Olympics: Team Finland 2022

[lawrence]

The story you quote omits the medical explanation Dr. Valtonen gave for their questioning the Chinese authorities' decision, something I've tried to explain to you - twice. But for some reason, it's not getting through. Once again, it depends on the testing methods - the difference in those may literally return the same sample as either positive or negative.

Coach Jalonen went way overboard, though, when he called it a human rights violation. They should have stuck to the medical reasoning - which is still the main point they were raising.

and to be honest this will be the first I've heard about the doctors explanation, as you can see, the cherry picked article from CBC was trying to taint a different story, and of course I"m confused why am accused for disrespecting a doctor. I am certain nobody wants to be in quarantine. I'm glad he's ok now.

 

[FiLe]

and to be honest this will be the first I've heard about the doctors explanation, as you can see, the cherry picked article from CBC was trying to taint a different story

Well, even the CBC article kind of features the medical explanation: they have a quote from the doctor stating that they don't consider the player infectious - and I'm going to give 'em a pass for omitting the full explanation it as it is kind of technical. Furthermore, the bit from the doctor they did include kind of drowns out under the juicy soundbite about human rights violations provided by the coach. He may have shot himself in the foot with that one - although, I'm not certain if the doctor alone would have broken any headlines at all.

 

[Eye of Ra]

how come Ohtamaa never got a chance in NA?

 

[mattihp]

how come Ohtamaa never got a chance in NA?

No Idea. I have a vague recollection of him having a tryout in 2015 or 2016, but I might be mistaken.

 

[karhukissa]

It's a same trend with all our national teams, since they are playing with same system "meidän peli", we often struggle at the beginning of the games. Like today, in the first period Slovakia played like their lives depended on it, super aggressive press and just mayhem.

Don't be surprised if same happens with Latvia and maybe with Sweden too. Finland just plays and trusts to their own system and they'll do it like a machine. So even though it might look like damn, this is going to be a long game for us after 10 mins, don't get fooled by it.

Once that machine get's going, it'll look effortless. Slovakia, Latvia and these countries have no other choice than to just press like crazy and try to break that system. They are not playing their "own game" since it won't be enough against us. Good start to this tournament.

Our 1st line is probably the best in this tournament, it's important that they got a really good start. They've played 2 seasons together as a line for Ufa and you could really see it, it's a huge asset for this team.

 

[Lartsaman]

I really hope that Granlund is okay. The first line played like shit without him. If we lose our first line, we will be screwed.... Our shit press has already started to create panic.

 

[ES]

Ohtamaa was very much late-bloomer. Even made the national team at 25 and never in the WJC or U18 WC

 

[FiLe]

I really hope that Granlund is okay. The first line played like shit without him.

Our 2nd line also suffered from the lack of Ojamäki. While he's supposed to be a scorer first, he also has an important secondary function in keeping Aaltonen productive. So our entire top-six was somewhat handicapped today. Small wonder it was our workhorses in the bottom units who sealed the deal today.

 

[mattihp]

Our 2nd line also suffered from the lack of Ojamäki. While he's supposed to be a scorer first, he also has an important secondary function in keeping Aaltonen productive. So our entire top-six was somewhat handicapped today. Small wonder it was our workhorses in the bottom units who sealed the deal today.

Yeah. But how come Ojamäki can't score?!

 

[Mestaruus]

I really hope that Granlund is okay. The first line played like shit without him. If we lose our first line, we will be screwed.... Our shit press has already started to create panic.

All 3 players in Hartikainen-Manninen-Granlund line are important, but I'd say that if one of them has to get injured it's good that it's Granlund. It would be a bigger loss to loose one of Hartikainen or Manninen. I'd love to keep them all healthy though, but it is what it is.

 

[Mestaruus]

It's a pretty interesting question who of the forwards sits out the next game. I would be interested to see Ojamäki against Sweden and I don't like benching Komarov like Jalonen did for today's game untill Granlund got injured.

Rajala probably did enough to keep his roster spot as well. He couldn't score points but looked energetic out there.

 

[FiLe]

Yeah. But how come Ojamäki can't score?!

Who says he can't? One game sample isn't exactly proof of him being snakebitten.

This being said, he also did look somewhat lackluster last spring in Riga - so him disappointing in this regard wouldn't be that surprising, I guess. But that was a different environment, he was in a different form and had no long-time linemates around him.

 

[FiLe]

It's a pretty interesting question who of the forwards sits out next game. I would be interested to see Ojamäki against Sweden and I don't like benching Komarov like Jalonen did for today's game untill Granlund got injured.

We have a bit of a positive problem with our workhorses; Uncle Leo has been so good that there's no way he gets benched, and Anttila will probably stick too. To me, the logical piece to drop is Pakarinen. Of our PWF cohort, he's left a lot to desire - I'd almost say he's been near invisible.

So:

Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Ojamäki
Pesonen - Filppula - Komarov
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila

If MaG is out, then Rajala in his stead.

I must say, I'd like to see the 2nd line as it was probably "intended" without all the COVID trouble: Rajala - Aaltonen - Ojamäki. But Nättinen has been surprisingly good for someone who practically lucked his way into our top-six thanks to Kemppainen having to drop out and Rajala being temporarily sidelined. Speaking of which, in the case MaG is out for good, one idea I was toying with is using Nättinen as his replacement. Manninen would have to move to wing, giving us a top-six of:

Manninen - Nättinen - Hartikainen
Rajala - Aaltonen - Ojamäki

But it might be too much of a shakeup for Jalonen.

 

[Mestaruus]

We have a bit of a positive problem with our workhorses; Uncle Leo has been so good that there's no way he gets benched, and Anttila will probably stick too. To me, the logical piece to drop is Pakarinen. Of our PWF cohort, he's left a lot to desire - I'd almost say he's been near invisible.

So:

Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Ojamäki
Pesonen - Filppula - Komarov
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila

If MaG is out, then Rajala in his stead.

I must say, I'd like to see the 2nd line as it was probably "intended" without all the COVID trouble: Rajala - Aaltonen - Ojamäki. But Nättinen has been surprisingly good for someone who practically lucked his way into our top-six thanks to Kemppainen having to drop out and Rajala being temporarily sidelined. Speaking of which, in the case MaG is out for good, one idea I was toying with is using Nättinen as his replacement. Manninen would have to move to wing, giving us a top-six of:

Manninen - Nättinen - Hartikainen
Rajala - Aaltonen - Ojamäki

But it might be too much of a shakeup for Jalonen.

You are right that Pakarinen has been quite invisible, but I personally love the guy. He just seems to over perform in national team and I think it's just a matter of time when he starts to be more visible. Few posts ago I said some positive things about Rajala, but unfortunately if I got to choose I'd end up benching him. Either Rajala or Pesonen.

Here's my reasoning for that. I want to return that trio from Slovakia game of Aaltonen-Nättinen-Ojamäki against Sweden. Their line had a guy scoring a hatty almost, two goals and a fantastic pass. It's just easiest to move Rajala out I guess, despite of him being visible offensively in the LAT game, I'd rather have Komarov there for the next game and if someone gets injured, Rajala can step in from the 13th forward slot if needed.

------------------

Bolded are the non moving pieces in my opinion.

Option 1:

Komarov – Sakari Manninen – Teemu Hartikainen
Harri Pesonen – Valtteri Filppula – Iiro Pakarinen
Miro Aaltonen – Joonas Nättinen – Ojamäki
Saku Mäenalanen – Hannes Björninen – Marko Anttila
Rajala

-----------------

Option 2:

Pakarinen-Manninen-Hartikainen
Rajala-Filppula-Komarov
Miro Aaltonen – Joonas Nättinen – Ojamäki
Saku Mäenalanen – Hannes Björninen – Marko Anttila
Pesonen

I like option 2 a lot. Keeping Pakarinen in and rebuilding Filppula's line. Pesonen enters the line up again if it doesn't work against Sweden. Pesonen, Rajala and Pakarinen are kind of the moving pieces, but I prefer to keep Pakarinen in one of those lines and since Manninen-Hartikainen line left something to hope for in LAT game, Pakarinen has to go to first line cause I'm not touching that bottom-6.

There's one joker card (pun intended) with Savinainen. Rules say we can replace injured players with taxi squad players. They don't have to have covid, a normal injury is enough. That's what Jalonen said himself. Although we did get 2 wins with these players so we probably don't need to bring another forward in. As you said we got a big enough positive problem as it is.

 

[FiLe]

Komarov – Sakari Manninen – Teemu Hartikainen
Harri Pesonen – Valtteri Filppula – Iiro Pakarinen
Miro Aaltonen – Joonas Nättinen – Ojamäki
Saku Mäenalanen – Hannes Björninen – Marko Anttila
Rajala

-----------------

Option 2:

Pakarinen-Manninen-Hartikainen
Rajala-Filppula-Komarov
Miro Aaltonen – Joonas Nättinen – Ojamäki
Saku Mäenalanen – Hannes Björninen – Marko Anttila
Pesonen

Hard pass for both of these. The Ufa line already has a strong body in Hartikainen - it doesn't need another one. Jalonen definitely had the right idea when he replaced Granlund with Rajala instead of simply slotting Uncle Leo from the end of the bench in there - a skill guy, not a grinder.

It's just the hard reality: we have too many wingers cut of a specific cloth - gritty creatures who can, however, also contribute to the scoring. (Some more, some less.) Hartikainen, Ojamäki, Komarov, Mäenalanen, Pakarinen, and Anttila. (And you even floated the idea of bringing Claywoman into the mix, who would be more of the same.) There's just not room for them all in this lineup. Someone's gotta make way. And since at least four of those six are probably untouchable now, it leaves the choice between Pakarinen and Ojamäki.

Pesonen isn't going to end up outside the regular lineup either.

 

[Mestaruus]

Hard pass for both of these. The Ufa line already has a strong body in Hartikainen - it doesn't need another one. Jalonen definitely had the right idea when he replaced Granlund with Rajala instead of simply slotting Uncle Leo from the end of the bench in there - a skill guy, not a grinder.

It's just the hard reality: we have too many wingers cut of a specific cloth - gritty creatures who can, however, also contribute to the scoring. (Some more, some less.) Hartikainen, Ojamäki, Komarov, Mäenalanen, Pakarinen, and Anttila. (And you even floated the idea of bringing Claywoman into the mix, who would be more of the same.) There's just not room for them all in this lineup. Someone's gotta make way. And since at least four of those six are probably untouchable now, it leaves the choice between Pakarinen and Ojamäki.

Pesonen isn't going to end up outside the regular lineup either.

If I'd build the lines with those rules and add in my preference of still giving both Pakarinen and Ojamäki a shot. How about this:

Rajala/Pesonen - Manninen - Hartikainen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Ojamäki
Komarov - Filppula - Pakarinen
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila

13th forward: Rajala/Pesonen.

Filppula's unit is a bottom 6 line. It hasn't been working offensively so far and might as well put 2 grinders there. We got enough scoring in that top-6 as long as they reunite that Aaltonen-Nättinen-Ojamäki line from Slovakia game. Manninen and Hartikainen just have to find a working piece from Rajala or Pesonen.

 

[FiLe]

Filppula's unit is a bottom 6 line. It hasn't been working offensively so far and might as well put 2 grinders there.

And a big reason Filppula's line hasn't been working offensively is because Pakarinen has been so underwhelming. If he was on top of his game, he might be able to bring a similar dimension to it as Hartikainen brings to the Ufa line, helping it click. It's almost as if you can't see the forest from the trees here.

This being said, that is a balanced lineup regardless. Third lines are always a bit fluid; they can be geared either for defense or offense based on the depth of the lineup. If one gets enough scoring from the top-six, one doesn't necessarily need a third scoring unit.

 

[Mestaruus]

And a big reason Filppula's line hasn't been working offensively is because Pakarinen has been so underwhelming. If he was on top of his game, he might be able to bring a similar dimension to it as Hartikainen brings to the Ufa line, helping it click. It's almost as if you can't see the forest from the trees here.

This being said, that is a balanced lineup regardless. Third lines are always a bit fluid; they can be geared either for defense or offense based on the depth of the lineup. If one gets enough scoring from the top-six, one doesn't necessarily need a third scoring unit.

My thinking is that against Sweden that is a top team two more defensive lines could be all right. Against our recent opponents one skill guy instead of a grinder was good, so in those games Björninen's unit was enough for that type of line. Can even modify Filppula's unit inside the game if it seems bad. There is that 13th forward ready for line changes. It's not preferred to swap during the game but that option exists.

Well time to sleep and check that women's Japan game after.

 

[FiLe]

Can even modify Filppula's unit inside the game if it seems bad. There is that 13th forward ready for line changes.

This won't happen though if we have eight healthy d-men. You can only dress 20 skaters for a game, and Jalonen was quite explicit that he'd prefer to use a four-pair D rotation if possible. The reason Komarov was ready to go in the last game was because Friman fell ill.

 

[Mestaruus]

I was checking a bit on Finland's chances to get that straight QF spot, so to be top-4 seeded team after the group stage. Finland's goal is to get a straight QF spot and to avoid the extra round. So Finland would need to either win the group or to be the best second placed team when comparing the 3 groups. Group B is no longer a threat in that comparison, but Canada in group A is.

So if we assume the worst case scenario where Sweden would beat Finland on regular time. That would mean that Canada advances as the best #2 of the group because they will crush China and they will have a better goal difference than Finland. It was a real blessing for them to have China in their group. By far the worst team in the tournament that has probably never even played in a highest level WHC tournament.

So USA beating Canada on regulation was bad news for Finland, because the hope was that Germany could've stolen points from USA tomorrow. Canada has already beaten Germany and has the easy China game remaining tomorrow so Canada will be at 6 points with a better goal difference than Finland if Finland loses to Sweden on regulation. Over time loss would be enough for Finland to be ahead of Canada.

On the other hand if Finland would have to play the extra round and be the 5th seeded team, I think that Finland would play the 12th seeded team which most likely will be China. So that won't be a big problem for Finland, but there is the fact that the teams that play on the extra round will have to play back to back games against teams who had a rest day the day before.

This won't happen though if we have eight healthy d-men. You can only dress 20 skaters for a game, and Jalonen was quite explicit that he'd prefer to use a four-pair D rotation if possible. The reason Komarov was ready to go in the last game was because Friman fell ill.

Yeah actually true that Jalonen did say that. I did hear about that one, but didn't think about it when I wrote that.

 

[FiLe]

Lines in practice today:

Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Komarov
Pesonen - Filppula - Pakarinen
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila

Thank heavens MaG is okay. Also, that 2nd line looks... interesting. Of course, I figured it would be either Ojamäki or Pakarinen as the odd man out, and looks like the lot landed on Ojamäki.

 

[Mestaruus]

Lines in practice today:

Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Komarov
Pesonen - Filppula - Pakarinen
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila

Thank heavens MaG is okay. Also, that 2nd line looks... interesting. Of course, I figured it would be either Ojamäki or Pakarinen as the odd man out, and looks like the lot landed on Ojamäki.

Also good to mention that Rajala is out of the line up. We can't say for 100% certainty that they will use those lines against Sweden, but most likely they will.

Lines look good with Granlund in the mix and I'm glad that Komarov isn't sidelined anymore like it was before the Latvia game. I mean how can you when he played so well the ending of the Latvia game. If there is some criticism to be said, it's that Filppula's line didn't contribute much offensively and there are no changes to that line. They could've swapped Komarov and Pakarinen in their lines. On the other hand Filppula's line has been building some chemistry and maybe at some point trusting that will pay off offensively as well.

Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Aaltonen - Nättinen - Pakarinen
Pesonen - Filppula - Komarov
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Anttila

 

[FiLe]

On the other hand Filppula's line has been building some chemistry and maybe at some point trusting that will pay off offensively as well.

This is the best possible argument for keeping Pakarinen in the lineup. If Komarov had been placed alongside Filppula, creating an opening in the 2nd line, the natural choice for that slot would be Ojamäki.

We can't say for 100% certainty that they will use those lines against Sweden, but most likely they will.

Yeah, it's only like 99% certainty. Something unexpected may always happen, like more COVID scares or food poisonings or whatever. And I must say, it's not the least sensible lineup out there. I kinda like it, actually. Can't say it isn't balanced.

Have to say, though, it's a bit surprising how quickly Ojamäki fell in disfavor. He didn't look half bad to my eye in the game vs. Slovakia. In fact, I'd be inclined to say that he's out of the lineup mostly not out of his own fault. First, Covid stopped Kemppainen and sidelined Rajala, which opened a way for Nättinen into the regular lineup, and he capitalized on that chance. Then Jalonen wanted to give Rajala a chance after he cleared the Covid protocols, with the plan possibly being to put Ojamäki back in in the next game. But then fate intervened again, MaG suffered a bump which opened Komarov a way back into the lineup, and he didn't waste his chance either.

So... one player misses altogether due to Covid, another has a scare, and yet another has likewise a scare in the form of a game- but luckily not tournament-ending injury. And as the result of this game of musical chairs, one of the sufferers is a player who is perfectly healthy and was doing nothing wrong. There were just a couple of players who made stronger cases for belonging due to some lucky breaks they caught.

 

[Husqvarna]

All 3 players in Hartikainen-Manninen-Granlund line are important, but I'd say that if one of them has to get injured it's good that it's Granlund. It would be a bigger loss to loose one of Hartikainen or Manninen. I'd love to keep them all healthy though, but it is what it is.

The three musketeers of Salavat Julajev Ufa is a complete Finland hockey-power-trio. No more and no less.

The lesser brother in NHL-eyes anyway, Markus Granlund, maybe a loss - but the one who Finland can live without in that trio. This tournament around.
Finland win/lose as a team. Still Manninen is the machine in that trio.

Hey Joe! The Jimi Hendrix Experience was a trio ... remember?!

 

[Mestaruus]

Have to say, though, it's a bit surprising how quickly Ojamäki fell in disfavor. He didn't look half bad to my eye in the game vs. Slovakia. In fact, I'd be inclined to say that he's out of the lineup mostly not out of his own fault. First, Covid stopped Kemppainen and sidelined Rajala, which opened a way for Nättinen into the regular lineup, and he capitalized on that chance. Then Jalonen wanted to give Rajala a chance after he cleared the Covid protocols, with the plan possibly being to put Ojamäki back in in the next game. But then fate intervened again, MaG suffered a bump which opened Komarov a way back into the lineup, and he didn't waste his chance either.

So... one player misses altogether due to Covid, another has a scare, and yet another has likewise a scare in the form of a game- but luckily not tournament-ending injury. And as the result of this game of musical chairs, one of the sufferers is a player who is perfectly healthy and was doing nothing wrong. There were just a couple of players who made stronger cases for belonging due to some lucky breaks they caught.

Yep no one has played particularly bad. We're spoiled with good options. Including the goalie situation.

Yeah, it's only like 99% certainty. Something unexpected may always happen, like more COVID scares or food poisonings or whatever. And I must say, it's not the least sensible lineup out there. I kinda like it, actually. Can't say it isn't balanced.

Or that someone had a little scratch and couldn't join the practice but it probably isn't the case.

That Sweden game is actually surprisingly meaningless if we think about it. As I said in the other post:

-Beat Sweden or OT loss (seed 4) = straight QF spot.
-Lose vs SWE on regulation = China in the extra round. Seed 5 vs Seed 12. Unless miracles happen those will be the seeds if Finland would lose against SWE. Got to play back to back games in back to back days but China kind of goes for practice. Just wrong kind of practice probably where it would be too easy.