I am pretty sure Lundell is in if he keeps this up. He´s looking damn good out there. Also killing penalties and getting better at faceoffs.
Olympics: Team Finland 2022
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Agreed. Makes the C lineup look real good, and the oldest one of them is 26 years old
Barkov
Aho
Hintz
Lundell
I prefer him over Haula as the 4th line center. Looking good killing penalties, very strong on faceoffs and just much more skilled of a player than Haula will ever be. Hope to see Barkov, Aho, Hintz, Lundell as our 4 centres.
Only thing Lundell has over Haula as of right now is offensive skill. Haula is the better two-way guy, has more experience and his career average on the dot is around 55% (which is better than Lundell's - even if take his Liiga seasons into account to get a decent sample). In other words, if one wants to go all-in on offense, Lundell could be the preferred option. But if we are to look at the qualities required from a more traditional 4C, Haula as of time being beats Lundell on all relevant metrics. It is more than likely though that Lundell will end up being far superior player a few years down the line - but let's not go all nuts about the shiny new toy just yet.
Since the roster limit is 22+3, at least five players primarily roled as centers will make this team. Barkov, Aho and Hintz are no-brainers if healthy, and then there will be the fourth line guy plus one spare. I still have Haula as the primary option for 4C, but if Lundell keeps up his great start, I can see him beating Kotkaniemi for the extra center.
I have to say, though, I see Haula having advantage over Lundell for the 4C job only. If any of the designated top-9 centers are sidelined for some reason, then Lundell might just be the preferred replacement, at least out of those two.
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I agree with this. Haula edging it for me right now but I think it will be more of a battle than I initially thought.
I gave my team before last night's game and had lundell and Kakko as the extras. These 2 I see having a chance to make the team but experience and maturity count in my book and I suspect the coach's too.
I'm not complaining about having some top talent competition that's for sure. Really interesting few months ahead
I´m curious of peoples opinion of captaincy and otherwise leadership of this team. Only in the last Marjamäki team the new generation had captaincy roles (C Granlund, A Aho, A Rantanen).
I guess Barkov would be the best guess. I guess bit of Helminen esque captain. Otherwise maybe Rantanen who I feel is the closest of that Koivu type of leadership. Finnish team has had usually multiple leadertype of players in the team. None of the players who are strongest candidates have never had any big team success (well maybe U20). Team does not feel to be full of type of strong leader personalities.
So who are the C and A´s of this team and who are the other "Lasse Kukkonen" type of leaders?
I guess Barkov would be the best guess. I guess bit of Helminen esque captain. Otherwise maybe Rantanen who I feel is the closest of that Koivu type of leadership. Finnish team has had usually multiple leadertype of players in the team. None of the players who are strongest candidates have never had any big team success (well maybe U20). Team does not feel to be full of type of strong leader personalities.
So who are the C and A´s of this team and who are the other "Lasse Kukkonen" type of leaders?
I have a hard time seeing the C going to someone else than Barkov or Granlund. The remaining A is a toss-up between Rantanen and Aho.
But if we are to think outside the box a little, and perhaps take a look at the defense since the four aforementioned names are all forwards, then I must bring up Lindell. He's got a bit of that Lasse Kukkonen or perhaps Kimmo Timonen thing going on.
But if we are to think outside the box a little, and perhaps take a look at the defense since the four aforementioned names are all forwards, then I must bring up Lindell. He's got a bit of that Lasse Kukkonen or perhaps Kimmo Timonen thing going on.
Personally, I don't like Barkov nor Granlund as captains. Neither have achieved much as captains in international tournies and are too mute for my liking. I would give the C to Rantanen, and Assistant captaincy to Aho and Barkov, or Barkov and Lindell.
There's actually a very natural explanation for this. First, Granlund has only carried the C twice - in the 2012 WJC and the 2018 WC. And Barkov has an even better excuse. Of course, I dunno how you see it, but I'd say it's pretty hard to achieve anything as captain in the NT if you've never been captain in the NT.
Yeah. I mixed up Barkov with Juicy J. Either way, I don't like the way Barkov captains the team in Florida. Too silent for me. Granny let the pressure get to him in 2012, and team FIN seemed to be overwhelmed by the Swiss in 18, and couldn't find an answer with his leadership. Rantanen is the best choice in my opinion.
Will see who is right but you know no more than I do. I don't believe Barkov nor Granny will be wearing the C for team Fin.
I won't challenge that belief. All I was saying is that it's hard to blame Barkov or Granlund not achieving much as NT captains because they haven't had all that many shots at it. If you don't think they're fit for the captaincy otherwise, I won't challenge that opinion.
And I will 100% trust Jalonen in handing out the letters to the right people, whatever he decides. We have at least five qualified candidates, maybe even more.
Couldn't agree with you more. Jalonen is the man and will make the right moves, we are all convinced of it. Looking forward to it!!!
I don't understand these kind of arguments. How do you know how vocal Barkov is with teammates? We see very little publicly of how a captain acts.
Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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I would choose Teräväinen as captain with Hintz and Rantanen wearing the A´s. I do believe Teuvo could be underrated for a role as captain. He's a team player and perhaps he could benefit from getting the confidence from the management, who knows.. Together with Saros he won the WJC´s and his performance was nothing but outstanding. He has won the Stanley Cup with the Blackhawks as well. He's a bit more experienced than both Barkov and Aho in that way.
I feel like Aho and Barkov will be good no matter what, that's why I would be open for something "Different". Also, I see Rantanen, Teräväinen and Hintz playing in different lines if that even matters. Hintz could probably grow after getting that trust and playing as a third (or perhaps even fourth) line center. Nothing surprises me with Jalonen. Rantanen then? I don't think I want him to have all the pressure as a C, don't know. A lot of Finnish fans probably rate him as the best player we have...
Among the D´s I could perhaps see Lindell getting "A" but I´m not sure.
But I could agree on Granlund. Even if he's older I just don't see him as captain material, neither does he has the physical attributes, talent nor the personality. Not all good players are good captains and yes, Granlund is a good player.
I remember the WJC´s against Sweden quite well. Even if Aittokallio didn't help us I always thought that roster lacked leadership if anything because they had som decent talent in Armia, brothers Granlund, Pulkkinen, Barkov,Ristolainen, Hakanpää, Määttä (one game) etc. Not the deepest of rosters but still.
What about this?
Laine-Barkov-Rantanen (A)
Teräväinen (C)- Aho-Kakko(has to earn it and show what he's all about but I both hope and believe)
Donskoi-Lundell-Armia
Kapanen-Hintz (A)-Puljujärvi (that could be a nasty fourth line like Jalonen likes it)
Granlund (could be better than Donskoi perhaps, but I just don't think he has the intensity and I do believe there are more skilled smallish players in Teräväinen, Aho and a faster Kapanen filling his role). Kotkaniemi, Kuokkanen, Tolvanen, Kiviranta, Haula, etc... Who knows if players like Ranta, Tolvanen or Kuokkanen breaks out this year.
Regarding Lundell? Don´t know yet but I do love that kid and what he brings to the table. He's so darn collected, smart and has that mental edge without being the best skater. If he can take big steps this fall? Why not.
Boy is it hard to neglect Granlund, but is he really a top6 in Finland nowadays? Because I do prefer Armia, Kapanen and Puljujärvi before him as lower line wingers.
I feel like Aho and Barkov will be good no matter what, that's why I would be open for something "Different". Also, I see Rantanen, Teräväinen and Hintz playing in different lines if that even matters. Hintz could probably grow after getting that trust and playing as a third (or perhaps even fourth) line center. Nothing surprises me with Jalonen. Rantanen then? I don't think I want him to have all the pressure as a C, don't know. A lot of Finnish fans probably rate him as the best player we have...
Among the D´s I could perhaps see Lindell getting "A" but I´m not sure.
But I could agree on Granlund. Even if he's older I just don't see him as captain material, neither does he has the physical attributes, talent nor the personality. Not all good players are good captains and yes, Granlund is a good player.
I remember the WJC´s against Sweden quite well. Even if Aittokallio didn't help us I always thought that roster lacked leadership if anything because they had som decent talent in Armia, brothers Granlund, Pulkkinen, Barkov,Ristolainen, Hakanpää, Määttä (one game) etc. Not the deepest of rosters but still.
What about this?
Laine-Barkov-Rantanen (A)
Teräväinen (C)- Aho-Kakko(has to earn it and show what he's all about but I both hope and believe)
Donskoi-Lundell-Armia
Kapanen-Hintz (A)-Puljujärvi (that could be a nasty fourth line like Jalonen likes it)
Granlund (could be better than Donskoi perhaps, but I just don't think he has the intensity and I do believe there are more skilled smallish players in Teräväinen, Aho and a faster Kapanen filling his role). Kotkaniemi, Kuokkanen, Tolvanen, Kiviranta, Haula, etc... Who knows if players like Ranta, Tolvanen or Kuokkanen breaks out this year.
Regarding Lundell? Don´t know yet but I do love that kid and what he brings to the table. He's so darn collected, smart and has that mental edge without being the best skater. If he can take big steps this fall? Why not.
Boy is it hard to neglect Granlund, but is he really a top6 in Finland nowadays? Because I do prefer Armia, Kapanen and Puljujärvi before him as lower line wingers.
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Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Interesting. I thought team selections were based on current level just as much as old merits. Meritocracy... I´m a fan of Granlund but his two latest seasons has been underwhelming no matter how yo twist and turn things.
I don´t see him as a lower line forward but I could be wrong. I do think he needs to prove himself this year to be called a safe option.
I´ve always loved Granlunds talent and IQ but on the fastest and highest level? I don't have room for nostalgia. I prefer Puljujärvi, Kapanen, Rantanen, Teräväinen and probably Hintz( if he plays winger) and Kakko as well. A factor is that we have a lot of good and creative centers in Aho, Barkov, Hintz and Lundell. Teräväinen reminds me of Granlund and I would say that he's a safer bet in every way. That's why I question Granlunds role in a team.
Jalonen likes to build well balanced teams. I just can't see Granlund be a safe bet on the PP. On the BP then? No thank you, never. There are better players for that in Kapanen, Armia, Lundell etc.
I just don´t buy those simple arguments. He won a gold 2011 and these last two years he has been somewhat meh... And therefor he should be a safe bet in the roster? Just like picking Mikko Koivu instead of others if he would´ve played today. That's nothing but utter BS. The funny thing here is, Koivu was at least known for his character and leadership. Granlund does not share similar qualities or characteristics.
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Granlund's production over the last couple of seasons is at least on par with the bolded ones. So if he's been "underwhelming", where's your criticism for these three?
So who do you see there? Granlund's natural slot on PP is running the play from the half wall. There will be two PP units, and the only Finnish player I'd call a better fit for the role is Aho. (Barkov is more of a net front presence.) Who would you suggest over Granlund? If you say Lundell, I'm going to stop giving you the time of my day right there. Yes, his start in the league has been nothing short of impressive, but he's still got miles to go to overtake Granlund on merit.
Granlund's played a fair bit of PK in the best league of the world, and has not been half bad at it. Now, Kapanen and especially Armia (whom we could call a specialist these days) have done it even more - but Lundell? Yes, he's gotten some surprising PK duty in the three games he's played for the Panthers, but that's also more or less his entire career PK experience.
Your arguments leak like a sieve, and you're obviously playing favorites. The reason Granlund will make this team (apart from never being a failure on NT duty, which does matter) is his versatility - can play center, can play wing, is solid on PP, is adequate on PK. In other words, he's the kind of player you initially place into the third line and who then move around the lineup if there's a need for an emergency replacement.
Svedu
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2019
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Well hello again, I seem to provoke you quite a bit? Arguments leak like a sieve? Please, calm down wiseacre. You're always bashing my comments, bit butt hurt? Jokes aside, I enjoy that because I do think you offer some interesting but weak arguments.
First of all, they've been younger and their progress has been pointing upwards, at least more than Granlunds. Granlund is born 92, so if he doesn't offer a big upset this season we know what we get in him because he's already heading towards 30.
Kapanen is born 96 and the guy can skate circles around Granlund. He's shown to be a weapon in BP, further questions?
Armia is only one year younger but he's a lot stronger in the corners, just as good as Granlund with his stick but perhaps not the same level of IQ. Again, he's a proven player when it comes to killing penalties and yes, I would choose him for this role before Granlund without hesitating.
Lundell then? That was my last option but still, are you claiming that Granlund would take the role as a center in BP? Are you kidding me? Forget about it. That is probably not even up for debate. When it comes to the winger position it is clear that Granlund shouldn't be the first, nor the second option for the penalty kill. But yeah, keep on convincing yourself that bud.
PP then, well... Let's just say that Teräväinen goes before Granlund without blinking. Better shot, just as good of a playmaker if not even better.
Puljujärvi is bigger and stronger in front of the net. Aho, Tolvanen, Laine, Rantanen and probably both Hintz and Barkov have better shots than Granlund. Oh, and I forgot Lundell, I would consider him as a better finisher with some killer instincts to his game, more so than Granlund.
I´m still a bit insecure when it comes to Kakko. He's injured and has a bit to prove this season. But the strength he offers around the corners and his size in front of the net is more appealing to me.
Regarding your comment about Granlund being the only option with Aho? I´m pretty sure and confident that Teräväinen could handle that role as well and on top of that offer us better finishing. Of course, your next argument will be that Teuvo and Aho will play on the same line (because you think you know it all)... Well, let's just say I´m quite convinced we have enough talent and IQ in Hintz, Lundell, Teräväinen, Rantanen, Barkov, Aho, Laine etc to manage
Heck, why don't we even throw Puljujärvi with his size in the mix.The thing here is, I prefer players who can offer us a dual threat. Granlund will only seek for passes and the opponents will have an easier time reading the play. But if you have these other named players above you get a unit where everyone is good at finishing or can offer us some size in front of the net.
Last but not least, let's not forget about players like Kuokkanen for the fourth line either. That guy seems to have quite the IQ and he seems to be pretty well rounded.
What about 5v5 then? Where should Granlund take a spot? I can only see him in the third or perhaps second line. Even if I don't think he's top6 right now but that can always change. For the third? Like in what way would he offer us more than other wingers? Skating? Defensive awareness? Scoring? Tell me.
So, anymore of your questions regarding anything? The difference between us? I understand that we can agree to disagree. I´m answering your questions and the only thing you are giving back is that Granlund can run the play in the second unit? I think you underestimate the talent and skill when it comes to other Finnish players. That's fine, but don't try to fool others that your opinion would be consensus.
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*Yawn*. I guess all I'll say is that I'm glad you're not in charge of picking this team, let alone coaching it.
For the record, I'm also glad we have a man far more competent than yours truly.
I already gave you versatility - the ability to play in any position in the forward lineup at least adequately. I'm guessing you had nothing to say to that so you conveniently decided to ignore it.
Luckily though, Granlund isn't being left out of this team if he's healthy (and he'll be given a spot in one of the PP units as well), so I don't have to trouble my head with your opinions about him - which you're of course fully entitled to.
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Honestly, I have always been a huge fan of Granny, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was left off the team indeed. Remember Jussi Jokinen in 2010 Vancity? I mean the guy was pretty freaking versatile as well, but no go. Granny if you ask me is a player of the past and we have the talent to leave him off the team. He doesn't belong in our best on best top 6 and while he could do well on a third line, he wouldn't be as useful on the fourth line as other players would be. Let's see what Jalonen and co decide.
Yeah Jussi Jokinen came to my mind, but I don´t feel that you can compare Granlund. Jokinen as best was complimentary player in line with better players. I did understand what Jalonen did when dropping him even though i might not agree. Granlund can even "drive" a line. He has the playmaking and offensive abilities to play in top three lines and in PP.
And age should not matter. This is not a tournament where you drive in players who might (or might not) be progressing upwards. We haven´t had this kind of tournament in 8 years and who knows when the next will be. What would be the purpose to drive in players here. That thay maybe, possibly, hopefully someday they represent Finland in WHC? Or to help their NHL career and current employer?
Hockey IQ is a really trendy word, but often I do not understand on what purposes it is used. People talk about extremely high IQ players and then at the same time mention that they may be lackind defensively. Reading game defensively, ice awareness, positioning as weakness with high hockey IQ? Those are "hockey iq" parts that can be teached even to overall quite limited players.
@Svedu Can you explain what you mean with the high IQ with your listed players compared to Granlund?
And age should not matter. This is not a tournament where you drive in players who might (or might not) be progressing upwards. We haven´t had this kind of tournament in 8 years and who knows when the next will be. What would be the purpose to drive in players here. That thay maybe, possibly, hopefully someday they represent Finland in WHC? Or to help their NHL career and current employer?
Hockey IQ is a really trendy word, but often I do not understand on what purposes it is used. People talk about extremely high IQ players and then at the same time mention that they may be lackind defensively. Reading game defensively, ice awareness, positioning as weakness with high hockey IQ? Those are "hockey iq" parts that can be teached even to overall quite limited players.
@Svedu Can you explain what you mean with the high IQ with your listed players compared to Granlund?
The commenter I responded to asked about Granlund's on-ice value (even though it was an answer I already provided), but let's not kid ourselves here - the biggest reason he will make this team is his off-ice value and past pedigree.
The big difference between the 2010 team and the 2022 one is that the former didn't exactly lack players who had been around the NT block a few times - it was more or less the last hurrah of the generation that had shouldered our hopes for the last 15 years.
While it won't be the first tango to most of our leading players, most of them having dressed for at least one major tournament in the past, the pickings of those who have seen it all will be rather sparse. And its hard to find a coach who doesn't value players like that at all. Especially if said player is far from being dead weight - I mean, what mostly gets me is that people here are talking about Granlund here as if he was some kind of has-been rather than among the three most important forwards of his NHL club. We might nowadays have players who do X or Y better than him, but as a whole Granlund is still a unique package that will add a plenty of value into this team.
To my experience, it's one of those words people who think they're smarter than they are throw around because they think it's making them look smart. In other words, it's in the same category as "delayed start", which a certain self-proclaimed analyst is fond of.
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