Proposal: Tanev to Toronto

[Tripod]

For fun Canucks fans, what would you want from Philly for Tanev?

 

[4thline]

So quantity for quality? Typical NHL trade based on what actually happens with non elite players.

Fixed. Most NHL trades that aren't 1 for 1 type hockey trades are "quantity for quality". The HF trend of turning their nose up at it is one of the cringiest things on this board. Trades of non-elite (lower end top pair d and 1st line forwards) prime age players with limited term are almost always for a a player of comparable age/talent (with or without even up adds) OR a collection of lesser but still valuable parts, a collection that almost never includes young bluechip talent (the A++ prospects, ELC players with top line potential etc).

Off the top of my head the only trades involving Nylander/Marner level young assets in the cap age were

Pronger
Carter
Richards
Johansen
Kessel to Leafs (and only then because of bad gamble on a poorly structured deal.

Tanev at 27 signed for 3 more years after this is not in that asset class.
Realistically if he's moved it will be for either

A similar aged top-line forward with a couple years to UFA
A mid first + nhl ready/proven 21-24 year old player with top 4d/top 6F but not likely top pair/ine potential + a B+ prospect (sliding scale between the three pieces as needed)

Example deal from not my team

Canadiens 1st (super late) +Beaulieu + 1 of McCarron/Scherbak/Juulsen arguably A- guys but the pick is late

 

[Hunter368]

The Leafs have a plethora of really good prospects that Vancouver would love to have.

Grundstrom, Kapanen, Nielsen, Dermott, etc.

Every one of which would easily be a top 5 prospect for the Canucks.

If that's all the Leafs have to offer for a top pairing shut down D signed long term on a sweet heart deal......there would be a long list of teams willing to offer the Nucks a better offer then any combo of that. That's a very weak offer.

Heck I'm not even a Nucks fan and recognize that's a very low ball offer. Leafs could only dream of getting a D as good as Tanev for that cheap. Nucks would never do that trade. If they blow up their team like they should, many teams would be bidding on Tanev.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Seeing your location is Montreal would you trade Galchenyuk/Sergachev for Tanev?
I like Tanev but that's a big pass.
If the Leafs are trading one of those players it's for a D who is younger, more physical or provides points from the backend. Or a combination of those.

Galchenyuk, no. Sergachev? In a heart beat, if Montreal had need for a right handed defenseman. With Weber and Petry, he'd be redundant here. That being said, it doesn't change Tanev's value. His advanced stats are exceptional, he's only 26 and plays the ever coveted right side. That comes at a high cost.

Furthermore, Galchneyuk has significantly higher value than Nylander right now. So they aren't comparable.

Montreal (wife's team, my 2nd favorite)
Juulsen, 2017 1st, scherbak and something minor (ahl contract etc..)

Can't see any deal from New York

Nope. Sergachev+ from Montreal or bust. Juulsen and Scherbak have both taken steps back in development and that 1st will be extremely late.

For fun Canucks fans, what would you want from Philly for Tanev?

I don't know Philly's prospects that well, but I imagine the demand would center around Ivan Provorov.

 

[david999]

I have got to laugh at some of these proposals on the value of Tanev. He is not a Superstar defenseman that would demand other team's star players in return. He is a good defensive Dman with very little offensive instincts that would be a #3 on a premier team. The trend in the NHL is for puck moving Dmen that help drive the play. I have no doubt he is probably the Canucks best asset to offer in a trade to get back some young players/prospects, and it is exactly what Vancouver should be trying to do since this team is going nowhere as constituted. As for asking back players like Marner, Nylander or Reilley in a deal from the Leafs is ridiculous. Ask yourselves this, if an NHL team could select any of Marner, Nylander, Reiley, or Tanev who do you think would be the 4th choice most often?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Here's the issue with Tanev threads,

1. They're almost always made by fans of other teams (Leafs in this case).
2. Said fans can never agree on value because Tanev plays a style that is less noticeable and flashy (shut down/defensive dman with great analytics).
3. Said fans get offended when Canuck fans want more in a trade back.
4. Said fans start low-balling Canuck fans and make ridiculous comparisons (Gardiner - really? That's like comparing Tanev to Hutton... it just doesn't make sense).
5. Said fans say how they don't need Tanev and he's not worth it.
6. Said fans make more threads wanting Tanev.

 

[jaric1862]

You'd have to think if the canucks were to begin rebuilding, they'd keep someone like Tanev

 

[Red Piller]

I have got to laugh at some of these proposals on the value of Tanev. He is not a Superstar defenseman that would demand other team's star players in return. He is a good defensive Dman with very little offensive instincts that would be a #3 on a premier team. The trend in the NHL is for puck moving Dmen that help drive the play. I have no doubt he is probably the Canucks best asset to offer in a trade to get back some young players/prospects, and it is exactly what Vancouver should be trying to do since this team is going nowhere as constituted. As for asking back players like Marner, Nylander or Reilley in a deal from the Leafs is ridiculous. Ask yourselves this, if an NHL team could select any of Marner, Nylander, Reiley, or Tanev who do you think would be the 4th choice most often?

Rielly

 

[Big Easy]

Here's the issue with Tanev threads,

1. They're almost always made by fans of other teams (Leafs in this case).
2. Said fans can never agree on value because Tanev plays a style that is less noticeable and flashy (shut down/defensive dman with great analytics).
3. Said fans get offended when Canuck fans want more in a trade back.
4. Said fans start low-balling Canuck fans and make ridiculous comparisons (Gardiner - really? That's like comparing Tanev to Hutton... it just doesn't make sense).
5. Said fans say how they don't need Tanev and he's not worth it.
6. Said fans make more threads wanting Tanev.

You completely overused, "Said fans."

 

[Hunter368]

I have got to laugh at some of these proposals on the value of Tanev. He is not a Superstar defenseman that would demand other team's star players in return. He is a good defensive Dman with very little offensive instincts that would be a #3 on a premier team. The trend in the NHL is for puck moving Dmen that help drive the play. I have no doubt he is probably the Canucks best asset to offer in a trade to get back some young players/prospects, and it is exactly what Vancouver should be trying to do since this team is going nowhere as constituted. As for asking back players like Marner, Nylander or Reilley in a deal from the Leafs is ridiculous. Ask yourselves this, if an NHL team could select any of Marner, Nylander, Reiley, or Tanev who do you think would be the 4th choice most often?

If you said all four were the same age? You might be surprised of the % who didn't select Tanev last.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

You completely overused, "Said fans."

Makes it easier to read if I'm referring to a group of people under the same name. If you're going to play the role of Grammar Nazi, you might want to avoid using unnecessary commas.

 

[bossram]

For fun Canucks fans, what would you want from Philly for Tanev?

Konecny or Sanheim. And a bit more.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I have got to laugh at some of these proposals on the value of Tanev. He is not a Superstar defenseman that would demand other team's star players in return. He is a good defensive Dman with very little offensive instincts that would be a #3 on a premier team. The trend in the NHL is for puck moving Dmen that help drive the play. I have no doubt he is probably the Canucks best asset to offer in a trade to get back some young players/prospects, and it is exactly what Vancouver should be trying to do since this team is going nowhere as constituted. As for asking back players like Marner, Nylander or Reilley in a deal from the Leafs is ridiculous. Ask yourselves this, if an NHL team could select any of Marner, Nylander, Reiley, or Tanev who do you think would be the 4th choice most often?

Contrary to fan perspective, Nylander and Marner are not yet stars. They are prospects, which GMs have proven time and again, they are far more willing to trade than HF, regardless of the preceived value. A star player is Shea Weber. And Montreal paid a hefty price in acquiring him. I'll also point out, no one expected Vancouver to get any value for Schneider yet they still landed 9th overall. That's only two spots up from where Nylander was drafted, and he's accomplished nothing at the NHL level yet. Put simply, if Toronto did want arguably Vancouver's best defenseman, we're not going to settle on your decent offers. Don't like it? Oh well. We'll keep Tanev. No harm done.

To your question though: Reiley > Tanev > Nylander > Marner

Why? Defensemen are far harder to develop, right-handed defensemen are especially rare and you can insulate a weaker forward depth. Montreal has demonstrated that for years. Average forwards, solid defense and stellar goaltending. Conversely, Edmonton focused entirely on skill forwards and has floundered for years.

 

[Canuck86]

If the major pieces to a deal was Tanev & JVR what additional pieces would be needed to make this trade happen and satisfy both fan bases...Impossible I know!

 

[4thline]

Contrary to fan perspective, Nylander and Marner are not yet stars. They are prospects, which GMs have proven time and again, they are far more willing to trade than HF, regardless of the preceived value. A star player is Shea Weber. And Montreal paid a hefty price in acquiring him.

While not yet stars, they are the absolute elite of elite as prospects go, and "time and again" is definitely an overstatement.

Earlier in the thread I posted a list of trades involving comparable prospects in the cap age, the player on the other side wasn't a defense only #2.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

If the major pieces to a deal was Tanev & JVR what additional pieces would be needed to make this trade happen and satisfy both fan bases...Impossible I know!

You're underselling Tanev if JVR is part of this deal.

 

[Mats13]

No Marner/Nylander, no Tanev to Toronto.

Tanev would really help our top 4, that much is obvious.

But seriously, who are you trying to kid? You're not getting Marner/Nylander for anything on your roster.

On a side note, the Canucks should trade Tanev while his value is at its highest and actually start rebuilding.

 

[Blueangel1891]

Tanev would really help our top 4, that much is obvious.

But seriously, who are you trying to kid? You're not getting Marner/Nylander for anything on your roster.

On a side note, the Canucks should trade Tanev while his value is at its highest and actually start rebuilding.

Nobody says we're actually getting one of the Big 3. Every Nuck fans knows the Leafs aren't going to trade them. We're just saying you won't get Tanev without one of them, so these threads and proposals are useless

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Tanev would really help our top 4, that much is obvious.

But seriously, who are you trying to kid? You're not getting Marner/Nylander for anything on your roster.

On a side note, the Canucks should trade Tanev while his value is at its highest and actually start rebuilding.

Tanev's age would still fit a rebuild for this team, he'll be in his early 30s when we start competing again (assuming a tank/rebuild lasts 4-6 years or so). I don't see how Canucks should feel pressured to deal him tbh.

And fair enough to Leafs fans, Marner and Nylander are very important players to your rebuild and are exciting to watch. I don't blame you guys for not wanting to trade them for a stay at home defenceman. I don't think there's a deal to be made here unless you offered up a package of some good draft picks and prospects (1st + Kapanen would be a good start).

 

[Mats13]

Tanev's age would still fit a rebuild for this team, he'll be in his early 30s when we start competing again (assuming a tank/rebuild lasts 4-6 years or so). I don't see how Canucks should feel pressured to deal him tbh.

And fair enough to Leafs fans, Marner and Nylander are very important players to your rebuild and are exciting to watch. I don't blame you guys for not wanting to trade them for a stay at home defenceman. I don't think there's a deal to be made here unless you offered up a package of some good draft picks and prospects (1st + Kapanen would be a good start).

I won't lie I've wanted Tanev since I saw the Rielly-Tanev pairing at the WHC. But I understand it's unlikely to happen. And I get not wanting to trade him.

Rielly - Tanev
Gardiner - Zaitsev

Looks like a defence that could actually make the playoffs. But we can't afford to sacrifice our offence for the next decade.

As for the Canucks rebuild, I can't think of a player on your team that would return more than Tanev. Kind of like how we traded Kessel, got Kap and a 1st, and then bottomed out. Short term pain for long term gain. The Leafs could be a good trade partner as we have a lot of young talent and play in the East, but that's not really worth discussing because HF can never agree on deals.

 

[Hunter368]

If the major pieces to a deal was Tanev & JVR what additional pieces would be needed to make this trade happen and satisfy both fan bases...Impossible I know!

I can't see the Nucks being interested in jvr at the cost of Tanev. Nucks are either going to keep trying to win while the twins are still signed/productive which means D is more critical then a winger (thus Tanev is kept) or they blow up the team and sell Tanev off to the highest bidder and there would be many bidders......meaning the Leafs low ball offers would be blown out of the water by another team.

 

[Menzinger]

So quantity for quality? Typical Leafs proposal.

To be fair, most NHL trades often take that form.

True 1 for 1 hockey trades are a rare breed these days.

 

[Canuck86]

what does Toronto offer with JVR to get Tanev then?

 

[Maukkis]

what does Toronto offer with JVR to get Tanev then?

Nothing, as JVR won't work as a base.

There's just no point. Vancouver needs an elite piece for Tanev, and if that piece is not available, then the logical option is to keep him. JVR does not get it done, nor does anything worse than that.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Contrary to fan perspective, Nylander and Marner are not yet stars. They are prospects, which GMs have proven time and again, they are far more willing to trade than HF, regardless of the preceived value. A star player is Shea Weber. And Montreal paid a hefty price in acquiring him. I'll also point out, no one expected Vancouver to get any value for Schneider yet they still landed 9th overall. That's only two spots up from where Nylander was drafted, and he's accomplished nothing at the NHL level yet. Put simply, if Toronto did want arguably Vancouver's best defenseman, we're not going to settle on your decent offers. Don't like it? Oh well. We'll keep Tanev. No harm done.

To your question though: Reiley > Tanev > Nylander > Marner

Why? Defensemen are far harder to develop, right-handed defensemen are especially rare and you can insulate a weaker forward depth. Montreal has demonstrated that for years. Average forwards, solid defense and stellar goaltending. Conversely, Edmonton focused entirely on skill forwards and has floundered for years.

I know defense is different but just for fun, think about this....Marner will likely match Tanev's career high in points in his first 20-25 games in the NHL.