Player Discussion Tage Thompson 2

[sabremike]

 

[Jim Bob]

Five incorrect lessons NHL GMs will try to learn from the Age of Tage

Right now, somebody in every front office around the NHL is looking at Thompson’s season and wondering what it means for them.

theathletic.com

Tage Thompson and Josh Allen will create a lot of people that think their guy will just take some time to develop.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

TT is now only behind McDavid & Draisaitl in league wide scoring. He just keeps going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

I'm aware it's (probably) something of a hot streak - but he's absolutely a 10m+/per player right now. Yet we have him locked up during his prime for far less than that.

You like to think the extensions for Cozens/Quinn/Dahlin/Power etc will mesh with this but it's hard to tell....

But if we build a solid defensive core & get a good goalie (waiting for Levi to maybe be that guy doesn't count)... I really do have a lot of hope for this group.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Five incorrect lessons NHL GMs will try to learn from the Age of Tage

Right now, somebody in every front office around the NHL is looking at Thompson’s season and wondering what it means for them.

theathletic.com

Tage Thompson and Josh Allen will create a lot of people that think their guy will just take some time to develop.

Allen already has done so on his own to be honest with you.

I see far too msny people who don't respect the odds Allen/the Bills beat - thinking that type of development is automatic.

Anyone in that mindset looking at Tage... I guess it will only add fuel to the fire.

 

[Jim Bob]

Allen already has done so on his own to be honest with you.

I see far too msny people who don't respect the odds Allen/the Bills beat - thinking that type of development is automatic.

Anyone in that mindset looking at Tage... I guess it will only add fuel to the fire.

Allen definitely has.

Just look at all the NFL fanbases who have a 1st round QB that struggles their first year or two. They all think their QB is the next Josh Allen.

 

[Chainshot]

Many of the items McIndoe touches upon are regular tropes in the NHL - development taking time, the clutching to one's own picks, the attempted rationalizations of notably terrible trades. What he does not address is the heretofore unthinkable - that a struggling winger could be unlocked by moving him to center. That? That is the lesson of the Thompson situation that I don't see anyone else even trying let alone replicating.

 

[cybresabre]

Many of the items McIndoe touches upon are regular tropes in the NHL - development taking time, the clutching to one's own picks, the attempted rationalizations of notably terrible trades. What he does not address is the heretofore unthinkable - that a struggling winger could be unlocked by moving him to center. That? That is the lesson of the Thompson situation that I don't see anyone else even trying let alone replicating.

Yet I get laughed at for suggesting we try Casey in net.

 

[Zach716]

Many of the items McIndoe touches upon are regular tropes in the NHL - development taking time, the clutching to one's own picks, the attempted rationalizations of notably terrible trades. What he does not address is the heretofore unthinkable - that a struggling winger could be unlocked by moving him to center. That? That is the lesson of the Thompson situation that I don't see anyone else even trying let alone replicating.

I think it proves we should be pretty liberal with opportunity for all our young guys (current and upcoming) to see who could be that amazing long term 3C lock, Tage and Cozens filling out that top 6.

 

[Ace]

The lesson with Tage that teams should learn is not to give up on a guy when it isn’t working…IF you see how hard they work in practice and off the ice. It’s the same lesson with Allen. It’s what they both have in common that somehow gets lost in talk of coordinators and coaches, elite traits and size. Both these guys work harder. When it wasn’t working…they worked harder. When it started working…they worked harder. When they broke through…they worked harder.

Adams trusted Tage to give him a deal not because of the 38 goals…that’s what set the price (which is already hilarious). The trust was in seeing the player every day and knowing who they are and how hard they work.

Other teams will know who their player is. They’ll know if they’re lying to themselves about the work they have, and will, do.

 

[Jim Bob]

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[BUCKSHOT]

The lesson with Tage that teams should learn is not to give up on a guy when it isn’t working…IF you see how hard they work in practice and off the ice. It’s the same lesson with Allen. It’s what they both have in common that somehow gets lost in talk of coordinators and coaches, elite traits and size. Both these guys work harder. When it wasn’t working…they worked harder. When it started working…they worked harder. When they broke through…they worked harder.

Adams trusted Tage to give him a deal not because of the 38 goals…that’s what set the price (which is already hilarious). The trust was in seeing the player every day and knowing who they are and how hard they work.

Other teams will know who their player is. They’ll know if they’re lying to themselves about the work they have, and will, do.

see Mittelstadt, Casey

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

I'm ordering one!

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Many of the items McIndoe touches upon are regular tropes in the NHL - development taking time, the clutching to one's own picks, the attempted rationalizations of notably terrible trades. What he does not address is the heretofore unthinkable - that a struggling winger could be unlocked by moving him to center. That? That is the lesson of the Thompson situation that I don't see anyone else even trying let alone replicating.

Moving him to center was likely not the only reason he started playing better. He was still developing so I'd attribute improvements to development more than just a position change.

Dahlin made a big jump in development this year, but he plays the same position. I don't really see any evidence that Tage would turn back to crap if he went back to the wing.

It's like my dad teaching me to ride a bike -- he spent every day for weeks practicing with me, but I didn't actually ride myself until the one day the neighbor gave me a push. Did the neighbor teach me, who gave me the one push, or my dad, who spent months doing it? I have a hard time giving the center switch or Granato all the credit when it was more just that one last push.

 

[Chainshot]

Moving him to center was likely not the only reason he started playing better. He was still developing so I'd attribute improvements to development more than just a position change.

Dahlin made a big jump in development this year, but he plays the same position. I don't really see any evidence that Tage would turn back to crap if he went back to the wing.

It's like my dad teaching me to ride a bike -- he spent every day for weeks practicing with me, but I didn't actually ride myself until the one day the neighbor gave me a push. Did the neighbor teach me, who gave me the one push, or my dad, who spent months doing it? I have a hard time giving the center switch or Granato all the credit when it was more just that one last push.

Funny enough but Granato has said moving Tage to center was part of unlocking his ability to utilize more of the ice with his reach and wingspan. Since the HC has indicated that was why, I'm cool with taking his word for it in light of the results over the last two years.

 

[Fezzy126]

Funny enough but Granato has said moving Tage to center was part of unlocking his ability to utilize more of the ice with his reach and wingspan. Since the HC has indicated that was why, I'm cool with taking his word for it in light of the results over the last two years.

I'm not disagreeing by any means, but one thing that often gets lost is that Tage started to turn the corner when Ralph got fired. It wasn't an immediate change, but he did score 7g, 11 points over the last two months of the 20-21 season (21 games), that's good for a 27 goal / 42 point pace. The even strength metrics were still very poor, but this was definitely a sign that his strength, shot, and confidence were starting to trend upward.

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing; his length, desire to handle the puck, and desire to roam are all better suited for center. I still think it's absolutely a genius move, did help unlock his max potential, and deserves full credit. But some out there on the interwebs believe that had Tage not moved to center, he might have flamed out of the league by now. I think he still would have been good goal scorer from the wing, albeit perhaps not quite as dynamic with the puck.

 

[Jim Bob]

The DFO Rundown Ep. 178 – Brent Thompson on his son Tage’s rise to stardom

Episode 178 of The DFO Rundown is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Co. Join Frank’s Dry Jan challenge powered...

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32 Thoughts: How Vancouver ended up in a tough spot with Bo Horvat

In this week's notes, Elliotte Friedman writes about how the Canucks got to where they are with Bo Horvat, plus who's been interested in Jesse Puljujarvi, and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

It looks like EF may have been motivated by the above interview to have a conversation with Brent. The above interview was a really good listen, BTW.

16. As Tage Thompson exploded for five goals in last Wednesday’s 9-4 win over Columbus, father Brent was “just enjoying being a parent, being a fan. But when the fourth one went in, I was like, ‘Holy Smokes!’” Brent, in his 10th season as coach of the AHL Bridgeport Islanders, played 121 NHL games for Los Angeles, Winnipeg and Phoenix. Another son, Tyce, plays for AHL Utica.

Brent Thompson refuses to take credit for any of Tage’s recent success. “He’s proving a lot of people wrong, but everyone matures at a different pace. I demanded that he learn to work hard when he was younger…whether you’re in hockey or a different business, always be the hardest worker. But he always had that self-motivation since he first put a stick in his hand. He loves the game.”

17. Tage’s first full professional season at AHL San Antonio was a split affiliation between Colorado and St. Louis, a tough situation for Tage. Things didn’t start well in Buffalo after being included in the Ryan O’Reilly trade, and he was sent to Rochester for the end of the 2018-19 season. Brent told him to embrace it, which Tage did. That year and the start of the next, he had 21 points in 24 games, earning a call-up, where he suffered a season-ending shoulder injury during his first game.

“It made him a better player,” Brent said. “I’m happy about his character.” He really took off after Don Granato became head coach. Granato had familiarity with Thompson, who had two points in 13 games before the change in March 2021. He had 12 in 25 afterwards, before last year’s breakout. He signed a seven-year $50M extension last summer and didn’t like the way he began the year.

“He enjoys and loves Buffalo very much,” Brent said. “In the first couple of games when he wasn’t lighting it up, he thought he was letting down the Sabres. My only comment was ‘just relax.’ You got the contract, don’t stress, enjoy it, the money’s in your back pocket. Just play.” He also agrees with one of Tage’s previous comments, that the centre will be even better once he gets to 228 pounds without costing any mobility. “Yes, another five-to-eight pounds, he’s going to be even more of a force. He’s always been a late bloomer, a skinnier kid. He’s coming.” Coming? Yikes.

18. It was clear from the conversation Brent Thompson loves working with Tage and Tyce. Any particularly funny moment that stands out? “There was one summer I was going over some shooting details with them. Tage got a little snippy with me, and I said, ‘When you score 20 you can tell me how to do things.’” He laughed. “Now I have to be quiet.”

 

[Jim Bob]

Duhatschek notebook: Thompson's development, the Kraken's Wright approach, and more

The Athletic's Eric Duhatschek takes a look at the biggest storylines in the NHL in his weekly notebook.

theathletic.com

Pang has covered four Sabres games already this season, and a lot of the focus in the broadcasts has been on Thompson’s evolution.

“We did something on a TNT game — measuring how far he can bring the stick out to his right side — and it was like six-and-a-half feet,” Pang said. “He said it could be even more, except that he uses a very short stick for a player of his height. He tells me he’s 6-foot-7 now and Alex Tuch’s stick is way longer than his. But he’s old school and likes the shorter stick so he can bring the puck closer in to his feet.

“I’ve learned a lot about Tage the player, but the other thing is, he’s a man now. He’s matured physically. He’s got a baby at home. He works really hard at getting better.”

The decision, by Granato, to shift Thompson to center from the wing was a big part of his surge, said Pang.

“Tage was locked in to the right wing, until you make a trade for Tuch, and then he goes to the middle — that’s also Donny Granato’s knowledge of the small intricacies of the game. He’s very skills oriented. He’s very teaching-positive,” Pang said. “Stickhandling-wise, Granato is teaching guys not to stickhandle in front of you, but keeping the puck to the side or behind, and using your legs or your ass to protect it, so the puck can’t be swatted away.

“They all do it – (Rasmus) Dahlin does it, Tuch does it, (Jeff) Skinner does it, Tage does it. They all work on it in practice. So, you can’t tell me you can’t teach these kids anything new. Donny’s a good example. He’s continuing to teach.”

 

[Der Jaeger]

I think the center vs wing debate is valid, in that moving to center made a difference. Sure, Thompson got better. And I do acknowledge that the forwards tend to be interchageable in the NHL to a degree. But there's a reason why Olofsson isn't at center, and why Johan Larsson wasn't at wing.

Wingers have qualities that allow them to chase down pucks in the offensive zone, challenge defenseman with speed, and tend to be good in tight with low amounts of time. They can also be effective with size and forechecking.

Centers tend to see the ice better because they end up as the F3 more often than not. They have more defensive responsibility, but that also gives them a chance to get cranked up in the neutral zone and get moving. Center tend to have to beat an entire defense because they are typically F3. So, vision matters more.

I suspect the additional time and space mattered a lot for Thompson's game.

That all said, letting a kid who is working hard develop also played a ton into this situation. The position shift alone isn't the reason. It's probably a mix of development, position shift, different teammates, role change, team attitude change, etc. There's no silver bullet anyone can replicate with Thompson.

 

[TehDoak]

The lesson with Tage that teams should learn is not to give up on a guy when it isn’t working…IF you see how hard they work in practice and off the ice. It’s the same lesson with Allen. It’s what they both have in common that somehow gets lost in talk of coordinators and coaches, elite traits and size. Both these guys work harder. When it wasn’t working…they worked harder. When it started working…they worked harder. When they broke through…they worked harder.

Adams trusted Tage to give him a deal not because of the 38 goals…that’s what set the price (which is already hilarious). The trust was in seeing the player every day and knowing who they are and how hard they work.

Other teams will know who their player is. They’ll know if they’re lying to themselves about the work they have, and will, do.

The 'hard worker' thing is pretty overplayed IMHO. Every player who gets to the NHL is a hard worker. There is the occasional guy who just has SO much natural talent they can float through and dominate until they hit the NHL, but that is rarer and rarer these days as the lower levels get more competitive. The old trope of the lazy skilled player is on its deathbed.

Tage's rise is a weird mix of skill, a late growth spurt, and being handed an opportunity to play consequence free hockey at a professional level. I have to think the off ice stuff with his wife probably contributed to his struggles as well. He was the bust of busts for his entire ELC for him to suddenly become this good is an improbable as any thing you will ever see out of hockey.

Anyone trying to use him as an example of holding onto players hoping they'll develop later is like people who continue to buy lotto tickets because someone they knew won 100k once.

see Mittelstadt, Casey

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Funny enough but Granato has said moving Tage to center was part of unlocking his ability to utilize more of the ice with his reach and wingspan. Since the HC has indicated that was why, I'm cool with taking his word for it in light of the results over the last two years.

Actually, that's the media who says that, not Granto -- every time they make a point of it to him, he shoots it down and gives all the credit to the work Tage has done himself.

Moving to center was "part of unlocking" his abilities, I agree -- but let's not get carried away in the role that it played, like Granato is always reminding the media.

 

[2 others]

The lesson with Tage that teams should learn is not to give up on a guy when it isn’t working…

He taught me to not give up on myself.. I remember a video way back the Sabres made about him and his recovery after the shoulder injury, and at the end of it he said he wants to win a Stanley Cup with the Sabres. I still remember my own reaction to this, thinking "Ok, buddy, sure.."

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

That all said, letting a kid who is working hard develop also played a ton into this situation. The position shift alone isn't the reason. It's probably a mix of development, position shift, different teammates, role change, team attitude change, etc. There's no silver bullet anyone can replicate with Thompson.

The basically echoes everything Granato has said on the topic.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

32 Thoughts: How Vancouver ended up in a tough spot with Bo Horvat

In this week's notes, Elliotte Friedman writes about how the Canucks got to where they are with Bo Horvat, plus who's been interested in Jesse Puljujarvi, and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

It looks like EF may have been motivated by the above interview to have a conversation with Brent. The above interview was a really good listen, BTW.

Beautiful

 

[Matt Ress]

The 'hard worker' thing is pretty overplayed IMHO. Every player who gets to the NHL is a hard worker. There is the occasional guy who just has SO much natural talent they can float through and dominate until they hit the NHL, but that is rarer and rarer these days as the lower levels get more competitive. The old trope of the lazy skilled player is on its deathbed.

Tage's rise is a weird mix of skill, a late growth spurt, and being handed an opportunity to play consequence free hockey at a professional level. I have to think the off ice stuff with his wife probably contributed to his struggles as well. He was the bust of busts for his entire ELC for him to suddenly become this good is an improbable as any thing you will ever see out of hockey.

Anyone trying to use him as an example of holding onto players hoping they'll develop later is like people who continue to buy lotto tickets because someone they knew won 100k once.



View attachment 621887

I completely disagree with this entire post. Fully.

 

[Chainshot]

Actually, that's the media who says that, not Granto -- every time they make a point of it to him, he shoots it down and gives all the credit to the work Tage has done himself.

Moving to center was "part of unlocking" his abilities, I agree -- but let's not get carried away in the role that it played, like Granato is always reminding the media.

Where did anyone say that Thompson also hasn't put in work? As for Don and the move, in his own words:

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"That was a big thing why I was excited to move him off the wall because he can use more of his agility because he's such a great athlete and going potentially either way, where he's so much more unpredictable if you're trying to defend him. He can roll right, left; he doesn't have to just go one direction. I think it's complemented the area of his skill set, but he's done the job."

Even earlier -

"The potential for him to be great there...

"If we can get him to play that position, it’s going to be impactful. And he’s showing signs right away that are even more intriguing than I thought before I put him there."

Don moved him, Thompson did work as he did when they sent him down and when he rehabbed the shoulder. Not sure why you are loathe to give Don any credit in how this has worked out.