Olympics: Team Finland 2022

[HockeyWooot]

Finns yet again the dark horse team, albeit with more firepower upfront.

 

[FiLe]

I'm not completely sold on Haula though. During his Minnesota days he was more of a defensive center, but since Vegas I think his player profile has changed a bit... I haven't watched how Boston uses him and if he is indeed good in a more defensive role nowadays if Boston uses him in that way. I'd probably take Lundell over him if it's that defensive role, but Granny as defensive center might be better option than both of them.

Haula is who he is. A solid all-around player whose abilities are a good fit for the bottom-six - and the most accomplished and seasoned one we have if we want a traditional defensive center. Lundell is still a rookie - and while he's off to a good start, we'll still have to see if he can keep it up. More often than not, rookie players hit a conditioning bump at some point, because they're not fully prepared to the league's hectic schedule.

Honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves is the "Shiny New Toy" syndrome. We often tend to rank a promising young player higher than a seasoned veteran because of the former's ceiling - even if it likely takes him a season or two to reach that perceived level. Lundell is solidly on his way to being a better player than Haula ever was or will be, but he won't be the better defensive option two months from now.

On this line topic:
Kasperi Kapanen - Roope Hintz - Joonas Donskoi

I do like that line and I think that they can score and be well rounded.

Like I said, it's a good line if you want a specific thing from the third line. Which is puck possession and wearing down the opposition with speed. Perhaps some secondary scoring thrown in. And it honestly would have been more than enough to ask of our third line about a decade ago or so. But having a line like that when we finally have the depth to build a third solid scoring unit feels, I dunno, a little regressive. It's like deliberately wanting to embrace the underdog status even when one has all the pieces to build something that matches the opposition instead.

But, funnily enough, I could still see Jalonen going for a line like that.

 

[FiLe]

The defense is still not on par with Sweden, USA and Canada, not even close.

Obviously. But when has it been? I'd still say the gap is narrower when compared to the past - and could be nonexistent as long as all our players buy into the system.

 

[illone84]

Haula is who he is. A solid all-around player whose abilities are a good fit for the bottom-six - and the most accomplished and seasoned one we have if we want a traditional defensive center. Lundell is still a rookie - and while he's off to a good start, we'll still have to see if he can keep it up. More often than not, rookie players hit a conditioning bump at some point, because they're not fully prepared to the league's hectic schedule.

Honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves is the "Shiny New Toy" syndrome. We often tend to rank a promising young player higher than a seasoned veteran because of the former's ceiling - even if it likely takes him a season or two to reach that perceived level. Lundell is solidly on his way to being a better player than Haula ever was or will be, but he won't be the better defensive option two months from now.

Like I said, it's a good line if you want a specific thing from the third line. Which is puck possession and wearing down the opposition with speed. Perhaps some secondary scoring thrown in. And it honestly would have been more than enough to ask of our third line about a decade ago or so. But having a line like that when we finally have the depth to build a third solid scoring unit feels, I dunno, a little regressive. It's like deliberately wanting to embrace the underdog status even when one has all the pieces to build something that matches the opposition instead.

But, funnily enough, I could still see Jalonen going for a line like that.

I get what you are saying about the shiny new toy syndrome, but we'll see if Haula makes it over Lundell. The guy is a winner as we all know. He just excels in every level of competition he is faced with. I reckon Lundell makes the team as the 4th line center, and Haula could be an extra forward along with one or two of Lehkonen/Kotkaniemi/Donskoi, etc. But I just find it hard to believe that Lundell doesn't make this team, especially if he keeps progressing and putting up points in the NHL. I mean Joel Quenneville is picking Lundell over Barkov to defend a lead in the last 2 mins of NHL games, that is a testament to the trust that professionals have in the kid.

 

[FiLe]

I get what you are saying about the shiny new toy syndrome, but we'll see if Haula makes it over Lundell. The guy is a winner as we all know.

If Lundell still does what does right now two months in the future, he makes this team, no question. But that two months is ample time to hit a speed bump or two. Seen it happen to young players more times than I can count. That's why I'm not so high on him - yet - as many other posters here.

We have a darn good player in him to cheer along for years to come. But a little patience never hurt anyone.

 

[illone84]

If Lundell still does what does right now two months in the future, he makes this team, no question. But that two months is ample time to hit a speed bump or two. Seen it happen to young players more times than I can count. That's why I'm not so high on him - yet - as many other posters here.

We have a darn good player in him to cheer along for years to come. But a little patience never hurt anyone.

Agreed, but Lundell's case is pretty unique. U18 gold, U20 gold and bronze, and inches away from gold in the skoda cup. I believe that Jalonen picking him earlier this year to play in Riga was multidimensional, and not limited to him being a solid player available for the 2021 WHC in Latvia. I think he was additionally testing the waters and planting seeds in case NHlers would participate in Beijing, and furthermore, to see what kind of player could potentially be available for the tournie on home ice in 2022. Jalonen was familiarizing himself with Lundell, and Anton exceeded all expectations. Finally, in conclusion, it's obvious his NHL sample size is extremely limited, but his national team resume is as unique as they come. Let's just hope he doesn't suddenly disappear and get sent down to the AHL (very unlikely-my prediction is he is ends up being a candidate for the calder, and has around 30 nhl pts by the time the olympics start with a f/o average of over 50%).

 

[FiLe]

I believe that Jalonen picking him earlier this year to play in Riga was multidimensional, and not limited to him being a solid player available for the 2021 WHC in Latvia.

Jalonen actually criticized Lundell's two-way play as the tournament was underway, expressing explicit doubt for his abilities to handle the more mature requirements playing center requires. Sure, he ended up playing center anyway because the pros far outweighed the cons in the end - and it wasn't like there were better options instantly at hand.

If Jalonen saw defensive lapses in Lundell's game less than six months from now, he might not be as dazzled by his past pedigree as you suggest. What will matter the most is his performance in the next few weeks. So I'll be holding my horses 'til we have a better NHL sample size - but I'll say already that Lundell does appear better poised than most to beat them odds.

 

[illone84]

Jalonen actually criticized Lundell's two-way play as the tournament was underway, expressing explicit doubt for his abilities to handle the more mature requirements playing center requires. Sure, he ended up playing center anyway because the pros far outweighed the cons in the end - and it wasn't like there were better options instantly at hand.

If Jalonen saw defensive lapses in Lundell's game less than six months from now, he might not be as dazzled by his past pedigree as you suggest. What will matter the most is his performance in the next few weeks. So I'll be holding my horses 'til we have a better NHL sample size - but I'll say already that Lundell does appear better poised than most to beat them odds.

You are grasping at straws with that article, for a round-robin game that he ended up setting up the winner for, anyways. I doubt he would have played Lundell more than Kontiola in the final against Canada if he still felt the same way he did after the Germany game on May 29. Let's see what happens with Lundell, but I reckon he stays up with the big boys in the NHL and continues to progress.

 

[FiLe]

You are grasping at straws with that article

It wasn't meant as commentary regarding Lundell's current performance, but a reminder of the mindset pro coaches sometimes hold. They see things we mortals do not.

Let's see what happens with Lundell, but I reckon he stays up with the big boys in the NHL and continues to progress.

I don't see him being sent to the minors or back to Europe. But we'll still need a greater NHL sample from him before saying he should make the olympic lineup over some of the more seasoned options.

 

[illone84]

It wasn't meant as commentary regarding Lundell's current performance, but a reminder of the mindset pro coaches sometimes hold. They see things we mortals do not.

I don't see him being sent to the minors or back to Europe. But we'll still need a greater NHL sample from him before saying he should make the olympic lineup over some of the more seasoned options.

That is true. For the ones maybe overzealous about Lundell such as myself. A reminder, that there is always a chance that he starts to flutter and Joel Q starts to feel ambivalent or mixed feelings towards his progression which would change things for Jalonen. Either way, personally, I just have a good feeling about him so I am crossing my fingers. Hope to see him playing in Beijing for the blue machine!

 

[Sanf]

Eight years ago, before Sochi, we had exactly four names clocking minutes in the league: aging Timonen and Salo, plus up-and-coming Vatanen and Määttä. Would you prefer that to the present situation? And even in the best of days we've usually had around 5-6 career NHL d-men.

Yep in recent past situation haven´t been great either and you could say it is bit better now. Ofcourse in short tournament it isn´t the end of the world. I do think we had stronger core in 98, 02. and 06.

In Nagano we had 5 NHL regulars + Timonen. But then NHL was 26 team league.

In Salt Lake City we had three Ds leading their teams in ice time in NHL (Timonen, Niinimaa, Numminen). Karalahti was in rehab? Toni Lydman (second in ice time in Flames) did not fit to the team and NHL reserve had veterans like Laukkanen. And that is the only time we did not medal in these best vs. best olympics.

In Torino Pitkänen and Väänänen missed from the original selection and Salo got injured during tournament, but still the euro replacements were quality enough.

 

[Sanf]

Haula is who he is. A solid all-around player whose abilities are a good fit for the bottom-six - and the most accomplished and seasoned one we have if we want a traditional defensive center. Lundell is still a rookie - and while he's off to a good start, we'll still have to see if he can keep it up. More often than not, rookie players hit a conditioning bump at some point, because they're not fully prepared to the league's hectic schedule.

Honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves is the "Shiny New Toy" syndrome. We often tend to rank a promising young player higher than a seasoned veteran because of the former's ceiling - even if it likely takes him a season or two to reach that perceived level. Lundell is solidly on his way to being a better player than Haula ever was or will be, but he won't be the better defensive option two months from now.

And here is where i agree 100%. Even more annoying is that if the player does not pan out (to ones expectations) he quickly becomes "Yksinäinen peltirumpu". People evaluate emotionally the current and past prospects and use strong confirmation bias to find the success of current prospects and failures of the past prospects.

Only watched one NHL game from Lundell and in that he looked like veteran. But yeah not a fan of "opinions after five games" either. Selections are made so much before the tournament so in less optimistic view he may keep this up until then, but hit the bump after that. But nevertheless very impressive start from Lundell.

edit. Damn I can´t remember Peltirumpu lyrics

 

[Mestaruus]

Honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves is the "Shiny New Toy" syndrome. We often tend to rank a promising young player higher than a seasoned veteran because of the former's ceiling - even if it likely takes him a season or two to reach that perceived level. Lundell is solidly on his way to being a better player than Haula ever was or will be, but he won't be the better defensive option two months from now.

Well having Lundell or Haula is not that big of a difference I guess. That's why my number one choice would be to put Granny to center and Haula and Lundell both out maybe.

Another shiny new toy is actually Puljujärvi. I'm not fully a believer that he is opening day roster worthy, because he plays with the world's best player, McJesus. He could be a moving part, but I did put him in my starting roster but I'm just not sure about him and I think that no one can be until we see him in action with Aho and TT. I'm hoping all good for Pulju and hoping that it works out but I predict that perhaps he starts in the active line up and drops out of it and gets replaced by someone.

On paper it does sound good to have Pulju with Aho and Teräväinen if Pulju really has learned that new role of his so well as many people think and say. I'm doubtful about that though. Hopefully it's not just McDavid carrying him and making him look like a star. I mean if TT-Aho-Pulju doesn't click, first thing Jalonen won't do is to break the Carolina duo TT & Aho, it will be Pulju. That might mean Pulju will be sent out of the active roster completely as we have other good options as well. Competition is tough for those last forward spots.

 

[Mestaruus]

I get what you are saying about the shiny new toy syndrome, but we'll see if Haula makes it over Lundell. The guy is a winner as we all know. He just excels in every level of competition he is faced with. I reckon Lundell makes the team as the 4th line center, and Haula could be an extra forward along with one or two of Lehkonen/Kotkaniemi/Donskoi, etc. But I just find it hard to believe that Lundell doesn't make this team, especially if he keeps progressing and putting up points in the NHL. I mean Joel Quenneville is picking Lundell over Barkov to defend a lead in the last 2 mins of NHL games, that is a testament to the trust that professionals have in the kid.

I agree what you are saying about Lundell, but I'll just say that Quenneville did give a lot of chances for Jokiharju as well in Chicago to play with Duncan Keith. When Quenneville got fired it got a lot harder for Jokiharju with the new coach. Quenneville is a coach that makes bold things like that so it's not the best example to say that Lundell is anywhere close to Barkov's level when it comes to defense yet. Lundell will probably get there though. I think he is not the next Barkov but a prime Mikko Koivu is a better stylistical comparison in my opinion in many ways and Lundell might even exceed that. However that leadership of Koivu is hard to beat by almost anyone. Also don't get me wrong here, he isn't prime Mikko Koivu yet, but all the signs point in the direction that he might be.

 

[illone84]

I agree what you are saying about Lundell, but I'll just say that Quenneville did give a lot of chances for Jokiharju as well in Chicago to play with Duncan Keith. When Quenneville got fired it got a lot harder for Jokiharju with the new coach. Quenneville is a coach that makes bold things like that so it's not the best example to say that Lundell is anywhere close to Barkov's level when it comes to defense yet. Lundell will probably get there though. I think he is not the next Barkov but a prime Mikko Koivu is a better stylistical comparison in my opinion in many ways and Lundell might even exceed that. However that leadership of Koivu is hard to beat by almost anyone. Also don't get me wrong here, he isn't prime Mikko Koivu yet, but all the signs point in the direction that he might be.

True. Very good points. Let's hope for Lundell's sake that Joey Q stays in Florida! So far so good! Florida looking like the team to beat! Going back to the leadership group, maybe I am being too pedantic and harsh but I feel like Barkov nor Granlund have anywhere close to the leaderships qualities that Mikko (and Saku) have. I might be a out to lunch but I feel that Rantanen is a better and more vocal leader.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

At the moment I would go with these forwards:

Teräväinen - Aho - Puljujärvi
Laine - Barkov - Rantanen
Granlund - Lundell - Kapanen
Donskoi - Hintz - Armia
Tolvanen, Haula

Absolute locks for me are the first three lines and Hintz. Hard not to choose Donskoi either and Armia is a great PK player. Kakko looked great during the pre-season and I could see him dropping Tolvanen if he plays half-way decent, because Tolvanen hasn't exactly blown me away. I'm not a big fan of Haula, but I think he would be fine as a 4C if there are injuries. Luostarinen or Lammikko could challenge Haula as well.

As for the D, this what I would choose at the moment:
Lindell - Heiskanen
Määttä - Ristolainen
Lehtonen - Hakanpää
Välimäki - Jokiharju

Niku, Nutivaara and Juolevi could still rise.

 

[mattihp]

At the moment I would go with these forwards:

Teräväinen - Aho - Puljujärvi
Laine - Barkov - Rantanen
Granlund - Lundell - Kapanen
Donskoi - Hintz - Armia
Tolvanen, Haula

Absolute locks for me are the first three lines and Hintz. Hard not to choose Donskoi either and Armia is a great PK player. Kakko looked great during the pre-season and I could see him dropping Tolvanen if he plays half-way decent, because Tolvanen hasn't exactly blown me away. I'm not a big fan of Haula, but I think he would be fine as a 4C if there are injuries. Luostarinen or Lammikko could challenge Haula as well.

As for the D, this what I would choose at the moment:
Lindell - Heiskanen
Määttä - Ristolainen
Lehtonen - Hakanpää
Välimäki - Jokiharju

Niku, Nutivaara and Juolevi could still rise.

Kapanen a lock? He hasn't impressed enough to be a lock, I am not against him being there, but there might be players who are better needed on this team. There is not much sandpaper there on forward. Ristolainen on D will 99% not come.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

Kapanen a lock? He hasn't impressed enough to be a lock, I am not against him being there, but there might be players who are better needed on this team. There is not much sandpaper there on forward. Ristolainen on D will 99% not come.

I don't know who I'd choose instead of Kapanen. Perhaps Kakko if he plays well. The D is always a bit of a mystery for me and I wouldn't miss Ristolainen one bit. In fact I think I would very much prefer Vatanen.

 

[mattihp]

I don't know who I'd choose instead of Kapanen. Perhaps Kakko if he plays well. The D is always a bit of a mystery for me and I wouldn't miss Ristolainen one bit. In fact I think I would very much prefer Vatanen.

Kotkaniemi or Lehkonen might be needed for balance.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

Kotkaniemi or Lehkonen might be needed for balance.

Lehkonen perhaps because of PK ability, but I don't see how Kotkaniemi would make the team more balanced.

 

[mattihp]

Lehkonen perhaps because of PK ability, but I don't see how Kotkaniemi would make the team more balanced.

Aggressivity is quite important in JJ's system. Forecheckers play heavy minutes.

Otherwise we will see Björninen - Anttila with an NHLer on their left side

Lehkonen - Björninen - Anttila
Laine - Barkov - Puljujärvi
Teräväinen - Aho - Rantanen
Hintz - Lundell - Granlund

 

[HockeyHistorian]

I'd love to see Björninen and Anttila on the team - if only we could have five lines.

 

[NotCommitted]

Another shiny new toy is actually Puljujärvi. I'm not fully a believer that he is opening day roster worthy, because he plays with the world's best player, McJesus. He could be a moving part, but I did put him in my starting roster but I'm just not sure about him and I think that no one can be until we see him in action with Aho and TT. I'm hoping all good for Pulju and hoping that it works out but I predict that perhaps he starts in the active line up and drops out of it and gets replaced by someone.

I see him as a lock basically, already based on his play last season, even though his production wasn't great. He plays well enough both ways. You could put him with Barkov & Rantanen to play best-on-best, leaving Laine-Aho-TT to take advantage of slightly easier match ups. Or if you switch Laine & Pulju, he could bring some size to the 2nd line. He's also a good netfront presence and the way he plays the game, he wouldn't be lost in the bottom lines either. Best case, he shows everyone he is a legit 1st liner / top-6 forward with the production to go with it. Also both Barkov and Aho have shown they usually bring out the best of their linemates, which is good news for both Laine & Puljujärvi and most importantly Team Finland, there never was such a strong #1 & #2 center punch in the national team.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

I see him as a lock basically, already based on his play last season, even though his production wasn't great. He plays well enough both ways. You could put him with Barkov & Rantanen to play best-on-best, leaving Laine-Aho-TT to take advantage of slightly easier match ups. Or if you switch Laine & Pulju, he could bring some size to the 2nd line. He's also a good netfront presence and the way he plays the game, he wouldn't be lost in the bottom lines either. Best case, he shows everyone he is a legit 1st liner / top-6 forward with the production to go with it. Also both Barkov and Aho have shown they usually bring out the best of their linemates, which is good news for both Laine & Puljujärvi and most importantly Team Finland, there never was such a strong #1 & #2 center punch in the national team.

I agree. I'm a huge Pulju fan (as anyone can see if they look at my message history), but I think his play speaks for itself. He is a tremendous forechecker, hard worker both ways, has more skill than people credit him for and he is a winner and a real competitor. Not to mention the intangibles he brings, by which I mean his joy of playing. It's highly infectious.

 

[FiLe]

Another shiny new toy is actually Puljujärvi. I'm not fully a believer that he is opening day roster worthy, because he plays with the world's best player, McJesus. He could be a moving part, but I did put him in my starting roster but I'm just not sure about him and I think that no one can be until we see him in action with Aho and TT. I'm hoping all good for Pulju and hoping that it works out but I predict that perhaps he starts in the active line up and drops out of it and gets replaced by someone.

In Pulju's case we're already starting to have a decent sample size, though. 60-something games as the wingman to the best player in the world indicates that he's doing at least something right. And even if the sample size of his present monster form isn't much larger than Lundell's dazzling rookie start (seriously, guys, it's freakin' five[5!] games), even a slight regression to the level he was last year would still make him an asset.

Let's hope for Lundell's sake that Joey Q stays in Florida!

Well, this wish aged like milk. Though I must say, I don't see Q's resignation having any immediate effect on Lundell's TOI when he gets back into the rink.