5 play at this level, which is why I'd prefer to see Granlund on the team.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Teuvo Teräväinen - Aleksander Barkov - Mikko Rantanen
Patrik Laine - Sebastian Aho - Jesse Puljujärvi
Mikael Granlund - Roope Hintz - Joonas Donskoi
Erik Haula - Anton Lundell - Kasperi Kapanen
Jesper Kotkaniemi, Joel Armia

Esa Lindell - Miro Heiskanen
Olli Määttä - Rasmus Ristolainen
Markus Nutivaara - Jani Hakanpää
Juuso Välimäki - Henri Jokiharju

Juuse Saros
Antti Raanta
Kevin Lankinen

Lots of talk about how great the forwards and goalies are, and they are, but the D is strong aswell, not super good but its a good D-corp imo.

 

[QnebO]

Not sure what you mean. Puljujarvi is trusted in all situations in Edmonton and over the past 2 years has really solidified his position as both a great player and great teammate.

He is playing with McJesus and Draisaitl in order to produce offensive numbers. McDavid is probably the best player to ever play hockey, looking at point totals he pots up in this era of goalies ect. Pulju is not exceptional standalone player (yet), but has speed that is real asset. Laine also needs good line mates to produce, but he has real asset in his shot that the team Finland really needs.

Granlund is a lock because he is "good old granlund" and these things have heavy weight, thats how hockey works. Personally I think Joel Armia could be better player, but Granlund has played Sochi olympics and has the 2011 gold, I think he has true nationalistic lion heart, that will make him a lock in this team. We have seen many times that in hockey, getting heart to the team is the most important thing of all. You cant leave a guy like this out, he has played with Selänne and all the good guys, he brings the tradition to the team.

 

[FiLe]

Granlund is a lock because he is "good old granlund" and these things have heavy weight, thats how hockey works.

This is one of the most bizarre aspects of this entire Granlund debate - treating him as a member of the "old guard", whether you see it as a positive or a negative trait, considering that we're talking about a player who hasn't even turned 30 yet as the games begin. (He'll celebrate his 30th birthday on February 26th, about a week after the games close.)

And even though I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point, I honestly don't get all this pining after the PuLa-Aho line. Or, rather, I do get it, but I don't get how someone can logically prioritize some WJC nostalgy over four seasons of solid NHL collaboration between TT and Aho. Yeah, let's throw one of the most unique weapons we have down the drain just because five years ago we watched those kids run roughshod over far inferior opposition for two brief weeks. (Now, if Jalonen does put that line back together, I'll have a massive egg on my face and will own it, but until it happens, this is a hill I'm willing to die on.)

 

[Nate070]

This is one of the most bizarre aspects of this entire Granlund debate - treating him as a member of the "old guard", whether you see it as a positive or a negative trait, considering that we're talking about a player who hasn't even turned 30 yet as the games begin. (He'll celebrate his 30th birthday on February 26th, about a week after the games close.)

And even though I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point, I honestly don't get all this pining after the PuLa-Aho line. Or, rather, I do get it, but I don't get how someone can logically prioritize some WJC nostalgy over four seasons of solid NHL collaboration between TT and Aho. Yeah, let's throw one of the most unique weapons we have down the drain just because five years ago we watched those kids run roughshod over far inferior opposition for two brief weeks. (Now, if Jalonen does put that line back together, I'll have a massive egg on my face and will own it, but until it happens, this is a hill I'm willing to die on.)

You will only have egg on your face if he actually does and they succeed. I agree that he should go with the Carolina-duo and someone fitting on that line. I don´t think it will be Kotkaniemi but you never know

 

[FiLe]

You will only have egg on your face if he actually does and they succeed. I agree that he should go with the Carolina-duo and someone fitting on that line. I don´t think it will be Kotkaniemi but you never know

If the present Carolina line with Kotkaniemi as the third wheel stays consistently together until the new year's and keeps posting results, I don't see how Jalonen could pass up on something like that. But lineups are a volatile thing (which makes it even more important to take advantage of any consistent pairings dropped onto your lap), so it's far too early to start placing KK into this olympic team. Well, even if he doesn't stick to TT and Aho, he might still make it as the extra center - but that's far from a given, given what Lundell is presently doing.

 

[ujju2]

He is playing with McJesus and Draisaitl in order to produce offensive numbers. McDavid is probably the best player to ever play hockey, looking at point totals he pots up in this era of goalies ect. Pulju is not exceptional standalone player (yet), but has speed that is real asset. Laine also needs good line mates to produce, but he has real asset in his shot that the team Finland really needs.

Granlund is a lock because he is "good old granlund" and these things have heavy weight, thats how hockey works. Personally I think Joel Armia could be better player, but Granlund has played Sochi olympics and has the 2011 gold, I think he has true nationalistic lion heart, that will make him a lock in this team. We have seen many times that in hockey, getting heart to the team is the most important thing of all. You cant leave a guy like this out, he has played with Selänne and all the good guys, he brings the tradition to the team.

The thing people seem to miss about this new version of Puljujarvi is how good he is with his body. He's a fantastic forechecker with his size and speed, and is also good in front of the ned, etc. Plus has a great shot and passing ability, and is a very good defensive player. Puljujarvi might be the exact opposite of Laine in that Laine is a one-dimensional player while Puljujarvi is a very well-rounded player who works hard, which is why I asked what you meant.

 

[BusQuets]

Did someone really say that Armia is better hockey player than Granlund? Lmao.

 

[QnebO]

This is one of the most bizarre aspects of this entire Granlund debate - treating him as a member of the "old guard", whether you see it as a positive or a negative trait, considering that we're talking about a player who hasn't even turned 30 yet as the games begin. (He'll celebrate his 30th birthday on February 26th, about a week after the games close.)

And even though I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point, I honestly don't get all this pining after the PuLa-Aho line. Or, rather, I do get it, but I don't get how someone can logically prioritize some WJC nostalgy over four seasons of solid NHL collaboration between TT and Aho. Yeah, let's throw one of the most unique weapons we have down the drain just because five years ago we watched those kids run roughshod over far inferior opposition for two brief weeks. (Now, if Jalonen does put that line back together, I'll have a massive egg on my face and will own it, but until it happens, this is a hill I'm willing to die on.)

Id like to point out, that in the same message i said also that the other option is to keep the TT-Aho duo on. Its not like im all on in on Pula-aho. But I do consider it very possible that he tries it anyway.

 

[FiLe]

Id like to point out, that in the same message i said also that the other option is to keep the TT-Aho duo on. Its not like im all on in on Pula-aho. But I do consider it very possible that he tries it anyway.

You said it should be the first thing to try (so it doesn't blunt my criticism about where one's priorities lie), which I find highly unlikely. If stuff doesn't work and Jalonen needs to shake up the lineup, then maybe. But I also find it highly unlikely that TT and Aho would suddenly forget how to play together. So I consider the odds of seeing that line back together rather slim. But since I'm not Jalonen, I can't of course tell people it won't happen no way, no how.

 

[JabbaJabba]

Maybe try Pulju, Laine and Aho on the powerplay together? The were great offensive in the WJC but weren't amazing defensively. Teräväinen could be the 4th forward and then have Heiskanen or Ristolainen etc. as the defenceman.

 

[Kezaster]

The team will be on paper the best Finland has ever iced in an international hockey competition.

It's a huge opportunity for our head coach to show what he can do with the small ice with a world class roster, he himself seems pretty confident that he'd do well in the nhl.
On the flipside of the coin, if the team flops the hockey media in his home country will hang him and it'll be a big detriment to him going to NA

Two first line centers with four top six wingers, two for each side.
Bottom six will be filled with nhl regulars, the 3rd line will be a strong one.

Defense isn't as good but that's more of a compliment to our top 6 attack than the defense being bad.
We got top4 guys to fill our D along with a pretty clear 1D.

Goalies have always been a strong point, Saros is the starter without injuries or a bizarre horrid 4 months.
Rest of the spots don't really matter but I think we got quality guys for it too.

Hoping for the success to continue Bronze,6th,Silver,Bronze,Bronze best-on-best olympics.
Honestly for the very first time, I think we might be a top 4 team on paper for the games.