Post-Game Talk: Steelcroft: (Not) Far From Home

[Cloned]

The difference in how the defense has held the blueline these last three games from how they simply gave up that space all season long under Tippett is striking. I guess it was Tippett's system after all. Maybe Tippett was telling us something when he called low-danger shots "turnovers." He must have thought that giving up the space under the blue line would encourage the attacker to give up more "turnovers." It would be a smart idea if it weren't so f***ing dumb.

I’m not sure what he was coaching this year.

Third forward high and gap control are obvious and simple concepts that every competent coach implements in some form. That he decided to ignore these details is perplexing.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Because this isn't apparent to a vet player getting paid this much money? That he shouldn't have a horrid GA and should get back once in awhile? People are cutting the players the slack. I get it, we have to believe in the players, but I'll tell you that Hyman was EASILY replaced in Toronto and they don't miss his one zone play one iota. WE got jobbed, and we're massively overpaying for a player that doesn't score as much as we'd hoped and that gets outscored even playing with the best player in hockey.

Doesn’t score as much as we’d have hoped? He has 15 goals in 40 games… you are truly on mars this morning.

 

[Klimando Kostani]

Because this isn't apparent to a vet player getting paid this much money? That he shouldn't have a horrid GA and should get back once in awhile? People are cutting the players the slack. I get it, we have to believe in the players, but I'll tell you that Hyman was EASILY replaced in Toronto and they don't miss his one zone play one iota. WE got jobbed, and we're massively overpaying for a player that doesn't score as much as we'd hoped and that gets outscored even playing with the best player in hockey.

Again, I was exaggerating for fun but since you really want to take this to heart, I'll share.

He said specifically how the new coaches gave a different strategy and expectation that has lead to a more effective defensive system, so far.

Tippet had years to practice, train, and implement any defensive strategy he wanted.

Whatever tippet was drilling obviously was horrible, which is why I criticised even back when we were winning. You can be counted among those who told me things like "this group will never be a defensive club, we have to win in our style"

But relying in two players to be in on 3 of 4 required goals every single game was a shit strategy, and certainly won't win many playoff series. We are a much better team without Tipp.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lol sure keeping looking at games whatever way you want to try and support your narrative. Foegs sucks because San Jose didn’t try… lol right.

Has he been a good Edmonton Oiler? I mean yank my chain, you know that to this point he's been pretty limited. Hopefully he starts to be a good or useful player. He only played 10mins last night so the coach he's brown nosing ain't convinced either.

I mean this is a vet playre in prime, turning 26 in a month, that has played a lot in the NHL. He shouldn't be remedial.

 

[Cloned]

So far. Its all we got. I'm glad your able to believe that this roster that is loaded with indifferent work habits is going to remain committed to regimen. At this moment in time I'm ye of less faith. Even a coach like McLellan had one season results here. Maybe Woodcroft is the best coach we've had in awhile. Its possible.

There will be bumps in the road, I’m sure. But I don’t think it’s arguable that Woodcroft isn’t a better coach than Tippett. And the margin seems significant tbh.

 

[soothsayer]

I’m not sure what he was coaching this year.

Third forward high and gap control are obvious and simple concepts that every competent coach implements in some form. That he decided to ignore these details is perplexing.

It was insanely frustrating. I remember having conversations on here with other posters to the tune of, "wtf are they giving up so much of that ice?!?!," literally the first game of the season. And it just kept happening. Eventually Tippett was asked about it, and he said that it was due to the defensemen not having enough confidence in their skating, which was obviously not true.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Has he been a good Edmonton Oiler? I mean yank my chain, you know that to this point he's been pretty limited. Hopefully he starts to be a good or useful player. He only played 10mins last night so the coach he's brown nosing ain't convinced either.

I mean this is a vet playre in prime, turning 26 in a month, that has played a lot in the NHL. He shouldn't be remedial.

Only ten minutes and still directly contributed to nuges goal. Not bad. Not sure why you think his 11 min of ice team means anything considering he produced with the time he was given.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Doesn’t score as much as we’d have hoped? He has 15 goals in 40 games… you are truly on mars this morning.

So easily satisfied. Marzipan in Calgary has 24 goals playing with worse players. You know goal scoring among topsix players is way up this year right? 73 players have scored as many goals as Hyman has this season and Hyman is -4, somehow, playing with the best player in the world and getting set up constantly. The expectation here is playing with generational talent on top line, and on top unit PP, that Hyman would score 30 and be at least an outscorer.

Man, we don't expect much from players here. Hyman is a one dimensional player's who's only dimension is scoring. He ain't much else.

 

[Cloned]

It was insanely frustrating. I remember having conversations on here with other posters to the tune of, "wtf are they giving up so much of that ice?!?!," literally the first game of the season. And it just kept happening. Eventually Tippett was asked about it, and he said that it was due to the defensemen not having enough confidence in their skating, which was obviously not true.

Honestly it sounds like Playfair was just as big of a issue as Tippett. There were some failures of trust building there between player and coach.

 

[Cloned]

So easily satisfied. Marzipan in Calgary has 24 goals playing with worse players. You know goal scoring among topsix players is way up this year right? 73 players have scored as many goals as Hyman has this season and Hyman is -4, somehow, playing with the best player in the world and getting set up constantly. The expectation here is playing with generational talent on top line, and on top unit PP, that Hyman would score 30 and be at least an outscorer.

Man, we don't expect much from players here. Hyman is a one dimensional player's who's only dimension is scoring. He ain't much else.

He PKs too.

(Yes, the PK numbers aren’t good this year, but I’m willing to see how Manson can improve that too. They’re lining up 4 at the blue line for a change already.)

 

[Drivesaitl]

Again, I was exaggerating for fun but since you really want to take this to heart, I'll share.

He said specifically how the new coaches gave a different strategy and expectation that has lead to a more effective defensive system, so far.

Tippet had years to practice, train, and implement any defensive strategy he wanted.

Whatever tippet was drilling obviously was horrible, which is why I criticised even back when we were winning. You can be counted among those who told me things like "this group will never be a defensive club, we have to win in our style"

But relying in two players to be in on 3 of 4 required goals every single game was a shit strategy, and certainly won't win many playoff series. We are a much better team without Tipp.

Team was good under Tippett for two seasons. They weren't good enough this season.

I didn't say that verbatim. Maybe something you construed in those lines. I'm still not convinced that this roster will have the compete and drive and team concept to do all it takes to get through a playoff round. lots of work left.

3 games here doesn't mean anything other than coaching bump so far. WE've played a couple teams that aren't scoring much. Need more time to assess.

Coaching isn't linear. You don't just get endless increased results. Few coaches do. Most have shelf lives. It took one year for this team to suck under McLellan. It took months or weeks for it to suck under other coaches like Eakins and Hitch. Tippett had this team at least playing playoff bound hockey for two complete seasons. Thats not "horrible"

 

[tardigrade81]

So easily satisfied. Marzipan in Calgary has 24 goals playing with worse players. You know goal scoring among topsix players is way up this year right? 73 players have scored as many goals as Hyman has this season and Hyman is -4, somehow, playing with the best player in the world and getting set up constantly. The expectation here is playing with generational talent on top line, and on top unit PP, that Hyman would score 30 and be at least an outscorer.

Man, we don't expect much from players here. Hyman is a one dimensional player's who's only dimension is scoring. He ain't much else.

Not saying I disagree with you Drive, but wasn’t the point of bringing him in to help with the scoring and take the load off our two stars? Don’t think any of us were expecting a ton else. Whether we paid too much or not, I still think Hyman is an excellent player. He has looked very good the last two games. It’s exactly what we need for a playoff series. Relying on McDavid and Drai constantly… we have seen how that has paid off. Now adding Kane who has 3 goals in 6 or 7 games. We finally have a bit of depth at scoring now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He PKs too.

(Yes, the PK numbers aren’t good this year, but I’m willing to see how Manson can improve that too. They’re lining up 4 at the blue line for a change already.)

Debrusk was saying on the broadcast that Hyman "Is a solid defensive player" and I lol. You'd never know it from his time here, and like I said the Leafs haven't missed him in the slightest. We're paying a lot and not getting even a complete player. I mean if we were just going one dimensional player I'd take a Hoffman or Toffoli over this. I mean we gotta hope..

 

[McBooya42]

He was a worst on team -15 before that. Should I just ignore that. You think two games against poor clubs was very indicative? The Oilers outscored the opposition handily, no thanks to stone hands Foegele. He did get an assist last night which is almost amazing, but also a GA.

TRust me its going to take more time for the player to win back enthusiasm for him being here. Right now its looking like another WTF Hollland contract.

I wouldn't call LA a poor club. They were in a playoff spot before we beat them last night. Are we a poor club?

NVM, you meant SJ. Apologies.

 

[Llamamoto]

So easily satisfied. Marzipan in Calgary has 24 goals playing with worse players. You know goal scoring among topsix players is way up this year right? 73 players have scored as many goals as Hyman has this season and Hyman is -4, somehow, playing with the best player in the world and getting set up constantly. The expectation here is playing with generational talent on top line, and on top unit PP, that Hyman would score 30 and be at least an outscorer.

Man, we don't expect much from players here. Hyman is a one dimensional player's who's only dimension is scoring. He ain't much else.

He's on pace for over 30 goals and he's one of our best PKers.

And I know you're not a fan of advanced stats, but this is his first time since his rookie season that he's underproduced compared to his xGF. The entire top line is getting really unlucky at even strength, and when those numbers start to balance out his +/- will start to look a lot better.

Although I will say, using +/- to judge a player's defensive capability is not a good idea lol.

 

[McTonyBrar]

RNH also complimenting on the new simple systems and mindset. I think the players had tuned Tippett out very early this year.

Think that was the third player to say something like that about the coach ahaha

 

[McShogun99]

He PKs too.

(Yes, the PK numbers aren’t good this year, but I’m willing to see how Manson can improve that too. They’re lining up 4 at the blue line for a change already.)

About time. It’s was practically a guarantee that the other team would gain the zone when Tippet was coaching.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not saying I disagree with you Drive, but wasn’t the point of bringing him in to help with the scoring and take the load off our two stars? Don’t think any of us were expecting a ton else. Whether we paid too much or not, I still think Hyman is an excellent player. He has looked very good the last two games. It’s exactly what we need for a playoff series. Relying on McDavid and Drai constantly… we have seen how that has paid off. Now adding Kane who has 3 goals in 6 or 7 games. We finally have a bit of depth at scoring now.

Kane of course is much greater value and much better player. Hyman has to be an outscorer here to be of appreciable benefit. Its a non starter being a minus player while playing with the top production player in hockey. The topline has to outscore. By quite a lot for us to go anywhere. We're loading up the top line. They should be putting up great numbers.

Hopefully the club turns the season around. WE need a playoff result this season, winning at least a round. Anything else and I could there being problems with the club down the road.

 

[tardigrade81]

Team was good under Tippett for two seasons. They weren't good enough this season.

I didn't say that verbatim. Maybe something you construed in those lines. I'm still not convinced that this roster will have the compete and drive and team concept to do all it takes to get through a playoff round. lots of work left.

3 games here doesn't mean anything other than coaching bump so far. WE've played a couple teams that aren't scoring much. Need more time to assess.

Coaching isn't linear. You don't just get endless increased results. Few coaches do. Most have shelf lives. It took one year for this team to suck under McLellan. It took months or weeks for it to suck under other coaches like Eakins and Hitch. Tippett had this team at least playing playoff bound hockey for two complete seasons. Thats not "horrible"

I think we have enough scoring personally. On paper we need work, but I think we can best a team like Calgary. Hell we have beat them twice earlier this year. The question in my mind is can we have good goaltending like we have the last 3 games (minus Smith’s first goal last night) If we can get solid goaltending, we could take a team like Calgary, or Anaheim or LA. If we finish in a wild card position and play Colorado first round obviously it isn’t going to go well. I am not expecting this team to go to the Cup this year, but I am expecting to make a run to the second round and playing competitive hockey in the playoffs.

 

[Klimando Kostani]

Team was good under Tippett for two seasons. They weren't good enough this season.

I didn't say that verbatim. Maybe something you construed in those lines. I'm still not convinced that this roster will have the compete and drive and team concept to do all it takes to get through a playoff round. lots of work left.

3 games here doesn't mean anything other than coaching bump so far. WE've played a couple teams that aren't scoring much. Need more time to assess.

Coaching isn't linear. You don't just get endless increased results. Few coaches do. Most have shelf lives. It took one year for this team to suck under McLellan. It took months or weeks for it to suck under other coaches like Eakins and Hitch. Tippett had this team at least playing playoff bound hockey for two complete seasons. Thats not "horrible"

Of course it isnt verbatim.

No, Tippets defensive strategies were not good for two years. They have been depressing and frustrating the whole time.

Your whole, well we have to wait a year schtick works both ways though. So if you want to stop criticising the change and picking a part things like Hymans plus minus under a different coach, we can all stop trying to explain why that coach sucked and why this one seems to be implementing a far superior strategy almost instantly.

We could, Ya know, enjoy this.

 

[tardigrade81]

Kane of course is much greater value and much better player. Hyman has to be an outscorer here to be of appreciable benefit. Its a non starter being a minus player while playing with the top production player in hockey. The topline has to outscore. By quite a lot for us to go anywhere. We're loading up the top line. They should be putting up great numbers.

Hopefully the club turns the season around. WE need a playoff result this season, winning at least a round. Anything else and I could there being problems with the club down the road.

Now that I 100 percent agree with. Another first round exit doesn’t result in a decently successful season. Stay out of the wild card and we should be competitive against flames or Vegas. Don’t want to play a team like Colorado first round, granted we will have to play them eventually if we want to get to the end goal.

 

[Juxta Position]

He was a worst on team -15 before that. Should I just ignore that. You think two games against poor clubs was very indicative? The Oilers outscored the opposition handily, no thanks to stone hands Foegele. He did get an assist last night which is almost amazing, but also a GA.

TRust me its going to take more time for the player to win back enthusiasm for him being here. Right now its looking like another WTF Hollland contract.

I have a bit of a soft spot for Foegele as he reminds me of guy I used to play hockey with years ago. That guy had a fantastic work ethic and would dig in the corners and in front of the net like nobodies business, problem was he had hands made of concrete. We nicknamed this guy "shovels" for his ability to dig in the corners and his knack to be able shovel loose pucks in to the net occasionally. Foegele is the NHL version of that guy to me, so henceforth I will refer to Foegele as "shovels"

 

[5 14 6 1]

So easily satisfied. Marzipan in Calgary has 24 goals playing with worse players. You know goal scoring among topsix players is way up this year right? 73 players have scored as many goals as Hyman has this season and Hyman is -4, somehow, playing with the best player in the world and getting set up constantly. The expectation here is playing with generational talent on top line, and on top unit PP, that Hyman would score 30 and be at least an outscorer.

Man, we don't expect much from players here. Hyman is a one dimensional player's who's only dimension is scoring. He ain't much else.

Holy man you're quickly heading to the ignore list... What hockey player are you watching??? Hyman PKs amd is by far our best winger at winning battles and getting pucks out.

Mangiapane is also about to get PAID and has a crazy sh%.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He's on pace for over 30 goals and he's one of our best PKers.

And I know you're not a fan of advanced stats, but this is his first time since his rookie season that he's underproduced compared to his xGF. The entire top line is getting really unlucky at even strength, and when those numbers start to balance out his +/- will start to look a lot better.

Although I will say, using +/- to judge a player's defensive capability is not a good idea lol.

Hyman is pretty outside on scoring 30 this year. Limited runway left to get another 15. Yes I understand pace, but results are 15 so far with only 35 games remaining.

Hyman has not been good on our pk. WE've been using him, he hasn't been very good at it. For the Hymans GFON/60 EV is high, and hurting the team. McD is a very agressive forward. More than a Center typically is. So that Pulju ideally covers for McD. When Hyman is not seeing Pulju his numbers are bad. Pulju is the one stitching the topline togetther or its GA this season would be worse. Pulju, McD, Have both been better in own zone play this season than Hyman. Considering Hyman was specifically been brought in to be a high priced support player for McD, his performance has been disappointing. We have to hope it gets better.

 

[Sanchez]

To think that it''s just a lucky coincidence that we got Woodcroft.

If Holland made the change in summer, guarantee it's some dinosaur that likely has no idea how to coach in 2020s NHL.

Imagine if Holland did it back in January when we had 2 games in 2 weeks!