Olympics: Team Canada 2022 (Part 2)

[86Habs]

Personally don't think any of Suzuki, Gourde or Horvat are really in the discussion at all and Button is just a little off his rocker. I suppose Suzuki could have some large breakout in the first half but as things lie right now he just isn't there.

Agreed on Gourde, absolutely. Button's February 2021 had Horvat on it, and remember that Horvat was coming a very strong 2020 playoff run. I think he regressed a little last season (or perhaps the 2020 playoffs were an aberration), but needs to put together a strong first half of 2021-2022 to get himself back in contention I think.

Suzuki is interesting because he was debatably the best skater on a Cup finalist, at the age of 21, and has Hockey Canada pedigree. He's got a broad range of skills and can slot-in in a lot of different places in a lineup in the event of injury. I remember clearly that Toews was kind of a surprise pick in December 2009 for the 2010 team (MacKenzie had Jordan Staal on his final projected roster, with Toews on the outside), and Suzuki and Toews aren't that dissimilar in their Hockey Canada pedigree, versatility, and career trajectory. Not claiming that Suzuki is, or will ever be, on Toews' level, and you're probably right in that Suzuki needs a good start for consideration, but I do think he's in contention.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Probably because Lightning fans aren't accusing anyone of being "anti-Lightning" if someone criticizes Stamkos' inclusion on a mock list, or Jets fans aren't accusing anyone of being "anti-Jets" if someone criticizes a list that includes Scheifele on it. Yet one fan in particular thinks it's "anti-Leafs" when I suggested Sportsnet had a pro-Leaf slant putting 3 Leafs squarely on the team, including two who are very much "bubble" players to make it.

The funny thing is it wasn't even a shot at the Leafs, it was a shot at Sportsnet and how they tend to cater their coverage for their biggest fanbase (which makes sense because that's who earns them their most revenue). But the moment you say anything remotely negative regarding the Leafs, you have fans going on and on about "anti-Leaf".

Yeah my problem isn't with people that think they won't be on the team. There is obviously a real chance that neither make it. I was more so contesting the poster wondering why there would even be a discussion about them or their merits to make the team one way or the other. It is absolutely a valid discussion.

 

[zeke]

The funny thing is it wasn't even a shot at the Leafs, it was a shot at Sportsnet and how they tend to cater their coverage for their biggest fanbase

The claim that sportsnet would include leafs players out of a pro-leafs bias is obvious nonsense, of course.

The claim that two lifelong Hockey Canada stalwarts, both prime aged players playing top roles for a top team, would only be included out of a pro-leafs bias is obviously nonsense as well.

You taking issue with them being included in a projection, and naming the fact that they are LEAFS, as your reason, obviously shows the only leafs bias here is yours.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yeah my problem isn't with people that think they won't be on the team. There is obviously a real chance that neither make it. I was more so contesting the poster wondering why there would even be a discussion about them or their merits to make the team one way or the other. It is absolutely a valid discussion.

Except that’s not what I said. I questioned why 90% of the thread is about the Leafs players when there are lots of other players on the fringe of making the team.
And then of course the usual poster (not you) claiming Leaf bias in every post just further derails any discussion.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Agreed on Gourde, absolutely. Button's February 2021 had Horvat on it, and remember that Horvat was coming a very strong 2020 playoff run. I think he regressed a little last season (or perhaps the 2020 playoffs were an aberration), but needs to put together a strong first half of 2021-2022 to get himself back in contention I think.

Suzuki is interesting because he was debatably the best skater on a Cup finalist, at the age of 21, and has Hockey Canada pedigree. He's got a broad range of skills and can slot-in in a lot of different places in a lineup in the event of injury. I remember clearly that Toews was kind of a surprise pick in December 2009 for the 2010 team (MacKenzie had Jordan Staal on his final projected roster, with Toews on the outside), and Suzuki and Toews aren't that dissimilar in their Hockey Canada pedigree, versatility, and career trajectory. Not claiming that Suzuki is, or will ever be, on Toews' level, and you're probably right in that Suzuki needs a good start for consideration, but I do think he's in contention.

I think the only way Suzuki makes TC is if they decide to have an eye toward the future and bring him along as one of the extras. Even then, I'm not sure Canada has that luxury with their current depth up front.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Correct. The 10th highest ppg Canadian forward last year does not in fact have "much worse numbers than other canadians".

So why did you claim something so obviously wrong? Was it because you didn't know what his numbers were and just assumed they were worse because of a biased narrative? Or did you intentionally lie about them to further a biased narrative?

I said skaters, not forwards, Cale Makar had a higher PPV. Well considering he will not be playing a defensive role, he needs to have better numbers in order to have a hope of piercing the team.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Agreed on Gourde, absolutely. Button's February 2021 had Horvat on it, and remember that Horvat was coming a very strong 2020 playoff run. I think he regressed a little last season (or perhaps the 2020 playoffs were an aberration), but needs to put together a strong first half of 2021-2022 to get himself back in contention I think.

Suzuki is interesting because he was debatably the best skater on a Cup finalist, at the age of 21, and has Hockey Canada pedigree. He's got a broad range of skills and can slot-in in a lot of different places in a lineup in the event of injury. I remember clearly that Toews was kind of a surprise pick in December 2009 for the 2010 team (MacKenzie had Jordan Staal on his final projected roster, with Toews on the outside), and Suzuki and Toews aren't that dissimilar in their Hockey Canada pedigree, versatility, and career trajectory. Not claiming that Suzuki is, or will ever be, on Toews' level, and you're probably right in that Suzuki needs a good start for consideration, but I do think he's in contention.

As I’m sure you do as well, if you watched Montréal throughout the year last year Suzuki, especially in the middle of the year, can be very casual in puck battles and makes too many moves when he is in a funk. However, if he plays like he did in the beginning of the year or the last two rounds of the playoffs, he can certainly put himself in the conversation, although I wouldn’t have him on my team

 

[WetcoastOrca]

As I’m sure you do as well, if you watched Montréal throughout the year last year Suzuki, especially in the middle of the year, can be very casual in puck battles and makes too many moves when he is in a funk. However, if he plays like he did in the beginning of the year or the last two rounds of the playoffs, he can certainly put himself in the conversation, although I wouldn’t have him on my team

Realistically I don’t see Suzuki making it. At 21 years of age he would need to be a big step above the competition to have a shot. There’s players I’d rank higher than him even ignoring his age and Team Canada has historically put a lot of emphasis on having a history of playing in international tournaments.

 

[zeke]

Except that’s not what I said. I questioned why 90% of the thread is about the Leafs players when there are lots of other players on the fringe of making the team.

Answer is simple - because so many posters go out of their way to object to any leaf being considered, and resort to lying about their numbers and making up narratives to argue against them.

 

[Dominance]

Scheifele - McDavid - Point
Huberdeau - Mack - Stone
Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Couturier - O'Reilly - Marner

Toews - Makar
Theodore - Pietrangelo
Chychurn - Doughty

Price
Kuemper
Hart

Line 1: Both Point and Scheifele are used to playing with someone that dominates the puck (Kucherov and Wheeler). Both being
centers can help McDavid with the defensive responsibilities.

Line 2: Replicate Mack's line in Colorado. Huberdeau has the skill to either carry the puck or get Mack the puck in the right areas (like Rantanen). Stone does a lot of the heavy lifting defensively for Mack, while also having the skill to finish plays Mack and Huberdeau set up (like Landeskog).

Line 3: As long as none of these 3 have any major drop off in play it's pretty obvious why they're together.

Line 4: Couts and O'Reilly could be interchanged at center depending on who ends up being best fit on the wing. Marner can press the play on this line while not being totally out of place on a more defensive minded line.

D1: If Toews plays like he did last season, he'll be on the team and be Makar's partner. If Toews doesn't end up here, I'd say Chychurn for Makar's partner.

D2: Pretty straight forward. Both players should be on the team, and they play on the same team in Vegas.

D3: Doughty I have a feeling will have a resurgence this season to prove he should be on the team. If Chychurn ends up on a line with Makar, I would replace him here with Pelech.

G1: Price is straightforward

G2: Recent play at WC, will most likely look amazing behind Colorado's defence = he makes the team imo

G3: Bounce back season for Hart, and being put here for the "experience"

I will happily piggy-back off of this.

O’Rielly-McDavid-Marner
Huberdeau-MacKinnon-Point
Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron
Barzal-Couturier-Stone
Scheifele (Breakout Youngster)

Chychrun-Makar
Theodore-Pietrangelo
Chabot-Ekblad
Hamilton (Breakout Youngster)

Price
Fleury/Kuemper
Hart/Binnington/Blackwood/Jarry

F1: McDavid and Marner are pure magic and possession demons; O’Rielly is the hardworking finisher and elite defensive presence (I want one on each line).

F2: MacKinnon and Point have game breaking speed; Huberdeau has the incredible skill and IQ to play off what they create in the offensive end.

F3: None of Marchand, Crosby, or Bergeron have statistically fallen off at all since 2016, and finding a perfect match for Crosby is hard. Likely will play the most minutes of any line, smothering the opponents’ top lines by hemming them in their end.

F4: Stone and Couturier are elite defensive forwards who will make life hell for whoever they line up against; Barzal adds game-breaking skill and speed to take advantage of the turnovers his linemates create, and is an elite defensive player in himself.

Extra F: Scheifele is the complete offensive package who can slot into any line in case of injury or chemistry issues; some young gun (i.e. Lafreniere, Suzuki, Kyrou, Dubois) will inevitably have a breakout season and should come along for the experience.

D1: Makar is the best defenseman in the league; Chychrun is the ideal partner as a mean, strong-skating two-way monster whose lethal shot will be on display if teams focus on smothering Makar.

D2: Theodore and Pietrangelo are top-15 defensemen in the league whose two-way playstyles just seem to line up nicely with one another, as evidenced by everyone putting them together.

D3: Ekblad has finally arrived as the two-way monster everyone saw in Barrie and was on his way to a Norris nomination before being injured; Chabot is one of if not the best skating defensemen in the league, compensating for Ekblad’s only weakness.

Extra D: Hamilton is a PP QB maestro and quietly a top-10 defenseman in the league - seriously, dude’s incredibly underrated. As with the forwards, we bring along the inevitable breakout d-man (i.e. Drysdale, Smith, Dobson, Myers) for the experience.

G1: It just has to be Price, especially after he showed he can still be the best in the world.

G2: Fleury and Kuemper both deserve to be rewarded; choose whoever is having the better season to be the experienced backup.

G3: Once again, take along the inevitable breakout youngster for the experience.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I will happily piggy-back off of this.

O’Rielly-McDavid-Marner
Huberdeau-MacKinnon-Point
Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron
Barzal-Couturier-Stone
Scheifele (Breakout Youngster)

Chychrun-Makar
Theodore-Pietrangelo
Chabot-Ekblad
Hamilton (Breakout Youngster)

Price
Fleury/Kuemper
Hart/Binnington/Blackwood/Jarry

F1: McDavid and Marner are pure magic and possession demons; O’Rielly is the hardworking finisher and elite defensive presence (I want one on each line).

F2: MacKinnon and Point have game breaking speed; Huberdeau has the incredible skill and IQ to play off what they create in the offensive end.

F3: None of Marchand, Crosby, or Bergeron have statistically fallen off at all since 2016, and finding a perfect match for Crosby is hard. Likely will play the most minutes of any line, smothering the opponents’ top lines by hemming them in their end.

F4: Stone and Couturier are elite defensive forwards who will make life hell for whoever they line up against; Barzal adds game-breaking skill and speed to take advantage of the turnovers his linemates create, and is an elite defensive player in himself.

Extra F: Scheifele is the complete offensive package who can slot into any line in case of injury or chemistry issues; some young gun (i.e. Lafreniere, Suzuki, Kyrou, Dubois) will inevitably have a breakout season and should come along for the experience.

D1: Makar is the best defenseman in the league; Chychrun is the ideal partner as a mean, strong-skating two-way monster whose lethal shot will be on display if teams focus on smothering Makar.

D2: Theodore and Pietrangelo are top-15 defensemen in the league whose two-way playstyles just seem to line up nicely with one another, as evidenced by everyone putting them together.

D3: Ekblad has finally arrived as the two-way monster everyone saw in Barrie and was on his way to a Norris nomination before being injured; Chabot is one of if not the best skating defensemen in the league, compensating for Ekblad’s only weakness.

Extra D: Hamilton is a PP QB maestro and quietly a top-10 defenseman in the league - seriously, dude’s incredibly underrated. As with the forwards, we bring along the inevitable breakout d-man (i.e. Drysdale, Smith, Dobson, Myers) for the experience.

G1: It just has to be Price, especially after he showed he can still be the best in the world.

G2: Fleury and Kuemper both deserve to be rewarded; choose whoever is having the better season to be the experienced backup.

G3: Once again, take along the inevitable breakout youngster for the experience.

IMO, Marner/McDavid won't be a good fit because both guys like to have the puck on their stick and carry it through the neutral zone. McDavid's going to need wingers whose main role is to get open and can complete give-and-goes and get the puck back to him, not hold into it long.

I actually think he'd mesh better with guys like Stone, Huberdeau or Scheifele. Good playmakers in their own right, but guys who also don't need the puck on their stick 90% of the time to be effective. And better goal scorers to finish off the chances McDavid creates.

 

[86Habs]

I think the only way Suzuki makes TC is if they decide to have an eye toward the future and bring him along as one of the extras. Even then, I'm not sure Canada has that luxury with their current depth up front.

We've done that in the past with guys like Toews and Duchene, who were initially brought along as spare forwards and probably not expected to play a ton of minutes (or, in the case of Duchene, not even dress). Obviously Toews worked his way up the lineup and Duchene filled in admirably when Tavares got injured. Still though, when it comes to a question of depth I don't think its outlandish to think that someone like Suzuki gets strong consideration. Looking at the discussion on here, after the 10-12 forwards most people think are locks/good bets, and then the Stamkos's and Tavares's of the world, we've been talking about players like Horvat, Perron and Suzuki (just to name some guys who have been mentioned recently) who have some warts in their game but could potentially fill in a need. We're deep, insofar as we'll ultimately have an incredible 4 line forward group, but not deep enough that players of his caliber won't get consideration for minor/spare roles. This might put Suzuki somewhere in the range of 15-18 in the depth chart and with a strong start he could squeak his way onto the team when you consider his ability to play center, youth and playoff experience.

 

[ORRFForever]

I will happily piggy-back off of this.

O’Rielly-McDavid-Marner
Huberdeau-MacKinnon-Point
Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron
Barzal-Couturier-Stone
Scheifele (Breakout Youngster)

Chychrun-Makar
Theodore-Pietrangelo
Chabot-Ekblad
Hamilton (Breakout Youngster)

Price
Fleury/Kuemper
Hart/Binnington/Blackwood/Jarry

F1: McDavid and Marner are pure magic and possession demons; O’Rielly is the hardworking finisher and elite defensive presence (I want one on each line).

F2: MacKinnon and Point have game breaking speed; Huberdeau has the incredible skill and IQ to play off what they create in the offensive end.

F3: None of Marchand, Crosby, or Bergeron have statistically fallen off at all since 2016, and finding a perfect match for Crosby is hard. Likely will play the most minutes of any line, smothering the opponents’ top lines by hemming them in their end.

F4: Stone and Couturier are elite defensive forwards who will make life hell for whoever they line up against; Barzal adds game-breaking skill and speed to take advantage of the turnovers his linemates create, and is an elite defensive player in himself.

Extra F: Scheifele is the complete offensive package who can slot into any line in case of injury or chemistry issues; some young gun (i.e. Lafreniere, Suzuki, Kyrou, Dubois) will inevitably have a breakout season and should come along for the experience.

D1: Makar is the best defenseman in the league; Chychrun is the ideal partner as a mean, strong-skating two-way monster whose lethal shot will be on display if teams focus on smothering Makar.

D2: Theodore and Pietrangelo are top-15 defensemen in the league whose two-way playstyles just seem to line up nicely with one another, as evidenced by everyone putting them together.

D3: Ekblad has finally arrived as the two-way monster everyone saw in Barrie and was on his way to a Norris nomination before being injured; Chabot is one of if not the best skating defensemen in the league, compensating for Ekblad’s only weakness.

Extra D: Hamilton is a PP QB maestro and quietly a top-10 defenseman in the league - seriously, dude’s incredibly underrated. As with the forwards, we bring along the inevitable breakout d-man (i.e. Drysdale, Smith, Dobson, Myers) for the experience.

G1: It just has to be Price, especially after he showed he can still be the best in the world.

G2: Fleury and Kuemper both deserve to be rewarded; choose whoever is having the better season to be the experienced backup.

G3: Once again, take along the inevitable breakout youngster for the experience.

Nice job. Other than Hamilton, I like the defensive pairings.

As always, I don't want Marner on the team.

 

[ORRFForever]

 

[Dominance]

At this point I’m all for this reverse jinx.

 

[86Habs]

At this point I’m all for this reverse jinx.

At this point my assumption is that Marner has a psychological block like Rick Ankiel and Chuck Knoblauch and I'm ready to write him off as hockey player completely. Would be surprised if he ever plays another NHL game tbh.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We've done that in the past with guys like Toews and Duchene, who were initially brought along as spare forwards and probably not expected to play a ton of minutes (or, in the case of Duchene, not even dress). Obviously Toews worked his way up the lineup and Duchene filled in admirably when Tavares got injured. Still though, when it comes to a question of depth I don't think its outlandish to think that someone like Suzuki gets strong consideration. Looking at the discussion on here, after the 10-12 forwards most people think are locks/good bets, and then the Stamkos's and Tavares's of the world, we've been talking about players like Horvat, Perron and Suzuki (just to name some guys who have been mentioned recently) who have some warts in their game but could potentially fill in a need. We're deep, insofar as we'll ultimately have an incredible 4 line forward group, but not deep enough that players of his caliber won't get consideration for minor/spare roles. This might put Suzuki somewhere in the range of 15-18 in the depth chart and with a strong start he could squeak his way onto the team when you consider his ability to play center, youth and playoff experience.

Actually, it's not guys like Horvat and Perron that have been in the discussion for the 13th/14th forward spot, it's guys like Barzal, Scheifele, Tavares and Stamkos (and Couturier, if he's not penciled in on the 4th line). I just don't see which of those Suzuki is better than to make the club. Maybe Tavares and Stamkos if the goal is getting him experience for 2026, but otherwise I just don't see it.

 

[86Habs]

I think you would agree that the following 12 players are commonly seen as either locks, or good bets to make the team (in no particular order):

1. McDavid
2. MacKinnon
3. Crosby
4. Marchand
5. Bergeron
6. Point
7. Stone
8. O'Reilly
9. Huberdeau
10. Marner
11. Couturier
12. Scheifele

Next up is probably Barzal (who I would take 10 times out of 10 over Suzuki), then Stamkos/Tavares, then Horvat/Suzuki/etc. So, I was off by one. We were allowed to take 22 skaters in 2014 (14 F, 8 D), so assuming the same in 2022 there are probably 5+ forwards in contention for the final two spots....assuming the list of 12 above is reasonable. If I had to guess I'd say Barzal (best remaining player, assuming TC gets comfortable that he can play the wing), then Stamkos (shot + faceoffs + Cooper).

 

[ORRFForever]

At this point I’m all for this reverse jinx.

Leave him home.

If not, wait for it at the Olympics. Then Marner can sulk.... AGAIN, and Canada will cry - myself included.

 

[ORRFForever]

At this point my assumption is that Marner has a psychological block like Rick Ankiel and Chuck Knoblauch and I'm ready to write him off as hockey player completely. Would be surprised if he ever plays another NHL game tbh.

There's a BIG difference between playing in the NHL and representing your country in a single elimination Best On Best tournament.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think you would agree that the following 12 players are commonly seen as either locks, or good bets to make the team (in no particular order):

1. McDavid
2. MacKinnon
3. Crosby
4. Marchand
5. Bergeron
6. Point
7. Stone
8. O'Reilly
9. Huberdeau
10. Marner
11. Couturier
12. Scheifele

Next up is probably Barzal (who I would take 10 times out of 10 over Suzuki), then Stamkos/Tavares, then Horvat/Suzuki/etc. So, I was off by one. We were allowed to take 22 skaters in 2014 (14 F, 8 D), so assuming the same in 2022 there are probably 5+ forwards in contention for the final two spots....assuming the list of 12 above is reasonable. If I had to guess I'd say Barzal (best remaining player, assuming TC gets comfortable that he can play the wing), then Stamkos (shot + faceoffs + Cooper).

That's why I don't think Suzuki makes it. I don't think he beats out Barzal as a young guy extra, nor do I think he beats out whichever of Tavares/Stamkos make it as the "veteran" extra.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

His ES linemates this year were Nylander and Galchenyuk/Vesey/Thornton/Mikheyev.

Don’t forget Kerfoot who played a good amount with him, some minutes with Marner, and very little of Thornton.

 

[Zybalto]

Man are you bitter.

 

[ORRFForever]

Man are you bitter.

I HATE Marner but he's also my favourite Leaf. Go figure.

 

[majormajor]

From Friedman:

10. Nathan Mackinnon confirmed a good little rumour — that Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid skated as linemates at a Montreal camp; some pre-Olympic practice. MacKinnon half-joked he didn’t like it, because they won every game. “Way to keep it fair,” he laughed. The Avalanche forward, by the way, spent a lot of time on a line with Mitch Marner.

I like the Crosby-McDavid combo idea more than going back to Crosby with Bergeron and Marchand.

McDavid needs to play with guys who can make great one touch plays, who don't need to carry it long. That's Crosby. I'm debating Huberdeau and Stone for their other wing.

Crosby - McDavid - Stone
Huberdeau - Mackinnon - Marner
Marchand - Bergeron - Point
O'Reilly - Couturier - Barzal