Post-Game Talk (GBU): Still Not Winnin' for MacKinnon

[jamers]

Whether we get anywhere long term from the bottom of this barrel or not, it's clear we're going to be here for a while.

Sigh.

 

[Beerz]

Here's my forwards in 2 years, based on what I know... Not speculation. I omit players who have no use to me.

xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx
xxxxx-Hodgson-Ennis
Foligno-xxxxxxx-Ott

4th line is not important right now.

Id slot Girgs in between Foligno n Ott




But yeah. We have uncertainty. Obviously I hope Armia is in there. We'll full it with some guys.

But right now.... That's pretty much it.

Id slot Girgs in between Foligno n Ott

 

[1972]

Id slot Girgs in between Foligno n Ott

nvm..

 

[Daz28]

Dude, I think you might be misremembering.... Adam had a good 4 or 5 games. Good, not great.


He had 20 points in 50 games, got sent down and never came back.


It was defiantly a fluke

It's not just the "4 or 5" games, that I'm asking you to explain away. Like was said, he had a good jr. career, good u-20, good 2010-11 in Portland, grabbed 3 NHL goals in 19 games that year, got his shot next year, played real well on the top line, then just out of the blue, was hot garbage in the A for the rest of the season. It was a pretty big precipice, but at one point he was quite a valuable prospect. Now, one holdout later, he's a "fluke"? It's not that simple. He WAS a good hockey player. Now back to the original point, is he worth much. No, but he's only 22. Maybe some GM will view him as just another guy Buffalo ruined, and accept him as part of a different trade(ala Gragnani/Byron).

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Id slot Girgs in between Foligno n Ott

I hope so.

I'm hoping to put Armia on the wing at the top too.

But that's only based on what I know. Not potential.

 

[joshjull]

Totally agree.


The run killed us, because it was a fluke.

But it made it impossible to get to of the regime we had and start fresh....

Instead of doing it right he went all in with a flawed system.

Now, we can fix it. Lotta money coming off the books in the next two years. And 2 buy outs.


I understand nobody wants to suck, but I want nothing to do with resigning guys who have been losers here since 2007. Trade who you can, let the rest walk.

Buy out Leino, and Staffor if you can't trade him.

Actually quite the opposite.

The elevated expectations due to that run coupled with the ****fest that is this season led to something few thought would happen any time soon....Ruff getting fired.

Its likely going to lead to Regier getting the boot as well and a complete wash out of a season. Thus leading to a high draft pick.

So in summary that run set the table for the end of the Ruff/Regier era.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

It's not just the "4 or 5" games, that I'm asking you to explain away. Like was said, he had a good jr. career, good u-20, good 2010-11 in Portland, grabbed 3 NHL goals in 19 games that year, got his shot next year, played real well on the top line, then just out of the blue, was hot garbage in the A for the rest of the season. It was a pretty big precipice, but at one point he was quite a valuable prospect. Now, one holdout later, he's a "fluke"? It's not that simple. He WAS a good hockey player. Now back to the original point, is he worth much. No, but he's only 22. Maybe some GM will view him as just another guy Buffalo ruined, and accept him as part of a different trade(ala Gragnani/Byron).

He's slow. No Consistant effort.

IMO anyone would be good between Vanek and Poms. At least for a while.

 

[joshjull]

nobody. not a single person, has articulated that belief.

it's the straw man you go to, every time this conversation comes up

Actually some do believe that and they frequently reference the Pens as proof.



Also you've constantly ranted over the years that getting rid of Roy would be addition by subtraction. That his mere presence was a detriment to the team having success. How's that theory working out this year?

Or that Ruff is holding various players back and this team is much better than their record. Haven't seen you trumpet that one lately.


I agree the team needs a rebuild. My only disagreement is with the idea that we need to completely gut the roster and suck for years to rebuild into a team with Cup winning potential.

 

[5 Minute Major]

I think we are really lucky the lockout season happened. Of course we all love hockey but could you imagine a whole 82 games of this? At least the pain won't be as long and the house cleaning has started and may be finished, front office-wise, before this off-season starts.

Just thinking that the inevitable is taking place now instead of next December or January is heartening. Another off-season won't be lost trying to add pieces to this mess.

At least I hope so.

 

[Corto]

The elevated expectations due to that run coupled with the ****fest that is this season led to something few thought would happen any time soon....Ruff getting fired.

Remember last season when they got Leino and Ehrhoff they were talking about contending?

THAT'S how much they misjudged this roster. The media too.
Ruff's time was over, I got no issues with that even though I love Lindy.
But firing him should only be the beginning, Regier has to go, they need someone here with a completely different mindset, and they need it ASAP.

 

[joshjull]

Remember last season when they got Leino and Ehrhoff they were talking about contending?

THAT'S how much they misjudged this roster. The media too.
Ruff's time was over, I got no issues with that even though I love Lindy.
But firing him should only be the beginning, Regier has to go, they need someone here with a completely different mindset, and they need it ASAP.

I have no problems with him getting fired either. But many on here falsely believed Ruff was holding this team back.

 

[RuffTimes]

I think we are really lucky the lockout season happened. Of course we all love hockey but could you imagine a whole 82 games of this?

I wouldn't have to imagine. I could just look back to last season.

 

[Royisgone]

Remember last season when they got Leino and Ehrhoff they were talking about contending?

THAT'S how much they misjudged this roster. The media too.
Ruff's time was over, I got no issues with that even though I love Lindy.
But firing him should only be the beginning, Regier has to go, they need someone here with a completely different mindset, and they need it ASAP.

Very true and yet over 50% of this forum wants Regier to stay, according to the recent Poll thread on that subject.

Mind boggling.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Very true and yet over 50% of this forum wants Regier to stay, according to the recent Poll thread on that subject.

Mind boggling.

I think most people see Regier staying as conditional. If he's tearing down the team (trading the Rochester Core), then he can stay. Regier's problem is that he hasn't made timely moves. When he does make moves, they're usually pretty good.

If Regier is keeping the band together, and trying to add some band-aids, then he needs to go.

 

[BuiltTagonTough]

I was all on the keep Regier train for the longest time.

After tonight...he needs to be gona and our new permanent GM has to be in before the trade deadline. He shouldn't be making any meaningful decisions.

Love the guy, sure he's great to have a beer with, made a few really good moves in recent years . Didn't work. Not enough. Let the new blood in.

 

[Zip15]

How do people still have the capacity to be upset? I can't recall being more ambivalent and indifferent.

Lose the expectations. It'll set you free.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I think most people see Regier staying as conditional. If he's tearing down the team (trading the Rochester Core), then he can stay. Regier's problem is that he hasn't made timely moves. When he does make moves, they're usually pretty good.

If Regier is keeping the band together, and trying to add some band-aids, then he needs to go.

If Regier gets off his hands and fixes the fax machine the moves he makes will be good ones. My fear is he makes one move and pats himself on the back for a job well done. We needed 2-3 moves this summer and got 1 middling move. Now we are still 2-3 moves away and he needs to make them before our 2 most valuable assets are spent.

 

[Royisgone]

I think most people see Regier staying as conditional. If he's tearing down the team (trading the Rochester Core), then he can stay. Regier's problem is that he hasn't made timely moves. When he does make moves, they're usually pretty good.

If Regier is keeping the band together, and trying to add some band-aids, then he needs to go.

What you are advocating is roughly equivalent to the "keep him until the end of the year and then can him if we don't make the playoffs" option in the poll. That got 27% of the vote.

The flat out "Keep him" vote is 51.69%.

Why are people so risk averse? So afraid to try new things?

Regier was pulled out of obscurity with little experience in the Islanders organization for one good reason: he was willing to come to Buffalo and work for cheap.

Why so afraid to part ways with him?

I don't get it.

 

[dire wolf]

I'm not.

Sorry to rain on the tank parade but I spend a good chunk of money to go to games. I particularly don't feel like watching this team suck for years in order to return to success. Because I don't believe it has to happen for them to turn return to success and I don;t by into the mythology that losing breeds winning.


Look around, the teams that flounder in the cap era years rarely bounce back. The days of needing 3-4 year to rebuild are gone.

Best post of the thread. I've been saying the bolded part for a long time. If everyone else on this board were right, Edmonton and the Isles should have Cups by now.

The Oilers have had the last three #1 overall picks, plus the #10 pick the year before, plus they managed to snag Eberle at #22 in 2008, plus they had three first round picks in 2007. And yet, they're still sitting in 12th place place in the West.

The Isles have had numerous high picks and have been a train wreck for many years. And it's not all Milbury's fault (although he's largely to blame for many of those years)

Partial re-build is the way to go.

 

[joshjull]

It is no guarantee. It has to be done properly and even in some cases it takes a decade to get to the promised land (see the Wings as the prime example). However, we are paying to see crap now. Is there any real difference if they take the steps that traditionally have worked for teams who have done the process correctly and suck while taking those steps as compared to being bad with a middling lineup? I think there is a big difference, that of being willing to settle for more years of achieving mediocrity or being willing to gamble for more.

But my question is why do they need to take the long methodical approach to this? Whats the point of Pegulabucks and the supposed advantage they give if we're not going to use them? We have avenues to improve the team we've not had with previous owners. But I don't think Darcy is the one to make this happen.

Darcy does not have the stones to move swiftly and decisively. That was my beef with Pegula's retention of him, that too many years of acting in a slow, methodical, risk-averse fashion are not going to dissolve away to reveal a decisive man willing to get things done NOW. And that's part of why I think he needs to go -- he has no idea how to put together a roster.

I agree. I think he needs to go because a faster rebuild can take place with a different GM. There is no way in hell its happening under Regier.


Ironically if you're a proponent of the slow methodical rebuild where you max out your current assets to get picks and prospects. Then Darcy is actually a guy that has done that already and probably could again. What he can't do is adapt to his team's needs on the fly. Once that team (first two post lockout years) had success he couldn't/wouldn't add the missing pieces to close the deal on a Cup (obviously there are no guarantees) and chose to be patient instead. But he did rebuild from the bankruptcy years and had a very good stable of talent that Ruff molded into one of the best teams in the NHL.

 

[Der Jaeger]

What you are advocating is roughly equivalent to the "keep him until the end of the year and then can him if we don't make the playoffs" option in the poll. That got 27% of the vote.

The flat out "Keep him" vote is 51.69%.

Why are people so risk averse? So afraid to try new things?

Regier was pulled out of obscurity with little experience in the Islanders organization for one good reason: he was willing to come to Buffalo and work for cheap.

Why so afraid to part ways with him?

I don't get it.

What I'm advocating isn't what you wrote. You're making that connection. I'm not. I meant what I wrote originally. If Regier rebuilds, keep him. If not, he needs to go. Has nothing to do with the playoffs.

Nobody's risk adverse; no one is saying they're afraid to try anything new. Read the threads. Fans desperately want something new with this organization.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

How do people still have the capacity to be upset? I can't recall being more ambivalent and indifferent.

Lose the expectations. It'll set you free.

I don't need any expectations to be mad at that team. It's my favorite team and I'm almost 100% confident I care more than they do. Tank away but tank because you suck not because you are too lazy to back check or to air brained to cover their man. I could tolerate sucking through a rebuild if it looked liked they were giving an effort. But this **** is bananas, B-L-O-W-I-T-U-P bananas.

 

[Der Jaeger]

How do people still have the capacity to be upset? I can't recall being more ambivalent and indifferent.

Lose the expectations. It'll set you free.

Same here. I expect the Sabres to tailspin for the rest of the season. The shortened season leaves little room for the late-season runs that we typically see from the Sabres.

 

[joshjull]

How do people still have the capacity to be upset? I can't recall being more ambivalent and indifferent.

Lose the expectations. It'll set you free.

Its pretty easy to detach yourself when you have no financial or real time commitment to the team. thats not meant to be a shot. But you can just stop watching or flip through channels while they are sucking it up and peridodically check back in. Some of us pay to be tortured by them in person. Its a different situation.

Imagine paying a large sum of money you can't get back to watch something you know will suck.

I actually do disconnect to a certain extent but sometimes at the games it can be maddening.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I don't get this partial rebuild. Partial rebuilds are for teams who have aging superstars that need to shift to a new core. We don't have a new core to shift to and on top of that our "stars" won't draw nearly a big enough return to fix the holes.

ROR doesn't address depth scoring or defense (he would help but he doesn't play D)

Ennis and Stafford don't have enough value to return a cup worthy piece.

The defense has spent the better part of their time since 2008 failing at finding their ***** with 7 pairs of hands

Miller Poms and Vanek are coming up on contracts

Any moves made that won't cost us an irreplaceable player in the near future will cost us from our prospect pool and significant moves (which are needed) would probably deplete the farm for years.

I don't see where you come up with the assets to fix this team unless you are sacrificing certainty for greater potential and if you pull the trigger on those deals you might as well call it for 2 seasons and rebuild properly. Vanek, Poms, Myers can become a half dozen top flight picks and prospects. I'm done gambling on this roster. We gambled when Briere and Drury left and lost then again we gambled going into last season and then again going into this one. There is talent but the Titanic was 90% a great ship and it sank hard too.