Swayman Vs The Bruins

[scoopscj]

I could feed my family on 1.5% of his salary. Just saying.

 

[TooManyHumans]

That is wrong.

Especially when his teammates share the same pool of money

It is not his job to worry about other people's contracts.

 

[Score08]

It is not his job to worry about other people's contracts.

It is his job to recognize he’s part of team and see the bigger picture as it relates to his actions and how they affect his teammates.

 

[Fatass]

Subban is a guy who, in the last few years of his career, was top 5 most paid defenseman but played like ass and looked like his summer training was going into as many all-you-can eat buffets as he could find.

His plea in favour of Swayman getting paid makes me even more sympathetic to the Bruins, not less.

PK is an ex player who’s expressing the players’ perspective. We, as fans, almost always side with our clubs, because it’s the constant as players come and go. PK is showing that the players focus their anger at management. They side with each other. Which makes sense considering they are the employees and management are the bosses.

It is his job to recognize he’s part of team and see the bigger picture as it relates to his actions and how they affect his teammates.

That’s true but not when it comes to negotiating a contract. The players are employees (much like a lot of us) and want their fellow workers to get the best deal possible. It raises the bar for everyone.

 

[BM14]

It is his job to recognize he’s part of team and see the bigger picture as it relates to his actions and how they affect his teammates.

I’m sure the NHLPA would love that.

 

[Score08]

I’m sure the NHLPA would love that.

I’m mainly talking about his whining to media and the ‘ infamous’ list .

 

[Peasy]

Prime example why the hard salary cap sucks. It turns fans against their own players because they are not giving up enough money to make the team better.

 

[JPT]

I could feed my family on 1.5% of his salary. Just saying.

Yes professional athletes and sports leagues as a whole make entirely too much money relative to their benefit to society. Swayman isn't negotiating in a world where athletes are compensated relative to their benefit to society, though, so it doesn't matter.

 

[TooManyHumans]

It is his job to recognize he’s part of team and see the bigger picture as it relates to his actions and how they affect his teammates.

So every player ought to take the minimum according to this reasoning.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Yea I don't have a problem with a player taking it personal. It sounds more like he used it a motivation, than he's whining.

Yah. He’s not running to the media and giving them quotes. He’s being asked questions and he’s just being honest.

Yes professional athletes and sports leagues as a whole make entirely too much money relative to their benefit to society. Swayman isn't negotiating in a world where athletes are compensated relative to their benefit to society, though, so it doesn't matter.

Pay is never about worth to society.

 

[BM14]

I’m mainly talking about his whining to media and the ‘ infamous’ list .

You mean the counter-whining to the whining that was started by the GM?

 

[Score08]

So every player ought to take the minimum according to this reasoning.

No ever player ought to consider all possible outcomes, including how his actions can eventually become a detriment to the team. I promise you he’s losing some support in that locker room, even if they don’t publicly admit it.

You mean the counter-whining to the whining that was started by the GM?

You’re terribly uninformed. You need to do some research before you come in with your gotcha hand grenade one liners.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

PK is an ex player who’s expressing the players’ perspective. We, as fans, almost always side with our clubs, because it’s the constant as players come and go. PK is showing that the players focus their anger at management. They side with each other. Which makes sense considering they are the employees and management are the bosses.


That’s true but not when it comes to negotiating a contract. The players are employees (much like a lot of us) and want their fellow workers to get the best deal possible. It raises the bar for everyone.

But that's the thing: You can't raise the bar for anyone in a salary cap system.

The amount players will be collectively making is already determined and it's based on revenues (sharing it). That's the pie players split.

It's not based on contracts awarded, so if you take a disproportionate piece of the pie, it doesn't get bigger. It just means your fellow players will get a smaller piece.

All PK Subban is doing is rooting for more fat, lazy players like himself to get undeserved money while other guys will be underpaid compared to them.

The way for players to improve collectively their conditions is not through individual contract negotiations but through the NHLPA (CBA), or by contributing to making the product as exciting as possible on the ice so it becomes more attractive.

In a no cap system, a no-balls player like Huberdeau signing for twice what he is worth might be good news for the players. But here, it's just bad news for everyone.

 

[BM14]

No ever player ought to consider all possible outcomes, including how his actions can eventually become a detriment to the team. I promise you he’s losing some support in that locker room, even if they don’t publicly admit it.


You’re terribly uninformed. You need to do some research before you come in with your gotcha hand grenade one liners.

You’re terribly uninformed on how contract negotiations/demands in a union environment work.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I could feed my family on 1.5% of his salary. Just saying.

What about Jeremy Jacob’s net worth? That get you a steak dinner or two.

 

[JPT]

Yah. He’s not running to the media and giving them quotes. He’s being asked questions and he’s just being honest.


Pay is never about worth to society.

Yes I am very much aware of that. It was kind of my point.

 

[Armourboy]

Prime example why the hard salary cap sucks. It turns fans against their own players because they are not giving up enough money to make the team better.

Frankly for me the cap has nothing to do with it, I'm not even a Bruins fan. He's simply a guy who is trying to get a check for something his body of work hasn't proven yet.

He's done enough with his play and his potential to maybe get someone to give him 8 million, but he doesn't have the numbers and his potential isn't anywhere close to writing a check for 10+ million a season.

He should get what he can, but there becomes a point where you gotta be realistic. 7-8 million based on his past performance is realistic, 10 million is borderline delusional.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Yes professional athletes and sports leagues as a whole make entirely too much money relative to their benefit to society. Swayman isn't negotiating in a world where athletes are compensated relative to their benefit to society, though, so it doesn't matter.

Yeah athletes should go back to the pre union days where the owners owned them and got every ounce of profit. It’s like people think if athletes make less then some random underpaid blue collar worker has been vindicated….no the billionaire owner just gets more lmao.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Yes I am very much aware of that. It was kind of my point.

With my starting off with yah. I’m just reinforcing your point for the cretins who think otherwise.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

My mistake; I guess we agree that under Boston's current cap situation, demanding/getting $9M instead of taking $8M won’t cost another player their NHL job and salary and won’t materially impact another player’s NHL dream or their ability to feed their family.

No, we can't. Boston has $8.5M in cap space, so Swayman getting $9M vs. $8M absolutely would impact one of the players on the bottom of the roster.

What about Jeremy Jacob’s net worth? That get you a steak dinner or two.

If Boston was notably under the cap, even after a prospective Swagman signing, this might mean something. But they're not.

 

[TS Quint]

I think that's a stupid argument. It's not like today's goalies are incapable of playing 60. It's the GMs and coaches refusing to give goalies those loads these days. Only 3 goalies played over 60 games last season. Go back 15 years and half the goalies in the league played 60+.

This whole situation kind of reminds me of how Rask didn't get games when he had to play behind Thomas and everyone still knew Rask was geat and capable of handling the load. And btw Thomas played less than 60 games both times he won Vezina, because Bruins had a good backup goalie sharing the load. Rask got his 56 million 8 year deal after playing only 36, 23 and 29 games the 3 previous seasons, so there is a precedent for Swayman getting paid despite not topping 44 games and having only 132 games total. Rask had played 138 total and 45 games at most and that was 4 years before he signed his extension. But to be fair Rask got his deal after one of the best playoff performances of the modern era and reaching the Cup finals, so I don't think Swayman is quite at the level Rask was.

When Rask signed his 7M per deal the salary cap was 64.3M, which makes it 10.9% of the cap. Salary cap is now 88M. If Swayman was to get equivalent amount of money that would be 8 years and 76.6M or 9.58M per year.

I think 8x8 is a fair deal at this point of his career if they structure it with loads of signing bonuses.

A wall of text for a cherry picked contract. Now go look at games played for the guys he is really being compared to today. The guys making $8m+ are not part of tandems. If you are paying $8m for a 40 game "starter" you are getting ripped off.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

No, we can't. Boston has $8.5M in cap space, so Swayman getting $9M vs. $8M absolutely would impact one of the players on the bottom of the roster.


If Boston was notably under the cap, even after a prospective Swagman signing, this might mean something. But they're not.

Why is the Bruins cap situation Swaymans problem and where is the line there? Would you be saying the same thing if they only left 3 million in cap space? Oh sorry Jeremy guess you have to sign for 2.5 it’s all we have left!

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Surely reality will set in by the end of the weekend and Swayman will sign a deal before the season starts. He needs to recognize that his business knowledge and musical talent are not going to cut it, so might as well stick to his wheelhouse of hockey. Don't want to ruin the hockey part of this multitalented Renaissance man.

 

[JPT]

Yeah athletes should go back to the pre union days where the owners owned them and got every ounce of profit. It’s like people think if athletes make less then some random underpaid blue collar worker has been vindicated….no the billionaire owner just gets more lmao.

Hang on, are you siding with me, or did you take something from my post that I didnt mean?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why is the Bruins cap situation Swaymans problem and where is the line there? Would you be saying the same thing if they only left 3 million in cap space? Oh sorry Jeremy guess you have to sign for 2.5 it’s all we have left!

For the same reason that Edmonton's cap isn't McDavid's problem, and yet he's probably "only" going to get ~$15M and not 20% x $92.5M on his next deal.

$2.5M is clearly outside the range of "fair" for somebody with Swayman's resumé, as evidenced by what Boston's offers have (reportedly) been. $8M is not. That is where the line is, if you want to put one somewhere.