Olympics: Team Canada 2022 (Part 2)

[zeke]

Morgan Reilly has never played for Canada at a best on best, and Tavares has had far worse number than other Canadian forwards recently

I have no problem with anyone selecting anyone, but pretending like Rielly and Tavares are not in legit contention for spots and could only be selected out of leaf bias is obvious nonsense.....and in fact exposes the anti-leafs bias of anyone that claims that.

Bias can be seen, for the record, when you say something obviously untrue like "Tavares has far worse numbers than other Canadian forwards lately". That's very easy to check, and very easy to see that it's wrong.

 

[zeke]

Tavares is past his prime now.

Career Even Strength Scoring Paces:

18-19 (28): 69pts
13-14 (23): 57pts
20-21 (30): 56pts
11-12 (21): 56pts
14-15 (24): 54pts
15-16 (25): 54pts
12-13 (22): 53pts
19-20 (29): 51pts
17-18 (27): 51pts
16-17 (26): 49pts
10-11 (20): 45pts
09-10 (19): 29pts

Yep clearly his game has fallen apart.

 

[Mathieukferland]

I have no problem with anyone selecting anyone, but pretending like Rielly and Tavares are not in legit contention for spots and could only be selected out of leaf bias is obvious nonsense.....and in fact exposes the anti-leafs bias of anyone that claims that.

Bias can be seen, for the record, when you say something obviously untrue like "Tavares has far worse numbers than other Canadian forwards lately". That's very easy to check, and very easy to see that it's wrong.

Amongst Canadian skaters he was 11th last year for PPG, and to be honest having watched him a lot in the North it was very obvious he is not the player he was even in his first season in Toronto. He’s not fast enough for this level and without Marner on his line as was the case two years ago he’s taken a step back. He’s not good enough defensively to take a spot from any of the forwards brought for their two way play, and he’s not in good enough offensive form to take a spot away from anyone in the top 6/9.

As for “anti-leafs bias”, I think you would note that, despite some posters on this thread saying Marner wouldn’t make Kazakhstan, I’ve kept him on my projected team because his skillset lends itself to a role he could play on Canada.

As for Morgan Reilly, I think even the most ardent Toronto fan would admit that after the disasterclass he delivered against Columbus last year, he should be nowhere near a best on best Team Canada, Chychrun, Pelech, Toews all better left side options

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Career Even Strength Scoring Paces:

18-19 (28): 69pts
13-14 (23): 57pts
20-21 (30): 56pts
11-12 (21): 56pts
14-15 (24): 54pts
15-16 (25): 54pts
12-13 (22): 53pts
19-20 (29): 51pts
17-18 (27): 51pts
16-17 (26): 49pts
10-11 (20): 45pts
09-10 (19): 29pts

Yep clearly his game has fallen apart.

Nice hand-picked stats. Tavares was already too slow for an Olympic best-on-best tournament a year ago, and just picked up another concussion. I don’t see him improving his speed or productivity this season, but stranger things have happened I guess.

 

[zeke]

Amongst Canadian skaters he was 11th last year for PPG,

Correct. The 10th highest ppg Canadian forward last year does not in fact have "much worse numbers than other canadians".

So why did you claim something so obviously wrong? Was it because you didn't know what his numbers were and just assumed they were worse because of a biased narrative? Or did you intentionally lie about them to further a biased narrative?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Nice hand-picked stats. Tavares was already too slow for an Olympic best-on-best tournament a year ago, and just picked up another concussion. I don’t see him improving his speed or productivity this season, but stranger things have happened I guess.

I mean I don't particularly care whether Tavares makes the team but how is even strength scoring listed over his entire career a cherry picked stat? That makes no sense.

 

[zeke]

Nice hand-picked stats. Tavares was already too slow for an Olympic best-on-best tournament a year ago, and just picked up another concussion. I don’t see him improving his speed or productivity this season, but stranger things have happened I guess.

Ah yes that meaningless even strength production is useless compared to your unbiased eye test.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

How did this turn into another Leafs thread. The odds of Tavares and Reilly making the team are pretty low given all of the better players vying for spots and the influx of great young players since the last Olympics. Career numbers are pretty much irrelevant in picking who is in his prime right now. Doesn’t mean they aren’t good players still but clearly there are enough players above them that they won’t be in serious consideration.

 

[zeke]

As for “anti-leafs bias”, I think you would note that, despite some posters on this thread saying Marner wouldn’t make Kazakhstan, I’ve kept him on my projected team because his skillset lends itself to a role he could play on Canada.

Yes how unbiased of you to find a spot on your 4th line for the 4th highest scoring player in hockey last year.

As for Morgan Reilly, I think even the most ardent Toronto fan would admit that after the disasterclass he delivered against Columbus last year, he should be nowhere near a best on best Team Canada, Chychrun, Pelech, Toews all better left side options

Columbus last year? Did you mean Montreal? He was awesome in the playoffs this year BTW.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

How did this turn into another Leafs thread. The odds of Tavares and Reilly making the team are pretty low given all of the better players vying for spots. Career numbers are pretty much irrelevant in picking who is in his prime right now.

How is talking about whether Tavares or Rielly making or not making the team any different then literally any other player in contention for the team?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I mean I don't particularly care whether Tavares makes the team but how is even strength scoring listed over his entire career a cherry picked stat? That makes no sense.

Maybe because in his actual prime, his ES linemates were worse than they are in Toronto?

 

[86Habs]

Sportsnet is commonly seen as being very pro-Leafs media, so no surprise to see all of Tavares, Marner and Reilly on their projected team. They're just catering to the major part of their audience. Dreger, at TSN, is similar, though others at TSN (Button comes to mind, and MacKenzie back when he was the "insider" at TSN) tend to put a bit more thought into what they put out, even if they overthink things a little. Button went on the record with projecting both Horvat and Suzuki to make the team back in February, and after the playoffs ended projected Gourde to make the team. Of those players, Suzuki seems realistic in a 13th/14th forward role,

FWIW, I think Marner obviously has a very strong chance to make the team (I'd be surprised if he didn't), Tavares is probably in contention for a depth position, and Reilly is a little further away. All imo of course. I personally think we have better options than Tavares and Reilly and would prefer if neither made the team.

 

[zeke]

How did this turn into another Leafs thread. .

Post #13.

 

[zeke]

Maybe because in his actual prime, his ES linemates were worse than they are in Toronto?

His ES linemates this year were Nylander and Galchenyuk/Vesey/Thornton/Mikheyev.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Sportsnet is commonly seen as being very pro-Leafs media, so no surprise to see all of Tavares, Marner and Reilly on their projected team. They're just catering to the major part of their audience. Dreger, at TSN, is similar, though others at TSN (Button comes to mind, and MacKenzie back when he was the "insider" at TSN) tend to put a bit more thought into what they put out, even if they overthink things a little. Button went on the record with projecting both Horvat and Suzuki to make the team back in February, and after the playoffs ended projected Gourde to make the team. Of those players, Suzuki seems realistic in a 13th/14th forward role,

FWIW, I think Marner obviously has a very strong chance to make the team (I'd be surprised if he didn't), Tavares is probably in contention for a depth position, and Reilly is a little further away. All imo of course. I personally think we have better options than Tavares and Reilly and would prefer if neither made the team.

Personally don't think any of Suzuki, Gourde or Horvat are really in the discussion at all and Button is just a little off his rocker. I suppose Suzuki could have some large breakout in the first half but as things lie right now he just isn't there.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

How is talking about whether Tavares or Rielly making or not making the team any different then literally any other player in contention for the team?

Rielly probably has no chance of making the team realistically so I’m not sure why he’s being discussed. Tavares is a long shot who could get in with injuries so he’s probably appropriate to discuss.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Rielly probably has no chance of making the team realistically so I’m not sure why he’s being discussed. Tavares is a long shot who could get in with injuries so he’s probably appropriate to discuss.

Why do you get to gate keep the discussion though? The left side is wide open going into the season. I personally don't think Rielly ends up making the team but he is certainly in the consideration.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Why do you get to gate keep the discussion though? The left side is wide open going into the season. I personally don't think Rielly ends up making the team but he is certainly in the consideration.

I’m not gatekeeping. I’m just commenting on the strangeness of 90% of the posts being about two fringe candidates when there are others who probably have a better chance.
But have at it!

 

[zeke]

Rielly probably has no chance of making the team realistically so I’m not sure why he’s being discussed. Tavares is a long shot who could get in with injuries so he’s probably appropriate to discuss.

Why would two lifelong Hockey Canada stalwarts both playing high impact roles at prime ages for one of the top teams in the league not be in contention for Team Canada?

 

[zeke]

I’m not gatekeeping. I’m just commenting on the strangeness of 90% of the posts being about two fringe candidates. There are a lot of other players that have better chances imo. Have at it!

They're being discussed because strangely many posters continue to single them out whenever a projection includes their names.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I’m not gatekeeping. I’m just commenting on the strangeness of 90% of the posts being about two fringe players. Have at it!

I mean...exactly how much discussion do you think there is going to be about McDavid and those of his ilk. It is always going to be talking about the last 4ish spots on the roster because those are the ones actually up for grabs. The reality is that those last few spots will probably be decided by how the players perform in the first half. Rielly and Tavares whether you like it or not are in the group of players that if they perform can win a spot on the team.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Why would two lifelong Hockey Canada stalwarts both playing high impact roles at prime ages for one of the top teams in the league not be in contention for Team Canada?

My bad. I thought we were discussing Leaf players.

 

[zeke]

My bad. I thought we were discussing Leaf players.

We were talking about team canada players.

But, as this post of yours here shows, it's impossible to talk about it without being inundated with leafs-bashing.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

We were talking about team canada players.

But, as this post of yours here shows, it's impossible to talk about it without being inundated with leafs-bashing.

Or Leafs cheerleading!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I mean...exactly how much discussion do you think there is going to be about McDavid and those of his ilk. It is always going to be talking about the last 4ish spots on the roster because those are the ones actually up for grabs. The reality is that those last few spots will probably be decided by how the players perform in the first half. Rielly and Tavares whether you like it or not are in the group of players that if they perform can win a spot on the team.

Probably because Lightning fans aren't accusing anyone of being "anti-Lightning" if someone criticizes Stamkos' inclusion on a mock list, or Jets fans aren't accusing anyone of being "anti-Jets" if someone criticizes a list that includes Scheifele on it. Yet one fan in particular thinks it's "anti-Leafs" when I suggested Sportsnet had a pro-Leaf slant putting 3 Leafs squarely on the team, including two who are very much "bubble" players to make it.

The funny thing is it wasn't even a shot at the Leafs, it was a shot at Sportsnet and how they tend to cater their coverage for their biggest fanbase (which makes sense because that's who earns them their most revenue). But the moment you say anything remotely negative regarding the Leafs, you have fans going on and on about "anti-Leaf".