Olympics: Team Canada 2022 (Part 2)

[JackSlater]

Stamkos was getting ripped last playoffs for appearing to be a passenger again, and he really was not particularly impactful. People are entirely too focused on the last playoffs though. If Stamkos plays the same way he's played the last few years and makes the team it's because Canada has failed to produce shooters lately, not because Stamkos is some great make or break player these days.

A sniper or two would be ideal for Canada.

 

[Rob Brown]

Thanks.

That's the one downside of the Olympics being held in a completely different timezone than North America. A lot of the events I want to watch end up being at awkward times.

Yeah, although the other games are like 8 am which means I can watch them before work, and the 11 pm game is a prime time drinking game.

 

[86Habs]

Stamkos was getting ripped last playoffs for appearing to be a passenger again, and he really was not particularly impactful. People are entirely too focused on the last playoffs though. If Stamkos plays the same way he's played the last few years and makes the team it's because Canada has failed to produce shooters lately, not because Stamkos is some great make or break player these days.

A sniper or two would be ideal for Canada.

People are enamored with the idea of Stamkos firing off one-timers from his off-wing like he did in 2013, but he's not the same player anymore. As you said, he's been more of a passenger at ES recently and a lot of his production comes on the PP. To be clear, he's still a legitimate threat on the PP and if he ends up finding himself on the team that's probably the only role I'd want to see him in. We could use a few more triggermen, but I'd be fairly happy with guys like Point, Scheifele or Huberdeau in the top-6 with McDavid or MacKinnon as they add would in theory add more to their lines than would Stamkos, even if they're not the prototypical sniper that Stamkos is/was.

 

[JackSlater]

People are enamored with the idea of Stamkos firing off one-timers from his off-wing like he did in 2013, but he's not the same player anymore. As you said, he's been more of a passenger at ES recently and a lot of his production comes on the PP. To be clear, he's still a legitimate threat on the PP and if he ends up finding himself on the team that's probably the only role I'd want to see him in. We could use a few more triggermen, but I'd be fairly happy with guys like Point, Scheifele or Huberdeau in the top-6 with McDavid or MacKinnon as they add would in theory add more to their lines than would Stamkos, even if they're not the prototypical sniper that Stamkos is/was.

Basically yes. 2012 Stamkos is not stepping on the ice. If Canada has to generate offence off the rush, the powerplay, and by dominating possession then I guess that's just the way it is going to be. There are worse options.

 

[J bo Jeans]

Honestly, he doesn't beat out Gourde either between the 2 - tons of people are high on this guy after the playoffs and Suzuki isn't making it in the top-6 even with a pile of injuries. Neither are in serious discussion but Gourde's utility is more geared towards a shutdown energy role which is less competitive than a scoring role. Oh and Jon Cooper is the coach.

If Gourde makes team Canada over literally anybody mentioned in this thread that'd be a calamity of a decision

 

[Great99]

NHL will stop play 2 Feb, Canada first game is 10 Feb , anyone know if they will have a short training camp or just go directly ??

 

[Sky04]

If Gourde makes team Canada over literally anybody mentioned in this thread that'd be a calamity of a decision

Gourde would be a better pick that Suzuki 100%

 

[Sky04]

Basically yes. 2012 Stamkos is not stepping on the ice. If Canada has to generate offence off the rush, the powerplay, and by dominating possession then I guess that's just the way it is going to be. There are worse options.

Stamkos would also be playing with elite playmakers not Killorn and Cirelli at ES either.

 

[OG Eberle]

Why would two lifelong Hockey Canada stalwarts both playing high impact roles at prime ages for one of the top teams in the league not be in contention for Team Canada?

Just because a player has played for Hockey Canada in the past does not give them a free pass to play on future teams as they age.

New players come up. Some are younger, faster, more skilled, play games more suitable to the current stars of the roster, etc. Points are not everything when you're not playing on the top line in these tournaments. It helps for sure, but there is definitely more to it there.

For the record, I'm not arguing either way about Reilly or Tavares in this response. I just think the narrative that they've been "Hockey Canada stalwarts" is a terrible argument. And you've brought it up multiple times so far in your responses.

 

[ORRFForever]

Stamkos would also be playing with elite playmakers not Killorn and Cirelli at ES either.

In international competition, even with elite playmakers, he's never been great.

 

[Sky04]

In international competition, even with elite playmakers, he's never been great.

Huh? 26 points, 16 goals in 22 international games when he was in his prime isn't good numbers?

 

[JackSlater]

Stamkos would also be playing with elite playmakers not Killorn and Cirelli at ES either.

I'd really like to see 2010-2014 Stamkos playing with elite playmakers internationally. 2022 Stamkos... I don't expect all that much.

 

[86Habs]

If Gourde makes team Canada over literally anybody mentioned in this thread that'd be a calamity of a decision

Gourde would be a 1998 Rob Zamuner level selection. There is no place on a best-on-best Team Canada roster for 2nd or 3rd line players on their NHL clubs, no matter how good they are in their roles.

 

[J bo Jeans]

Gourde would be a better pick that Suzuki 100%

Good thing Suzuki is not sniffing this team.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Huh? 26 points, 16 goals in 22 international games when he was in his prime isn't good numbers?

Stamkos getting criminally looked past in this thread.

 

[ORRFForever]

Huh? 26 points, 16 goals in 22 international games when he was in his prime isn't good numbers?

Let me rephrase...

Best on Best, even with elite playmakers, he's never been great. Yes, it's been limited, but when you add how impotent he was (for years) in the playoffs, I can see why some, like myself, didn't want him on the team

For me, he changed my mind after this year's playoffs. I also changed my mind because of his faceoff prowess and his ability to score goals. Having said that, he should go as the 13th or 14th forward and Mitch Marner should not be there at all.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Stamkos getting criminally looked past in this thread.

Did you watch him in the playoffs? If he makes this team it’s on reputation alone and not form

 

[Zybalto]

Let me rephrase...

Best on Best, even with elite playmakers, he's never been great. Yes, it's been limited, but when you add how impotent he was (for years) in the playoffs, I can see why some, like myself, didn't want him on the team

For me, he changed my mind after this year's playoffs. I also changed my mind because of his faceoff prowess and his ability to score goals. Having said that, he should go as the 13th or 14th forward and Mitch Marner should not be there at all.

Due to bad luck, Stamkos hasn't had much opportunity at BoB tournaments for Canada but I thought he played decent enough at the last world cup despite his low points (kind of reminded me of Matthews in the playoffs snakebit with a bunch of posts as his line grinded the other teams to dust) but looking at both Marner and Stamkos against the Habs in the playoffs, Marner had a better series an I thought Marner was better than Point as well (tilted the ice hard, played better D and had the same points pace as both of them combined.).

I'm actually wondering about your take on Crosby. He's got only 6 points in his last 14 playoff games (-6) and captained his team to 3 upset playoff losses in a row, including a sweep. Do you think he's gotten old and should we be sticking more of a playoff producer/winner in there? Maybe have him on the bench? Much like Marner(8 points in his last 12(Even)), I think it would be ludicrous to penalize him for injured teammates and running into a goaltending differential when he actually was one of the play drivers on the team but just trying to guess what you might think of him.

 

[ORRFForever]

Due to bad luck, Stamkos hasn't had much opportunity at BoB tournaments for Canada but I thought he played decent enough at the last world cup despite his low points (kind of reminded me of Matthews in the playoffs snakebit with a bunch of posts as his line grinded the other teams to dust) but looking at both Marner and Stamkos against the Habs in the playoffs, Marner had a better series an I thought Marner was better than Point as well (tilted the ice hard, played better D and had the same points pace as both of them combined.).

I'm actually wondering about your take on Crosby. He's got only 6 points in his last 14 playoff games (-6) and captained his team to 3 upset playoff losses in a row, including a sweep. Do you think he's gotten old and should we be sticking more of a playoff producer/winner in there? Maybe have him on the bench? Much like Marner(8 points in his last 12(Even)), I think it would be ludicrous to penalize him for injured teammates and running into a goaltending differential when he actually was one of the play drivers on the team but just trying to guess what you might think of him.

As a Leaf fan, you will never sell me on Marner - I've been burned too many times.

As for Sid, the other teams planned their games around stopping him so I don't care about his points. He's still a Top 10 player in my books.

 

[Zybalto]

As a Leaf fan, you will never sell me on Marner - I've been burned too many times.

As for Sid, the other teams planned their games around stopping him so I don't care about his points. He's still a Top 10 player in my books.

Hey, I'm all for holding your own teams players accountable (which is what I think you are doing as a fan here) but I dont think teams are paying Marner(and his attached at the hip partner Matthews) any less attention than Crosby and yet Crosby has worse numbers in almost 3 years against even bigger seeded mismatches.

I just think you need to open your eyes that Marner isn't the villain you've painted him in your mind and it just might be foolish to leave the guy voted the best RW in the league and top 10 defensive forward off the team. You go with your best players and Marner is one of them. Throw together a 3rd line of Barzal/Point/Marner out there against secondary defensive matchups and its gonna be a slaughter.

 

[ORRFForever]

Hey, I'm all for holding your own teams players accountable (which is what I think you are doing as a fan here) but I dont think teams are paying Marner(and his attached at the hip partner Matthews) any less attention than Crosby and yet Crosby has worse numbers in almost 3 years against even bigger seeded mismatches.

I just think you need to open your eyes that Marner isn't the villain you've painted him in your mind and it just might be foolish to leave the guy voted the best RW in the league and top 10 defensive forward off the team. You go with your best players and Marner is one of them. Throw together a 3rd line of Barzal/Point/Marner out there against secondary defensive matchups and its gonna be a slaughter.

 

[86Habs]

Hey, I'm all for holding your own teams players accountable (which is what I think you are doing as a fan here) but I dont think teams are paying Marner(and his attached at the hip partner Matthews) any less attention than Crosby and yet Crosby has worse numbers in almost 3 years against even bigger seeded mismatches.

I just think you need to open your eyes that Marner isn't the villain you've painted him in your mind and it just might be foolish to leave the guy voted the best RW in the league and top 10 defensive forward off the team. You go with your best players and Marner is one of them. Throw together a 3rd line of Barzal/Point/Marner out there against secondary defensive matchups and its gonna be a slaughter.

I think one can really overthink these things and put too much emphasis on small sample sizes or other factors that are somewhat out of the players' control. That's how we ended up with guys like Rob Zamuner (who had a strong 1997 World Championships) and Shayne Corson (strong start to the 1997-1998 season) on the 1998 team. I'm happy that Canada has moved towards a "select the best players available and figure out roles later approach" for the most part under the Yzerman and Armstrong regime, and would expect that to continue for the 2022. Playoff production (or lack thereof), international experience and success, and things like established chemistry should all play a significant part in roster selection, but I think we just need to lean on always bringing the best players available. Marner's playoff production isn't ideal (well, as a Habs fan I'm fine with it), but its not abysmal either, and I would fully expect one of the games very best RWers to be on the team regardless.

If Marner flips a puck over the glass in the last minute of the gold medal game and we lose on the resulting PP, I guess we could say we lost with our best players on the ice. No shame in that. But even with his history of doing so there's no way we should plan for that contingency by not even selecting him.

 

[ORRFForever]

...Marner flips a puck over the glass in the last minute of the gold medal game and we lose on the resulting PP....

The worst part is : We ALL know it will happen so why bring him?

I'm begging Hockey Canada to leave that little prick home.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

With the news that Crosby/McDavid and MacKinnon/Marner were practicing together, what about these lines?

Crosby - McDavid - Stone
Marchand - MacKinnon - Marner
Huberdeau - Point - Barzal
Bergeron - O’Reilly- Couturier

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

With the news that Crosby/McDavid and MacKinnon/Marner were practicing together, what about these lines?

Crosby - McDavid - Stone
Marchand - MacKinnon - Marner
Huberdeau - Point - Barzal
Bergeron - O’Reilly- Couturier

Again, if Sid and McDavid are a line, Sid will be getting the center duties. It makes 100% more sense that way because Sid's better defensively, much better on faceoffs, and it allows McDavid to utilize his speed in quick transition by playing the wing spot in the defensive zone.