Taylor Hall For Adam Larsson V | 4,000+ Posts and Counting!

[Paralyzer]

Why is the only option to maintain the status quo? Why try and frame that position as a position I support? I think Chia blinked too quickly on the Hall deal.

Larsson does not address a primary need for this team...he is not a 2 way dman. This team was the worst in the NHL at producing offence from the back end...the worst.

Larsson doesn't help that cause and if if does its marginal at best.

Thats really the point here...this team needs an offensive dman...there is simply no way to deny that reality.
The only question is the cost and I think the cost will be less as more time passes.

I think you are confusing my post again. Larsson is ABSOLUTELY needed. And he IS a 2 Way Dman. He's not an Offensive dman or a defensive dman. We do need an Offensive dman and I agree on that point, but I'm more referring to the Hall trade more than the offensive dman need. If the Hall trade never happened, we'd be still looking for 2 Top 4 dmen and we all know Demers wasn't the one to fill the Top pairing hole. I personally think Chia pulled the trigger at the right time. If he didn't, we'd be looking at Hamonic for Hall and THAT'S a downgrade right there.

I am still holding out for Barrie, but I know Chia wouldn't leave the team without addressing a few issues first before Training camp if Barrie is off the market. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wiz not get any contracts but the Oilers end up giving him a PTO and gave him a chance in the pre-season with a verbal agreement that if he played well, it'd be for 2 years.

 

[McTedi]

He's the best D-Man this city has seen in 7-8 years. He'll be appreciated by fans who know what the **** they're talking about.

Well I hope so because he got traded for easily the best winger we've had since the glory days.

 

[guymez]

Well maybe the NHL can gift us Sidney Crosby too since McDavid and Eberle and RNH and Yakupov and Hall and Draisaitl (and now Lucic and Puljujarvi) weren't enough.

This group needs to stop making excuses, what is here as is is plenty of talent even without a traditional defensive PP QB.

Or maybe Chia can do his job and actually procure a deal that makes the team better without selling the farm.

Its about coming to terms with the reality of what the deficiencies are instead of trying to convince ourselves that things are good enough and the deficiencies dont exist.

 

[Soundwave]

Well I hope so because he got traded for easily the best winger we've had since the glory days.

Eh, I think Smyth (prime) and Hemsky (prime) was pretty close to Hall. Smyth is the only of the three that ever hit 30 actual goals here.

 

[McTedi]

Eh, I think Smyth (prime) and Hemsky (prime) was pretty close to Hall. Smyth is the only of the three that ever hit 30 actual goals here.

I don't think Smyth or Hemsky are nearly as good as Hall. Hall drives offense the other guys you mentioned do not.

 

[Soundwave]

Or maybe Chia can do his job and actually procure a deal that makes the team better without selling the farm.

Its about coming to terms with the reality of what the deficiencies are instead of trying to convince ourselves that things are good enough and the deficiencies dont exist.

He maybe could have but it likely would have meant burning another year and kinda spinning the wheels until a more favorable deal might have shown up.

I also think people need to let go of this notion that Larsson is just some small time player. He might be the best defensive d-man in the league under the age of 25 this side of Ekblad.

 

[guymez]

I think you are confusing my post again. Larsson is ABSOLUTELY needed. And he IS a 2 Way Dman. He's not an Offensive dman or a defensive dman. We do need an Offensive dman and I agree on that point, but I'm more referring to the Hall trade more than the offensive dman need. If the Hall trade never happened, we'd be still looking for 2 Top 4 dmen and we all know Demers wasn't the one to fill the Top pairing hole. I personally think Chia pulled the trigger at the right time. If he didn't, we'd be looking at Hamonic for Hall and THAT'S a downgrade right there.

I am still holding out for Barrie, but I know Chia wouldn't leave the team without addressing a few issues first before Training camp if Barrie is off the market. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wiz not get any contracts but the Oilers end up giving him a PTO and gave him a chance in the pre-season with a verbal agreement that if he played well, it'd be for 2 years.

How do you define a 2 way dman? For me it means a dman that provides defence and offence....Larsson doesnt do the latter particularly well which is an issue.

If its Wiz...thats better than nothing I guess but Barrie would be the best alternative.

 

[Paralyzer]

Or maybe Chia can do his job and actually procure a deal that makes the team better without selling the farm.

Its about coming to terms with the reality of what the deficiencies are instead of trying to convince ourselves that things are good enough and the deficiencies dont exist.

What are you talking about? Chia DID his job! What other deals are available to him? Weber? Subban? Shattenkirk? All those guys if we acquired them, you and others will ***** and complain about who we had to give up for them and then when it comes time to scoring offensively, you'll realise "Oh wow! We gave up a LOT for those guys and now we have no one who can score except for McDavid". Face it. It doesn't matter who we trade for, the return will always be complained about. If you can name me 1 GM who has won EVERY trade, I will gladly quit from HFBoards altogether.

 

[guymez]

What are you talking about? Chia DID his job! What other deals are available to him? Weber? Subban? Shattenkirk? All those guys if we acquired then you and others will ***** and complain about who we had to give up for them and then wehn it comes time to scoring offensively, you'll realize "Oh wow! We gave up a LOT for those guys and now we have no one who can score except for McDavid". Face it. It doesn't matter who we trade for, the return will always be complained about. If you can name me 1 GM who has won EVERY trade, I will gladly quit from HFBoards altogether.

Nice narrative...some of us just dont believe that Chia needed to make that deal at that time. he blinked.

As for the rest of your post...its a strawman in terms of my actual position on things.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't think Smyth or Hemsky are nearly as good as Hall. Hall drives offense the other guys you mentioned do not.

Hemsky and Smyth carried this team for long stretches in their primes with less talent around them for the most part and were able to get the team closer to the playoffs. I don't think that's as far off as people think.

Hemsky (2005-2011; six seasons) - 0.919 ppg

Hall (2010-2016; six seasons) - 0.86 ppg

 

[Soundwave]

How do you define a 2 way dman? For me it means a dman that provides defence and offence....Larsson doesnt do the latter particularly well which is an issue.

If its Wiz...thats better than nothing I guess but Barrie would be the best alternative.

Never believed Barrie was really available, I never understood the logic of Colorado trading him.

Truth be told I think Adam Larsson wins you more hockey games than Tyson Barrie does though.

 

[tempest2i]

I don't think Smyth or Hemsky are nearly as good as Hall. Hall drives offense the other guys you mentioned do not.

Hall was a better point producer than either guy. Then again Smyth and Hemsky were leaders on teams with less talent that managed to not turn into complete embarrassments.

 

[Paralyzer]

How do you define a 2 way dman? For me it means a dman that provides defence and offence....Larsson doesnt do the latter particularly well which is an issue.

If its Wiz...thats better than nothing I guess but Barrie would be the best alternative.

Like you said, 2 way Dmen are Dmen who play Offence and Defence. Larsson's offence wasn't there because New Jersey HAS no offence. But that's not to say because he wasn't able to produce on an almost non-existent offence he isn't a 2 way dman.

 

[McTedi]

Hemsky and Smyth carried this team for long stretches in their primes with less talent around them for the most part and were able to get the team closer to the playoffs. I don't think that's as far off as people think.

In no way did Smyth ever carry the mail, he was a great complementary player to guys like Weight who drove the offense. Smyth was a great player and leader with a limited skill set.

 

[guymez]

He maybe could have but it likely would have meant burning another year and kinda spinning the wheels until a more favorable deal might have shown up.

I also think people need to let go of this notion that Larsson is just some small time player. He might be the best defensive d-man in the league under the age of 25 this side of Ekblad.

Maybe.
I happen to think that there would have been more opportunities closer to the start of the season. Chia blinked...now the popular narrative is to suggest that he had no choice but to make the Hall deal.

That is simply not true.

 

[Paralyzer]

Nice narrative...some of us just dont believe that Chia needed to make that deal at that time. he blinked.

As for the rest of your post...its a strawman in terms of my actual position on things.

You didn't answer my question. If you think it wasn't the right deal, what was? There was no 'other' deal to be had. Only staying the 'status quo' and hope we draft a dman so by the time we get a Top Pairing Dman, McDavid will be 35 years old.

 

[guymez]

Like you said, 2 way Dmen are Dmen who play Offence and Defence. Larsson's offence wasn't there because New Jersey HAS no offence. But that's not to say because he wasn't able to produce on an almost non-existent offence he isn't a 2 way dman.

When there is no evidence to support that he does have an offesnisve element in his game then yes...it means he doesnt have an offensive element to his game.

Can he develop one...possibly.
Then we are relying on 'hope' again. Lets all hope for the best.
Am i the only one that's tired of playing that silly game?

 

[MessierII]

When there is no evidence to support that he does have an offesnisve element in his game then yes...it means he doesnt have an offensive element to his game.

Can he develop one...possibly.
Then we are relying on 'hope' again. Lets all hope for the best.
Am i the only one that's tired of playing that silly game?

But then your arguing we should have sat back and hoped a better deal came along?

 

[tempest2i]

In no way did Smyth ever carry the mail, he was a great complementary player to guys like Weight who drove the offense. Smyth was a great player and leader with a limited skill set.

I'd take Smyth over Hall on my team every day of the week. Twice on Sundays.

There's more to building a winning team that goes beyond dressing the best even strength point producers.

 

[guymez]

You didn't answer my question. If you think it wasn't the right deal, what was? There was no 'other' deal to be had. Only staying the 'status quo' and hope we draft a dman so by the time we get a Top Pairing Dman, McDavid will be 35 years old.

I did answer your question. I am convinced that another opportunity would shake down between June and September. Barrie and Shattenkirk are 2 names being thrown around right now.

Do you have anything to show why a deal between June and Spetember wouldnt happen?

Even the Pronger deal happened in August.

 

[oobga]

When there is no evidence to support that he does have an offesnisve element in his game then yes...it means he doesnt have an offensive element to his game.

Can he develop one...possibly.
Then we are relying on 'hope' again. Lets all hope for the best.
Am i the only one that's tired of playing that silly game?

25th among regular D in 14/15 in 5v5 points/60 on one of the worst offensive teams in the league ain't bad. Then the next year he got the most brutal zone starts any D has dealt with in 10+ years and still managed more ES points than anyone on his team or any D on the oilers that got to throw pucks to Hall, McDavid, Nuge, Ebs and Drai.

 

[Soundwave]

In no way did Smyth ever carry the mail, he was a great complementary player to guys like Weight who drove the offense. Smyth was a great player and leader with a limited skill set.

Smyth is the only player wearing an Oilers jersey to score 30+ goals more than once (he did three times) in the last 20 years.

None of our 1st overall have hit 30 even once, though McDavid was probably robbed of it.

Maybe we shouldn't underplay how good Smyth was though.

 

[guymez]

But then your arguing we should have sat back and hoped a better deal came along?

I am saying that smart poker players dont blink and rush into a decision too early.

 

[Soundwave]

I did answer your question. I am convinced that another opportunity would shake down between June and September. Barrie and Shattenkirk are 2 names being thrown around right now.

Do you have anything to show why a deal between June and Spetember wouldnt happen?

Even the Pronger deal happened in August.

Shattenkirk does not want to sign here. What part of that is so hard for this fanbase to understand? He and has wife and the rest of his family are from the New York area and they wish to be closer to home.

Colorado does not want to trade Barrie, and doesn't need RNH so they probably would be asking for Hall as well.

Is Barrie at $6.5-$7 mill per better than Larsson at $4.1 per?

 

[Paralyzer]

When there is no evidence to support that he does have an offesnisve element in his game then yes...it means he doesnt have an offensive element to his game.

Can he develop one...possibly.
Then we are relying on 'hope' again. Lets all hope for the best.
Am i the only one that's tired of playing that silly game?

You might as well then just stop cheering for any team that loses and only cheer for the teams that do win. Because what your telling me is you don't believe in 'hope' and you'd rather cheer for proven over factual. I get it. But how do other teams build their defence up? like Philly85 said, ALL great defence were built from within the organisation. There is no team that's built with guys they acquired in trades or signings except for Boston. Getting Larsson is the CLOSEST we have to actually getting a potential Top Pairing Dman and I'd rather have that 'hope' than have no 'hope' at all.