Rumor: Steve "Dangle" : Wheeler out of Winnipeg, will probably get bought out

[Eyeseeing]

Wheeler is a lot of things but a quitter is not one of them.
TNSE ain’t buying him out either.

 

[broc]

Sounded really stupid until I checked his contract terms. 5 teams trade list. Yeah that does it, probably can't even trade him even at 50% if he's smart with his 5 picks. What an idiotic contract by cheveldayoff.

To be fair, these are the things small market Canadian teams like Winnipeg have to do to entice high end players to stay.
It’s not idiotic, it’s necessary.

Winnipeg was a top team, pseudo-contender for a few years. So you make concessions to keep your team together and hope for the best.
We’re not the New York Rangers or Tampa Bay Lightning where players just prefer to go. We’re Siberia. It is extra difficult for our team in this regard.

if you look at Winnipeg over their now closed competitive window, the vast majority of the guys here were drafted by us. We end up signing leftover type free agents.

so I think “idiotic“ is strong word, Chevy has done good work for this team, although it seems his time should maybe be coming to an end in the next season or so.

 

[kylbaz]

This was already rumored somewhere. This man child has no inside scoop

 

[Marioesque]

Winnipeg was a top team, pseudo-contender for a few years. So you make concessions to keep your team together and hope for the best.

They made the wrong choice at that crucial time and extended Wheeler and alienated Laine. They chose to put their chips in with the veteran and predictably things went south pretty fast for the whole team. Tens of millions for a total boat anchor contract.

 

[12ozPapa]

Welp, seeing Dangle just ruined my day, thanks. Guy is an assclown.

 

[majormajor]

Tens of millions for a total boat anchor contract.

This is so overstated. Blake Wheeler has been a pretty good player the entire time. He's easily outproduced Laine over the last three years.

 

[Marioesque]

This is so overstated. Blake Wheeler has been a pretty good player the entire time. He's easily outproduced Laine over the last three years.

Probably, Laine has missed quite a few games over the last 3 years in a worse team than Wheeler. So good usage of "outproduced" there as some sort of indicator of good head office decision. Wheeler was outpaid too during that period. Laine of course out paces Wheeler in the last 2 seasons, and is a different level player.

I'm convinced Jets future would have been very different without that Wheeler extension. The window would have been bigger, but they wanted to win with Wheeler or thought they'd get there somehow. Since then he's lost his captaincy, a few steps and affected the locker room negatively. While getting paid like a difference maker. I would not have paid much money for the difference he makes, in totality.

 

[broc]

They made the wrong choice at that crucial time and extended Wheeler and alienated Laine. They chose to put their chips in with the veteran and predictably things went south pretty fast for the whole team. Tens of millions for a total boat anchor contract.

well, many players are signed a year or 2 too long in their mid/late 20’s- that’s how you keep them. thats the nature of the business.
You don’t let top players go like that in the middle your competitive window, because you wanted them a year or 2 less. you push your chips in when you think your chance is strongest and deal with the crap of it later. This happens all the time.

“total boat anchor contract”, lol okay.

I’m no fan of Wheeler even, or the dressing room energy we‘ve heard about the last few seasons.. but the majority of that contract has been market value, and he’s at the very least been a productive player, and gave our franchise loyalty for all his best years. So I have no problem with a year or 2 too long for a guy who did that for us. *shrug*

Laine was quickly becoming a malcontent. I have no issue with him being traded. He hasn’t turned out to be a better player since he left either.

He’s another “Alex Kovalev” type player, oozing extreme talent but not bringing consistent effort or playing a team game.

 

[Flair Hay]

Aging curve is out there for all to see. Here's one.

Age and Decay

Visualizations and predictions for understanding hockey.

hockeyviz.com

You could look at Wheelers impact during that contract. I don't think he was worth the cap hit during any of the seasons. Maybe the first season?

Maybe he wasn't worth the 8.5 but I don't think he was very far off either? The guy was a point a game for the first 3 of 5 years... in hindsight the smart move would have probably been to let him play out 2019 and let him walk.

But we were trying to win a Cup and he was our top player and captain.

 

[Flair Hay]

They made the wrong choice at that crucial time and extended Wheeler and alienated Laine. They chose to put their chips in with the veteran and predictably things went south pretty fast for the whole team. Tens of millions for a total boat anchor contract.

To be fair, the team going from really good to okay coincided with losing 5 of their top 6 defenseman in one off season. Some were leaving regardless, but Buff we never recovered from. It wasn't Wheeler sucking that hurt us - our defense and depth took huge hits.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Wheeler with a little retention for Foligno

 

[majormajor]

Probably, Laine has missed quite a few games over the last 3 years in a worse team than Wheeler. So good usage of "outproduced" there as some sort of indicator of good head office decision. Wheeler was outpaid too during that period. Laine of course out paces Wheeler in the last 2 seasons, and is a different level player.

I'm convinced Jets future would have been very different without that Wheeler extension. The window would have been bigger, but they wanted to win with Wheeler or thought they'd get there somehow. Since then he's lost his captaincy, a few steps and affected the locker room negatively. While getting paid like a difference maker. I would not have paid much money for the difference he makes, in totality.

Okay but if Laine is outproduced by a guy on a "total boat anchor" contract, who is actually paid less than he is, then that doesn't sound like you would like Laine's contract.

 

[Legion34]

Steve Dangle.

I miss the old days when you could only post legit sources. Now anyone with twitter is seen as an insider.

????? He is Chris Johnston and Allan Walsh boss

 

[lomiller1]

Pretty much knew this was coming, there was absolutely no way they were offloading that contract even @ 50% retention without adding a pick or something to offload it.

Wheeler is the 15th highest scoring RW in the NHL over the last 3 seasons. $4.2 million for a 1st line RW should be attractive to a lot of teams.

 

[Marioesque]

well, many players are signed a year or 2 too long in their mid/late 20’s- that’s how you keep them. thats the nature of the business.
You don’t let top players go like that in the middle your competitive window, because you wanted them a year or 2 less. you push your chips in when you think your chance is strongest and deal with the crap of it later. This happens all the time.

“total boat anchor contract”, lol okay.

I’m no fan of Wheeler even, or the dressing room energy we‘ve heard about the last few seasons.. but the majority of that contract has been market value, and he’s at the very least been a productive player, and gave our franchise loyalty for all his best years. So I have no problem with a year or 2 too long for a guy who did that for us. *shrug*

Laine was quickly becoming a malcontent. I have no issue with him being traded. He hasn’t turned out to be a better player since he left either.

He’s another “Alex Kovalev” type player, oozing extreme talent but not bringing consistent effort or playing a team game.

Wheeler wasn't in his mid 20s when he made the extension. He was what, 32?

Laine has grown every season as a player but he hasn't had many consecutive games between different injuries, his dads death, covid etc. Hopefully that's behind him but you never know. If Laine plays a full season, you'll get to see the difference, if the 10 years between isn't enough. Laine plays a "team game" and brings effort but he does get injured. If that continues as a trend, then he will never reach that potential. If he stays healthy, he's a superstar.

There isn't one aspect of the game that Wheeler is better at. They're close at faceoffs maybe.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Wheeler is the 15th highest scoring RW in the NHL over the last 3 seasons. $4.2 million for a 1st line RW should be attractive to a lot of teams.

He's not a top-line winger, he just doesn't have the stamina anymore. Somewhere where he can play 12-15 minutes per night, he'll be fine. Paying $4.2M for a third line, PP2 specialist RW is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Marioesque]

Okay but if Laine is outproduced by a guy on a "total boat anchor" contract, who is actually paid less than he is, then that doesn't sound like you would like Laine's contract.

During that time Wheeler was paid more.

I like Laine's contract. He's a legit 1st line player and the best player in the team when he is playing. It could be longer term though. If he stays healthy, he'll be extremely expensive to extend in 3 years.

 

[jetsforever]

Aging curve is out there for all to see. Here's one.

Age and Decay

Visualizations and predictions for understanding hockey.

hockeyviz.com

You could look at Wheelers impact during that contract. I don't think he was worth the cap hit during any of the seasons. Maybe the first season?

Generally you have to pay players more for what they've done in the past to keep them though, that's just how it works
A slight overpayment is fine and I don't think most Jets fans have been unhappy with that contract

 

[Drew311]

Nobody wants this guy for a song around 4M? Kind of hard to believe.

Without Hellebuyck next season they won't be close to winning a cup, so why not just trade him, retain for a season and avoid the ugly separation via buyout? Plus they avoid the second year cap hit that would come from a buyout.

 

[Marioesque]

Generally you have to pay players more for what they've done in the past to keep them though, that's just how it works
A slight overpayment is fine and I don't think most Jets fans have been unhappy with that contract

That is true. It is also true that Jets didn't have to extend Wheeler at that age to a contract with that term and money. He had great trade value then. Now Jets will have to retain if he moves to any of his chosen 5.

Some argued it was going to backfire back then, but you're likely right that majority of fans were fine with it considering he was the captain and a long time player for the team. Majority can get things wrong.

 

[lomiller1]

He's not a top-line winger,

Again. 15th highest scoring RW in the NHL over the last 3 seasons...

he just doesn't have the stamina anymore

I don't agree with this at all. In fact one of the major issues in the Jets locker room has been Wheeler wanting everyone else to put in the level of effort and commitment to fitness he does. (The issue on Wheeler is is that he did so in an adversarial way under the watch of a coach who had double standards for how players are handled. )

 

[majormajor]

During that time Wheeler was paid more.

I like Laine's contract. He's a legit 1st line player and the best player in the team when he is playing. It could be longer term though. If he stays healthy, he'll be extremely expensive to extend in 3 years.

If he's producing about the same points per game as the guy on a "total boat anchor" contract I can't see why you would want him to get paid much more. Wheeler is a very consistent player and his defense isn't bad (that would be Scheifele and Connor that don't defend).

 

[jetsforever]

He's not a top-line winger, he just doesn't have the stamina anymore. Somewhere where he can play 12-15 minutes per night, he'll be fine. Paying $4.2M for a third line, PP2 specialist RW is a bit of a stretch.

You jumped pretty quickly from top-line to third-line
He's at least a #2RW (who just put up 55 in 72)

 

[Osakahaus]

I hope the team that signs him understands all the baggage that comes in the locker room with him

 

[Marioesque]

If he's producing about the same points per game as the guy on a "total boat anchor" contract I can't see why you would want him to get paid much more. Wheeler is a very consistent player and his defense isn't bad (that would be Scheifele and Connor that don't defend).

If the fact that Laine is 25 years old and just entering his prime years doesn't persuade you that Laine's contract is better, then it's just statistical comparison right now. Laine is improving, Wheeler is declining.

Laine is producing more. His last 2 seasons or around 100+ games has been about PPG pace. Wheeler had 55 pts last season in 72 games, Laine had 52 pts in 55 games.