Post-Game Talk: Stuart S14inner

[GOilers88]

When the Oilers pro scouting repeatedly knocks out home run finds like Vegas does, they can have the benefit of the doubt, but they haven't done anything to earn that benefit of the doubt.

And yeah, that's how that's supposed to work. You don't just magically get the benefit of the doubt when you've done nothing to earn it and to the contrary have failed many times as a pro scouting department (see also: which team though giving Jack Campbell a 5 year contract was a good idea?).

So there's nothing really unreasonable there.

We did also actually try Skinner in the playoffs last year and it was a disaster, so that isn't a hypothetical either. That happened in reality, so I don't think it's unreasonable to say "we better have a plan B this year".

We had an incredible win streak to go into the playoffs last year too and it still meant nothing so, I don't really sway my opinion on these things based on regular season win streaks.

Vegas has had good to great goaltending basically every year they've been in the playoffs too.

I'm fine with Skinner staying, but there better be a reasonable option you can give Knoblaugh if Skinner's game goes sideways again in the post-season.

We have to acknowledge that while Vegas picked up Adin Hill, they didn't exactly go out and acquire him with the intention of him being their guy. He was like the 4th stringer and only got to see the ice because they got decimated by injuries.

 

[GOilers88]

I think the argument, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, is that with proper development they could have reached that level.

I acknowledge they aren't on the same level as guys like MacK, AM, McD or other superstar players,and I don't think they ever would have become much more than they did, but they were all still damn good players, barring Yak.

I think the organization's inability to draft, develop, or acquire any sort of meaningful depth around them was far more detrimental than the fact they weren't superstar, franchise altering #1 talents. You don't need to draft McDavid or Matthews to succeed, it just makes it easier.

 

[Soundwave]

I acknowledge they aren't on the same level as guys like MacK, AM, McD or other superstar players,and I don't think they ever would have become much more than they did, but they were all still damn good players, barring Yak.

I think the organization's inability to draft, develop, or acquire any sort of meaningful depth around them was far more detrimental than the fact they weren't superstar, franchise altering #1 talents. You don't need to draft McDavid or Matthews to succeed, it just makes it easier.

I mean honestly, Calgary probably drafted a more talented player in the 4th round of the RNH draft than the Oilers did with RNH himself at no.1 overall (Gaudreau).

In the end it worked out, Hall/RNH/Yakupov weren't good enough to build a great team around but them not being good enough then led us to McDavid + Draisaitl who are the players we were hoping to get.

It's just unfortunate it took a few extra years to get there. It took a terrible toll on the fan base, no question about that.

 

[WaitingForUser]

I mean honestly, Calgary probably drafted a more talented player in the 4th round of the RNH draft than the Oilers did with RNH himself at no.1 overall (Gaudreau).

In the end it worked out, Hall/RNH/Yakupov weren't good enough to build a great team around but them not being good enough then led us to McDavid + Draisaitl who are the players we were hoping to get.

It's just unfortunate it took a few extra years to get there. It took a terrible toll on the fan base, no question about that.

Nuges offense was all but beat out of him by His coaches in his first 5 years though. When he was drafted he was head and shoulders above the others drafted after him. Had Renney and then Eakins not killed his creativity he might have reached his potential before last year.

 

[MessierII]

I think the argument, which I'm somewhat sympathetic to, is that with proper development they could have reached that level.

I don’t agree with that. The top of the draft isn’t about development you either have it or you don’t. There’s no amount of development that can turn nuge or hall into Matthews and Kane.

 

[McHelpus]

PK doubling down on his laughable comments. Can’t take the heat from Oiler fans.

Why is he yelling though?

 

[Canovin]

I don’t agree with that. The top of the draft isn’t about development you either have it or you don’t. There’s no amount of development that can turn nuge or hall into Matthews and Kane.

Last season
RNH 104 points
Auston 85 points

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

PK doubling down on his laughable comments. Can’t take the heat from Oiler fans.

Lol moving the goal posts as well. Too big of an ego to admit he was wrong.

 

[MessierII]

Last season
RNH 104 points
Auston 85 points

Don’t be that guy. No one even on here thinks Nugent Hopkins is a better player than Austin Matthews. Matthews has his issues especially in the playoffs but he’s greatest goal scorer since Ovechkin.

 

[guymez]

 

[Canovin]

Don’t be that guy. No one even on here thinks Nugent Hopkins is a better player than Austin Matthews. Matthews has his issues especially in the playoffs but he’s greatest goal scorer since Ovechkin.

RNH is also making half of Auston's salary

 

[MessierII]

RNH is also making half of Auston's salary

Sure but nothing I said has anything to do with Salary

 

[K1984]

PK doubling down on his laughable comments. Can’t take the heat from Oiler fans.

Can't say I'm surprised that he chose to move the goalposts to the playoffs after he probably realized that he was made to look like a complete idiot.

Hilariously though, he contradicts himself in this stupid rant. "They only beat shitty teams on this run, and ONLY 6 of them were ahead of them in the standings!" What is it? We only play shitty teams or we are beating teams ahead of us? It's an even split, idiot.

"I EXPECT this out of this team so it isn't impressive" after slagging their defence, saying they're a one man show, and a poor defensive team. Which one is it?

"ONLY 17 of the last 53 goals were from depth players!" No f***ing shit. I guarantee that's the case for pretty much any team in the league.

Guy is just a complete putz.

 

[CROTT]

Or maybe really that rebuild era went sideways because Nugent Hopkins and Yakupov and really even Hall weren't good enough 1st overall pick players. Like RNH and Hall are decent players but they're not superstar/generational talents and Yakupov was a full on bust.

That was really more of the problem with that era.

Not every 1st overall is going to be a generation talent some even bust in the case of Yakupov, Stefan, and then there's the ones who loose interest in hockey Daigle. Generation is about 25 years, and these generational players are supposed to be the best player in a while and having one per draft seams to dilute that status.

Since 2000
2000 - Dipietro Was decent to good, but with injuries never really became established
2001 - Kovalchuk Was a great goal scorer and 1st line winger not generational (Maybe due to ATL being terrible)
2002 - Nash Was a great goal scorer and 1st line winger not generational (Maybe due to Jackets being terrible)
2003 - Fleury Generational Goalie
2004 - Ovechkin Generational scoring winger
2005 - Crosby Generational Center
2006 - E Johnson journeymen defenseman not generational
2007 - P Kane great 1st line playmaking winger, played on a good team (Debatable? IMO not)
2008 - Stamkos High scoring 1st line center, team success (Debatable? IMO not)
2009 - Tavares 1st line center not generational
2010 - Hall top six winger injurys and the decade of darkness not generational
2011 - Nuge top six forward see above not generational
2012 - Yakupov Bust
2013 - Mackinnon 1st line center Generational?
2014 - Ekblad good defensemen not generational
2015 - McDavid Generational
2016 - Matthews pacing with Ovechkin GPG Generational
2017 - Hischier first line forward not generational
2018 - Dahlin good offensive defensemen, but challenging some of the decade of darkness Oilers for the green jacket, Not generational
2019 - J Hughes Kind of early to tell but the offensive game is there
2020 - Lafreniere maybe a top six forward probably not generational

Maybe 6 generational players (Fleury, Crosby, Ovechkin, Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews) in 20 1st overalls.

 

[snag]

.....

Maybe 6 generational players (Fleury, Crosby, Ovechkin, Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews) in 20 1st overalls.

LOL...I was flipping through screens and only saw this line and thought you were talking about Theoren for a moment there. Almost choked on my lunch lol

 

[Drivesaitl]

I do like how the club invites guys like this over for playoff games. Fan favourites and good soldiers of the team during shitty eras are part of the success as well. I eventually see him being inducted into the ring of honour.

I've said it before but a guy like Gagner as an example really deserves success here. Wish Hemsky could too.


For those of us who weren't around in the 80's, Hemsky and Weight were probably the most skilled players we saw in Oiler silks for like 20 years.

Yeah. Maybe I'm missing some points or story or context but why even bother talking about Hemsky when we have the current superstar players. On the present club Hemsky isn't Nuge level.

People say things Like Hemsky was great if he didn't get injured, if he didn't get maimed could be better with generational superstars. Well, people discredit players like Dough Weight who were much better at assessing ice and Smyth who was much better at finishing. Its just odd that people have fixation to say Hemmer and yet don't even think of Taylor Hall who was a better player in every way.

 

[Soundwave]

Not every 1st overall is going to be a generation talent some even bust in the case of Yakupov, Stefan, and then there's the ones who loose interest in hockey Daigle. Generation is about 25 years, and these generational players are supposed to be the best player in a while and having one per draft seams to dilute that status.

Since 2000
2000 - Dipietro - Was decent to good, but with injuries never really became established
2001 - Kovalchuk - Was a great goal scorer and 1st line winger not generational (Maybe due to ATL being terrible)
2002 - Nash - Was a great goal scorer and 1st line winger not generational (Maybe due to Jackets being terrible)
2003 - Fleury Generational Goalie
2004 - Ovechkin Generation scoring winger
2005 - Crosby Generation Center
2006 - E Johnson journeymen defenseman not generational
2007 - P Kane great 1st line playmaking winger, played on a good team (Debatable? IMO not)
2008 - Stamkos High scoring 1st line center, team success (Debatable? IMO not)
2009 - Tavares 1st line center not generational
2010 - Hall top six winger injurys and the decade of darkness not generational
2011 - Nuge top six forward see above not generational
2012 - Yakupov Bust
2013 - Mackinnon 1st line center Generational?
2014 - Ekblad good defensemen not generational
2015 - McDavid Generational
2016 - Matthews pacing with Ovechkin GPG Generational
2017 - Hischier first line forward not generational
2018 - Dahlin good offensive defensemen, but challenging some of the decade of darkness Oilers for the green jacket, Not generational
2019 - J Hughes Kind of early to tell but the offensive game is there
2020 - Lafreniere maybe a top six forward probably not generational

Maybe 6 generational players (Fleury, Crosby, Ovechkin, Mackinnon, McDavid, Matthews) in 20 1st overalls.

Yes but the Oilers management when they basically made the decision to tank, you look at the 2004 onwards ... the whole point of doing a scorched earth rebuild was to get a Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin/Kane/Stamkos tier player. Even at that time Tavares looked like a star in the making no.1 C too.

2003-2009 obviously changed the game.

We went into that rebuild hoping for that tier of player lets be honest, Hall/RNH/Yakupov simply weren't close to being that, we eventually did get the player(s) we were looking for, it just took about 4 years longer than expected.

That 4 year detour a number on some people.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That had to be the craziest turnaround in any game I've ever watched.
The Oilers looked like the AHL team playing an NHL squad for the first 2 periods then looked like a team on a 13 game winning streak in the 3rd. Incredible tbh.

The Oilers were playing against an AHL squad. They only showed up in the 3rd period. Which is fine to me. Theres no point, at all, beating Columbus 10-1. It just doesn't matter.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah. Maybe I'm missing some points or story or context but why even bother talking about Hemsky when we have the current superstar players. On the present club Hemsky isn't Nuge level.

People say things Like Hemsky was great if he didn't get injured, if he didn't get maimed could be better with generational superstars. Well, people discredit players like Dough Weight who were much better at assessing ice and Smyth who was much better at finishing. Its just odd that people have fixation to say Hemmer and yet don't even think of Taylor Hall who was a better player in every way.

In fairness to Hemsky, I think he'd be a pretty good player in today's game.

This is shameful bullshit that was allowed to go unchecked and even cheered for, clear intent to injure someone with repeated head contact



These would be multiple suspensions today. Blatantly trying to drive an opponent's head into the boards because you're too f***ing slow to defend face up.

Yes Doug Weight was better but I don't really recall anyone saying any differently even circa 2006.

 

[TheNumber4]

he probably complained about the same thing over and over again at the front desk and the people working there got sick of him.

“Sir we’ve replaced your towels 11 times today, and they weren’t even used”

 

[snag]

In fairness to Hemsky, I think he'd be a pretty good player in today's game.

This is shameful bullshit that was allowed to go unchecked and even cheered for, clear intent to injure someone with repeated head contact



These would be multiple suspensions today. Blatantly trying to drive an opponent's head into the boards because you're too f***ing slow to defend face up.

Yes Doug Weight was better but I don't really recall anyone saying any differently even circa 2006.

Looking back, it is insane the contrast between then and now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Usually I agree with most things you say. On this though I tend to disagree. Hemsky was an amazing player that was completely derailed by Regher and Boogard taking runs at him for years. A prime Hemsky with Connor or Leon is a hundred point player IMO.

Wouldn't happen. For one because Hemsky was not a primary goal scorer. His career high being 23 goals. For sure Hemsky wouldn't be on a first unit PP here because obviously McDrai would be, and the third forward would be a go to the net guy. I doubt either the current team would have Hemmer as a halfboards player on PP. Nuge is clearly better in the role.

This is key to an understanding of the flaw in your premise. Because in Hemmers top production season of all time he had 77pts but 44 of them were PP pts. Only 35 were EV. Hemmer only got that kind of PP production that season due to Pronger being here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

In fairness to Hemsky, I think he'd be a pretty good player in today's game.

This is shameful bullshit that was allowed to go unchecked and even cheered for, clear intent to injure someone with repeated head contact



These would be multiple suspensions today. Blatantly trying to drive an opponent's head into the boards because you're too f***ing slow to defend face up.

Yes Doug Weight was better but I don't really recall anyone saying any differently even circa 2006.

Oh people constantly talked as if Weight and Smyth were keeping Hemsky down or something. People always had a weakness for highlight reel goals vs players that just make good cerebral plays like Weight, For all the Hemsky applaud so many of his assists were due to players like Smyth finishing. Something Hemsky wasn't actually good at. Only two times Hemsky even hit 20 goals. That Hemsky would get popped in the gourd so many times was due to his own stubborn willingness to eat punishment.

 

[McBeastMode]

Kris Knoblauch earned his 14th straight victory behind the bench, marking the longest win streak by a head coach during their first NHL season.

 

[Soundwave]

Oh people constantly talked as if Weight and Smyth were keeping Hemsky down or something. People always had a weakness for highlight reel goals vs players that just make good cerebral plays like Weight, For all the Hemsky applaud so many of his assists were due to players like Smyth finishing. Something Hemsky wasn't actually good at. Only two times Hemsky even hit 20 goals. That Hemsky would get popped in the gourd so many times was due to his own stubborn willingness to eat punishment.

I mean he has a step on Regher in almost all of those highlights. Those are just flat out dirty plays, we accepted it at the time because it was "part of the game". Today there's at least 3 multi-game suspensions in that one highlight reel alone.

Also honestly shame on the Oilers for not ever tuning or going after Regher for that nonsense.

I'm sorry but after a few of those, it should have been open season on running Kiprusoff or Tanguay or Regher himself or whatever you want to do, if they're going to play that way then they have to expect to get it back.