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Sweden is not a hockey power anymore

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Yozhik v tumane said:
2019 Team Sweden was certainly a WHC dream team. Pointing to Loui Eriksson to downplay it is ridiculous, there were indeed a bunch of names who would have made a best on best-roster as well on there, including Sweden’s two leaders in points. However, calling it “half Sweden’s best players” is also pretty askew. Even if it would have been half the best players in 2019, it’s a flawed half.

Team was quite heavy on pre- or early-prime young guns with little to no experience of playoff hockey at the time. The fast, young, new NHL losers. A kid like Nylander has grown on me more recently, but he played every bit like the spoiled brat he had a reputation for being versus Finland in 2019. Iirc, Finland tied the game off a Nylander giveaway on some fancy bullshit he would have been benched for in Toronto. The Swedes should have walked home that gold, but they got too arrogant. They went to the WHCs to have fun and play, the Finns were there to compete. Sweden outplayed and outshot the gritty, structured Finns, but were punished for its arrogance, dropping the lead and losing in OT.
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The Finns outshot the Swedes in that particular game, even if that might not tell the whole story of the game.

Source: https://www.iihf.com/pdf/690/ihm690359_74_5_1
 
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MattiasSnall said:
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The Finns outshot the Swedes in that particular game, even if that might not tell the whole story of the game.

Source: https://www.iihf.com/pdf/690/ihm690359_74_5_1
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How embarrassing of me. I was sure I read the opposite shot count on Wikipedia, but was wrong about that after double checking just now. I do remember the Swedes being ahead for most of the game, and controlling the puck more often than not. Was wrong about the shots though.
 
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fredligh said:
And all those cherry picking the fact that Sweden is placed 5th-7th on iihf rankings, well guess what; finland was ranked at nr. 7th in 2005, right before they, for the first time ever, went on to be the second best team in a best on best tournament (olympics 2006).

Edit: what is also so fun, is that trolls in this thread is trying to prove their point by taking womens ice hockey into consideration, lmao
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You are the biggest troll in hfboards, bigger than AB13. The only thing you seem to be able to do is writing excuses and that you had your F-team and then your H-team. Then claim other would be trolls... The irony.
 
Eye of Ra said:
why do you keep bringing up the 2019 game? sweden dominated finland in that game. look at stats and rewatch the game. only reason finland won was becuse of lundqvist sucking in the net.
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I keep bringing it on because you had some big names and even then you couldn't beat us. It's relevant. Because a majority of the swedes here are crying about not having their best team etc. Guess what? Finland didn't have their best roster 2019 nor 2021. One player from the NHL and no one from the KHL? comprende? But the team was good. We won the gold 2019 and the silver 2021. Sweden? Not so much. Do you believe you guys would've had a bigger chance if we would've got some of our best players like Sweden did? Let's say Barkov like you guys did get Landeskog? Why not throw in Hintz and Laine and two or three more? Say Heiskanen like you guys got your D´s? Do you honestly believe that additional strength under Jalonen would've favored you guys?
Last but not least, you don't win games only by checking rosters and point production.

The thing is I trust your hockey sense and believe that you get my point. Also, I do believe you are trolling when you go overboard with bashing your home country. Sweden are great, at fifth place in hockey right now.
 
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Svedu said:
I keep bringing it on because you had some big names and even then you couldn't beat us. It's relevant. Because a majority of the swedes here are crying about not having their best team etc. Guess what? Finland didn't have their best roster 2019 nor 2021. One player from the NHL and no one from the KHL? comprende? But the team was good. We won the gold 2019 and the silver 2021. Sweden? Not so much. Do you believe you guys would've had a bigger chance if we would've got some of our best players like Sweden did? Let's say Barkov like you guys did get Landeskog? Why not throw in Hintz and Laine and two or three more? Say Heiskanen like you guys got your D´s? Do you honestly believe that additional strength under Jalonen would've favored you guys?
Last but not least, you don't win games only by checking rosters and point production.

The thing is I trust your hockey sense and believe that you get my point. Also, I do believe you are trolling when you go overboard with bashing your home country. Sweden are great, at fifth place in hockey right now.
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Always bringing up 2019 while disregarding who won gold in 2017 and 2018 is weird. Do you think it is reasonable to see 2019 as evidence of Finland being better while 2017 and 2018 should be deemed irrelevant?

My opinion is that neither 2017, 2018 or 2019 say anything about which team would win a best on best with different rosters in 2022. I don’t have the energy to debate why Sweden or Finland are better again with you, so skip that talk. Just want to know why you think 2017 and 2018 should not be part of the conversation?
 
Yozhik v tumane said:
2019 Team Sweden was certainly a WHC dream team. Pointing to Loui Eriksson to downplay it is ridiculous, there were indeed a bunch of names who would have made a best on best-roster as well on there, including Sweden’s two leaders in points. However, calling it “half Sweden’s best players” is also pretty askew. Even if it would have been half the best players in 2019, it’s a flawed half.

Team was quite heavy on pre- or early-prime young guns with little to no experience of playoff hockey at the time. The fast, young, new NHL losers. A kid like Nylander has grown on me more recently, but he played every bit like the spoiled brat he had a reputation for being versus Finland in 2019. Iirc, Finland tied the game off a Nylander giveaway on some fancy bullshit he would have been benched for in Toronto. The Swedes should have walked home that gold, but they got too arrogant. They went to the WHCs to have fun and play, the Finns were there to compete. Sweden outplayed and outshot the gritty, structured Finns, but were punished for its arrogance, dropping the lead and losing in OT.
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#30
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Kevin Lankinen (G)261995 Helsinki, FIN 187 84LAHL
#45
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Juho Olkinuora (G)311990 Helsinki, FIN 190 91LLiiga
#35
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Veini Vehviläinen (G)251997 Jyväskylä, FIN 183 82LLiiga
DEFENSEMEN
#58
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Jani Hakanpää (D)291992 Kirkkonummi, FIN 197 100RLiiga
#28
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Henri Jokiharju (D)221999 Oulu, FIN 183 88RNHL
#7
2.png
Oliwer Kaski (D)261995 Pori, FIN 190 89RLiiga
#50
2.png
Miika Koivisto (D)311990 Vaasa, FIN 184 88LKHL
#4
2.png
Mikko Lehtonen (D) “A”281994 Turku, FIN 182 89LSHL
#40
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Petteri Lindbohm (D)281993 Helsinki, FIN 190 95LNL
#70
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Niko Mikkola (D)251996 Kiiminki, FIN 193 84LAHL
#55
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Atte Ohtamaa (D)341987 Nivala, FIN 188 92LLiiga
FORWARDS
#12
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Marko Anttila (RW) “C”361985 Lempäälä, FIN 203 104RKHL
#15
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Arttu Ilomäki (C/RW)301991 Tampere, FIN 182 88RLiiga
#24
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Kaapo Kakko (RW)212001 Turku, FIN 190 93LLiiga
#41
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Joel Kiviranta (LW)251996 Vantaa, FIN 180 82LLiiga
#71
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Kristian Kuusela (RW/LW)391983 Seinäjoki, FIN 175 84RLiiga
#91
2.png
Juho Lammikko (C/LW)261996 Noormarkku, FIN 190 92LNHL
#27
2.png
Eetu Luostarinen (C)231998 Siilinjärvi, FIN 190 86LLiiga
#65
2.png
Sakari Manninen (C/LW)301992 Oulu, FIN 172 81LKHL
#20
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Niko Ojamäki (RW)261995 Pori, FIN 181 84RLiiga
#82
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Harri Pesonen (LW)331988 Muurame, FIN 182 90LNL
#25
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Toni Rajala (LW/RW)301991 Parkano, FIN 179 76LNL
#76
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Jere Sallinen (LW/C)311990 Espoo, FIN 187 91LSHL
#19
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Veli-Matti Savinainen (W/C) “A”361986 Espoo, FIN 182 82LKHL
#21
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Juhani Tyrväinen (C/LW)311990 Seinäjoki, FIN 181 87LLiiga
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You see? The only player we had playing in the NHL or KHL back then was Jokiharju? And no matter what, there were no such names like Heiskanen or Rantanen when Sweden had Nylander, Landeskog, Klingberg, Ekholm and Ekman Larsson etc.

Last but not least, let's be honest here. The only thing worth mentioning is if the team won or lost. For me it is. To demand Finland to dominate with mostly SHL and Liiga players would be taking it a bit too far. Also, If I remember correctly? Finland played even better against Canada and Russia.
 
AB13 said:
Always bringing up 2019 while disregarding who won gold in 2017 and 2018 is weird. Do you think it is reasonable to see 2019 as evidence of Finland being better while 2017 and 2018 should be deemed irrelevant?

My opinion is that neither 2017, 2018 or 2019 say anything about which team would win a best on best with different rosters in 2022. I don’t have the energy to debate why Sweden or Finland are better again with you, so skip that talk. Just want to know why you think 2017 and 2018 should not be part of the conversation?
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Are you being real? From 2019 to 2022 there is what? Three years. Sweden haven't won a dime, in any tournament. I do think it's more relevant to focus on these three last years. Otherwise you can bring up your golden generation from 2006 as well.
You have already made it clear where you stand, I´m not interested in debating with you. The person who honestly convinces himself that they have better top4 centers and just as good or better goalies. I can't take you serious.
Last but not least, if you don't want to debate anymore? Why are you insisting on responding? Every single time. Don't reply to my comments? Simple as that.
 
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Svedu said:
Are you being real? From 2019 to 2022 there is what? Three years. Sweden haven't won a dime, in any tournament. I do think it's more relevant to focus on these three last years. Otherwise you can bring up you golden generation from 2006 as well.
You have already made it clear where you stand, I´m not interested in debating with you. The person who honestly convinces himself that they have better top4 centers and just as good or better goalies. I can't take you serious.
Last but not least, if you don't want to debate anymore? Don't reply to my comments? Simple as that.
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The closest thing we have had to Sweden and Finland having their best teams recently is 2018, by far. Think that tournament should be the one to analyse using your reasoning. But whaetever. We are not going to progress in these discussions so I agree to stop them. I will still reply to ridiculous takes that I can’t let stand probably.
 
AB13 said:
The closest thing we have had to Sweden and Finland having their best teams recently is 2018, by far. Think that tournament should be the one to analyse using your reasoning. But whaetever. We are not going to progress in these discussions so I agree to stop them. I will still reply to ridiculous takes that I can’t let stand probably.
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No, not at all. You had Grönborg back then and you don't have him now? We had Marjamäki, the worst coach in our history and now we have our best coach in the history? But you just love to twist and turn things because you can't accept the truth. I feel for you bud.
Aho was 20 years back then. Heiskanen was a Liiga-player. Husso is a late bloomer and no goalie played in the NHL back then? Was Nutivaara the only D in the NHL back then? Believe so. Not sure if he would make it today and he's not even 30 years old yet.
I can give you TT and Rantanen, the only big names and Rantanen was still 21 or 22, not todays Rantanen. But as I´ve stated before, you like to live in the past. No point on arguing with you.
Heiskanen, barely mature enough. If you would be able to read between the lines? You would understand that I respect Sweden but also that I can understand things do go in cycles and can change. That's why I can recognize changes, and yes, I do believe Finland are a bit better right now.
Like how do you reason when buying stocks? "Oh they were good five years ago, must be a sure bet today as well". Not how it works. But keep on convincing yourself, just leave me out of it please. Thank you.
 
Svedu said:
No, not at all. You had Grönborg back then and you don't have him now? We had Marjamäki, the worst coach in our history and now we have our best coach in the history? But you just love to twist and turn things because you can't accept the truth. I feel for you bud.
Aho was 20 years back then. Heiskanen was a Liiga-player. Husso is a late bloomer and no goalie played in the NHL back then? Was Nutivaara the only D in the NHL back then? Believe so. Not sure if he would make it today and he's not even 30 years old yet.
I can give you TT and Rantanen, the only big names and Rantanen was still 21 or 22, not todays Rantanen. But as I´ve stated before, you like to live in the past. No point on arguing with you.
Heiskanen, barely mature enough. If you would be able to read between the lines? You would understand that I respect Sweden but also that I can understand things do go in cycles and can change. That's why I can recognize changes, and yes, I do believe Finland are a bit better right now.
Like how do you reason when buying stocks? "Oh they were good five years ago, must be a sure bet today as well". Not how it works. But keep on convincing yourself, just leave me out of it please. Thank you.
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I don’t think 2018 is particularly relevant. But I don’t think 2019 is more relevant. I was just saying that you can’t use 2019 to hype up your arguments while disregarding 2018 or 2017, for the exact reason you just mentioned. I agree that things are cyclical and players develop. But that also means that 2019 should not be part of the discussions.

I think no previous WC tournament should dramatically affect how you view Sweden and Finland in 2022 honestly. There have been no best on best encounters in years. My 2017 and 2018 argument is just a counterpoint to you constantly bringing up 2019 as some sort of deciding factor.
 
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Best on best Finland is ahead right now. But that aint the same as saying that they would win for sure. But we (Sweden) need a better coach. And thats yesterday.

Something i hate more then being worse then Finland is that Sweden never let everyone get access to the national games for free. How are you going to catch kids from all walks of life when only the ones who can pay can watch.
 
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AB13 said:
I don’t think 2018 is particularly relevant. But I don’t think 2019 is more relevant. I was just saying that you can’t use 2019 to hype up your arguments while disregarding 2018 or 2017, for the exact reason you just mentioned. I agree that things are cyclical and players develop. But that also means that 2019 should not be part of the discussions.

I think no previous WC tournament should dramatically affect how you view Sweden and Finland in 2022 honestly. There have been no best on best encounters in years. My 2017 and 2018 argument is just a counterpoint to you constantly bringing up 2019 as some sort of deciding factor.
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Why cant he? Your fellow countryman said, sweden didnt have A-team 2019
 
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ZEBROA said:
Something i hate more then being worse then Finland is that Sweden never let everyone get access to the national games for free. How are you going to catch kids from all walks of life when only the ones who can pay can watch.
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Wait, what? How can that be? It's criminal. In Finland there's a law that national hockey team games has to be shown on free channels.
 
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Only three things in life are certain: birth, death, and finnish little brother complex posts after placing better than sweden
 
SantosHalper said:
Wait, what? How can that be? It's criminal. In Finland there's a law that national hockey team games has to be shown on free channels.
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Ok now im furious! We should adopt your way of develop players, your coach, that tv law, and the speeding ticket law, and your Sisu.

Hmm maby it is just easier to move there and become a Finn myself.
 
ZEBROA said:
Ok now im furious! We should adopt your way of develop players, your coach, that tv law, and the speeding ticket law, and your Sisu.

Hmm maby it is just easier to move there and become a Finn myself.
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May i recommend few places where you fit right in.
Pietarsaari(Jakobstad)
Uusikaarlepyy(Nykarleby)
Pedersören kunta (Pedersöre)
Luoto(Larsmo)
Kruunupyy(Kronoby)
Mainly swedish speaking towns on west coast, im sure you feel like home.
 
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ZEBROA said:
Ok now im furious! We should adopt your way of develop players, your coach, that tv law, and the speeding ticket law, and your Sisu.

Hmm maby it is just easier to move there and become a Finn myself.
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Hopefully we don’t sink to their lower levels of player development!
 
fredligh said:
Only three things in life are certain: birth, death, and finnish little brother complex posts after placing better than sweden
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Don't forget the SatW comic while at it.

For you Icelanders I can tell you, in Finland we have no complications about our dear neighbor Sweden. If things comes to a pinch, they'll bravely fight to the last Finn, we can always count on that.
 
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fredligh said:
Only three things in life are certain: birth, death, and finnish little brother complex posts after placing better than sweden
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The only one with inferiority complex here should be you and your friend? Always explaining to everyone that you had your R-team and what else. Imagine putting the energy to state the same thing time after time? Creating excuses and feeling the need to do that? Isn't that synonymous with inferiority complex? The precise description of you that is.
Hilarious.
 
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