Nothing wrong with discussing other ideas,as I have mentioned some of what we want to use in our bottom 6 may not be as potent as they once were..That is all,Brown was a suggested as a type,fast high energy bottom 6 players that have proven they can play the role against the best ...In said role
Team Canada 2022
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JackSlater
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The reason NHL teams have grinders or traditional bottom six type players is because there isn't enough talent to load a team with top players. Canada doesn't have that issue at the best on best level. You need players who can contribute defensively and penalty kill and such, but Canada has players like Marchand, Bergeron, O'Reilly, Stone, Couturier, and others who can do that while being competent first line players. It takes care of itself if you pick the best players with minor consideration toward roles.
I agree with your point.
However, it is a misconception that Canada was loaded with role-players in 2006.
I am not singling you out with this. I have seen many people say it over the years.
Canada in 2006 took plenty of 1st-line and all-star calibre players. The problem is that they all went cold at the same time, and they couldn't score.
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Heatley
Nash
Lecavalier
Richards
St. Louis
Gagne
These players were all very highly-skilled offensive players. Some of the very best forwards Canada had to offer.
I know they took Smyth, Doan, Bertuzzi, and Draper.
But Smyth and Doan were no different than taking players like Morrow (2010) or Sharp (2014) in other years. Bertuzzi? Gretzky always had a liking for him, and was probably hoping he could regain his dominant form from before the lock-out.
Draper was the only pure role-player taken, and that still is no different than Bergeron in 2010 or Peca in 2002.
Canada had the skill in 2006. They just went cold.
Could have they maybe taken Crosby and Staal, who were both having great years? Sure. But if the above 9 forwards couldn't get it done, then who is to say 1-2 more would have made a complete difference?
Gold Standard
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Who knows. there are no guarantees in a one game win or go home scenario, but I'd rather lose with my best 25 players, my 22 best players dressed and on the ice, but instead of that we had Draper and Burtuzzi on the ice and Crosby on the beach sipping mai ties. I can live with losing that game. tip your hat to your opponents and move on. '06 wasn't that.
JackSlater
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It's true. The 2006 team had mostly the right players on it and they just didn't perform well. Some of the defencemen weren't good fits and Bertuzzi was a horrible selection but if the best players, who are among the very best players in the world, don't play well then the team loses. Even in Draper's case, fully admitting that Draper was a role player, he was at least a guy who was an elite skater, had lots of international experience, and had a strong best on best performance a year and a half earlier on a good checking line for Canada. There are some obvious changes that to that that team in retrospect (and obvious at the time) but it wasn't loaded with role players.
All that said... it's best to err on the side of picking the best players when things are in question. If the best players happened to be 14 playmakering RWs and 8 offensive defencemen that wouldn't be great, but the distribution of the best players is a lot better than that naturally. Pick the very best players and complement those players with the best or near best players who remain.
WarriorofTime
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Canada is STACKED, do you think a team of solely Ontario players would win the Olympics (assume for these purposes, the other Canadian provinces are not on a rival national team, they are just at home)?
JackSlater
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Ontario would be a contender but not really the favourite by any stretch. Ontario has lagged a bit recently, though improvements from other regions have compensated for the most part.
WarriorofTime
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Forwards and D would be pretty stacked for Team Ontario and likely a better skater group than the other nations. Goaltending wouldn't be ideal but Binnington is adequate enough.
Barzal is looking more and more like someone who can really contribute.
The only thing that concerns me about him is that he is bad at faceoffs. In the most ideal of circumstances, if Canada decides to move centres over to the wing, then it would be good if those converted wingers had faceoff ability.
This is why I have thought Stamkos and Tavares have had reasonable chances.
But Barzal just badly outplayed and outperformed Stamkos during a 7 game playoff series, regardless of faceoff percentages.
Saying all of this, does anyone feel like Barzal and Marner play a somewhat similar game in the offensive end?
Maybe only one makes the team. I am not a proponent of adding too many similar players to a roster, at least not as you move down the depth chart. Canada needs to add diverse skill-sets to their roster so that they are able to play any style the game calls for.
The only thing that concerns me about him is that he is bad at faceoffs. In the most ideal of circumstances, if Canada decides to move centres over to the wing, then it would be good if those converted wingers had faceoff ability.
This is why I have thought Stamkos and Tavares have had reasonable chances.
But Barzal just badly outplayed and outperformed Stamkos during a 7 game playoff series, regardless of faceoff percentages.
Saying all of this, does anyone feel like Barzal and Marner play a somewhat similar game in the offensive end?
Maybe only one makes the team. I am not a proponent of adding too many similar players to a roster, at least not as you move down the depth chart. Canada needs to add diverse skill-sets to their roster so that they are able to play any style the game calls for.
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Czechboy
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It'll never happen but I'd love to see a summer tournament of the NHLers provincially battling it out! Team Ontario, Team West, Team Quebec, Team East - nice short round robin and a playoff series for champion. It'd be tremendous hockey.
Czechboy
Náš f*cken barák!
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They are similarly exceptional. I can't imagine another nation considering cutting either (they'd be on top line with Pastrnak for the Czechs). Canadian depth is something else.
WarriorofTime
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I’ve heard there is a little bit of a rivalry between guys from Alberta and British Columbia so you may need to separate those two.
Czechboy
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even better.. I was just spitballing. I doubt there would be a poor matchup.
Crobsy and Mack on the same team would be crazy.
Connor McDavid would get Marner and Barzal.
You get the idea. I think it'd be great TV. It'll never happen but it'd be fun.
86Habs
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We don’t need Tavares, as Crosby, O’Reilly and Couturier (if he makes the team) are all in the upper tier of LHS at face offs. At RHS Bergeron is elite, and Point hovers around 50% but has gotten up to the mid-50s in the playoffs. The rest of our centres are coin flips more or less. In 2010 and 2014 Bergeron was our only truly elite RHS faceoff man (Getzlaf was ~50%), so Armstrong may decide Bergeron and Point are good enough that we don’t need to bring Stamkos to bolster our faceoff capability from the right side. There may be other reasons to bring Stamkos, but I agree that Barzal should have played himself onto the team.
WarriorofTime
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Yeah I doubt it would ever happen at the senior level but maybe they could do something like that so to under 18s
ORRFForever
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Gold Standard
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ORRFForever
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It's a little dry. A little over cooked - but that's my fault. The Frank's Hot Sauce did help - thanks! Just like when we were kids and got a chocolate bunny for Easter - the eyes taste the best.
P.S. The feathers get stuck in your teeth so I needed a LOT of floss.
86Habs
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Watching Tampa these past few weeks has convinced me of two things:
1. Point needs to be in the top 6 on this team, playing alongside either McDavid or MacKinnon. With his finishing ability, motor, and defensive play, I'd think he'd look particularly good alongside McDavid, and would also provide that line with a RHS faceoff option...even though neither McDavid nor Point are all that great at winning faceoffs.
2. Stamkos should, at the very most, have a limited role on this team - as a triggerman on one of the PP units (he still has one of the best one-timers in the NHL), and defensive zone faceoffs from the right side. At this point there are better options at the wing position in the top 9, but I can see him rotate through on the 4th line or in an extra forward role.
This is how I would draw it up right now:
Huberdeau - McDavid - Point
O'Reilly - MacKinnon - Barzal
Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
xxxx - Scheifele - Stone
Couturier, xxxx
Penciling-in the Crosby line, at least to start, should be a no-brainer. The MacKinnon line has a nice defensive element and elite LHS faceoff capability with O'Reilly, and Barzal has the speed and offensive skillset to complement MacKinnon. MacKinnon and O'Reilly also have familiarity playing with each other internationally.
The 4th line LW could be any number of players...Stamkos himself (he'd be playing his off-wing, which I believe he's done in the past and should be capable of), Couturier (if he somehow proves he can move to the wing), or maybe someone like Horvat that can bring a physical element to that line. It also wouldn't surprise me if Armstrong went with a more experienced, low-risk option like Tavares or Benn in that role, if the point of the 4th line is to grind down the opposition in their zone in limited minutes. However, I think there will somewhat of a youth movement in 2022 so my money would be on Horvat over Benn, Tavares, etc. Marner of course merits consideration for the 14-man forward group, but we're very deep at RW/RHS centers and I'd prefer to run with Point, Barzal, Bergeron and Stone at this point. And I think Suzuki (RHS center) will get serious consideration for a depth role as well.
1. Point needs to be in the top 6 on this team, playing alongside either McDavid or MacKinnon. With his finishing ability, motor, and defensive play, I'd think he'd look particularly good alongside McDavid, and would also provide that line with a RHS faceoff option...even though neither McDavid nor Point are all that great at winning faceoffs.
2. Stamkos should, at the very most, have a limited role on this team - as a triggerman on one of the PP units (he still has one of the best one-timers in the NHL), and defensive zone faceoffs from the right side. At this point there are better options at the wing position in the top 9, but I can see him rotate through on the 4th line or in an extra forward role.
This is how I would draw it up right now:
Huberdeau - McDavid - Point
O'Reilly - MacKinnon - Barzal
Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
xxxx - Scheifele - Stone
Couturier, xxxx
Penciling-in the Crosby line, at least to start, should be a no-brainer. The MacKinnon line has a nice defensive element and elite LHS faceoff capability with O'Reilly, and Barzal has the speed and offensive skillset to complement MacKinnon. MacKinnon and O'Reilly also have familiarity playing with each other internationally.
The 4th line LW could be any number of players...Stamkos himself (he'd be playing his off-wing, which I believe he's done in the past and should be capable of), Couturier (if he somehow proves he can move to the wing), or maybe someone like Horvat that can bring a physical element to that line. It also wouldn't surprise me if Armstrong went with a more experienced, low-risk option like Tavares or Benn in that role, if the point of the 4th line is to grind down the opposition in their zone in limited minutes. However, I think there will somewhat of a youth movement in 2022 so my money would be on Horvat over Benn, Tavares, etc. Marner of course merits consideration for the 14-man forward group, but we're very deep at RW/RHS centers and I'd prefer to run with Point, Barzal, Bergeron and Stone at this point. And I think Suzuki (RHS center) will get serious consideration for a depth role as well.
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If he comes back next year and shows he is back at 100%, then I think Jonathan Toews is someone who may get picked.
He can play any role and has tons of experience.
He can play any role and has tons of experience.
ORRFForever
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ORRFForever
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Gary Bettman is starting to seriously poo-poo the idea of the NHL going to the Olympics.
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