SSM Greyhounds 2024 - 25 Season Thread, Part I

[dirty12]

Idk, to each their own. My point was keeping someone for thr future, instead of going for it this year. If they think Hopkins can't be upgraded, keep him and run with him.

Ersonally, I'd look at sending a package of gibson, allard and shenkle to Kingston for Hopkins and picks.

you would be getting Heyes in return, and Kingston is very unlikely to kick local OA goalie and family friend of the owner to the curb; so, no to Schenkel and no picks in return. Maybe add Cloutier or Mignosa for Vellaris and picks; then it's one stop shopping for the frontenacs.

 

[DWI Dale]

It's less about not giving a piece of the team's future but more about also not giving up a big piece of their present. Hopkins is Kingston's 2C and is just shy of PPG.


The biggest NCAA fish Kingston has is Matthew Manza - PPG and rookie of the year for the entire CJHL last year as a 16 year old, moved out to the BCHL and after missing the first couple months has 2 pts in 7 games, committed to Ohio State for 25-26.

I do think Weir needs a change of scenery but his value is at the absolute best equivalent to a 4th.

Totally fair, although I'd argue a 17 year old centering your 2nd line isn't enough to win a championship.

That's just my 2 cents but I'm a firm believer that contenders are built around 19 and 20 year olds with "neckbeards", and that when the ice shrinks and things get more physical a 17 year old centering the 2nd line won't cut it.

 

[DWI Dale]

Ersonally, I'd look at sending a package of gibson, allard and shenkle to Kingston for Hopkins and picks.

2 overagers would be a tough deal to make, but would certainly give the Fronts some "win now" firepower.

 

[Houndzfan20]

you would be getting Heyes in return, and Kingston is very unlikely to kick local OA goalie and family friend of the owner to the curb; so, no to Schenkel and no picks in return. Maybe add Cloutier or Mignosa for Vellaris and picks; then it's one stop shopping for the frontenacs.

I heard that lalonde is local but imo shenkle is an upgrade. And I know he beat Charlie last year but IMO saginaws d was stronger.

Be a shame to keep a kid in a go for it year juat because he's a friend tho..seems a disservice to the fans.

 

[leafs4life94]

Totally fair, although I'd argue a 17 year old centering your 2nd line isn't enough to win a championship.

That's just my 2 cents but I'm a firm believer that contenders are built around 19 and 20 year olds with "neckbeards", and that when the ice shrinks and things get more physical a 17 year old centering the 2nd line won't cut it.

I 100% agree that the team should be built around 19/20 year olds - but the issue with trading a contributing 17 year old is that then Kingston would need to find another 19/20 year old to replace/improve on Hopkins' production, while also potentially looking at an OA upgrade on Heyes.

This is the exact situation that proves Kingston really blew it with a defected 1st this year - if Kingston had Malhotra there would be a clear starting point to negotiations.

 

[HockeyPops]

Tyler Hopkins would be bumped down to 3C on a true contender. An OA upgrade (Allard?) would get them there. Very similar to the year the Hounds had Hayton as 3C when they lost in the finals to Hamilton. In fact, I think his production at this point was right around where Hopkins' is too.

The problem with trading him is that your third line production dries right up and now you need to go out and spend more to replace that lost production.

EDIT: sniped by leafs4life

 

[DWI Dale]

This is the exact situation that proves Kingston really blew it with a defected 1st this year - if Kingston had Malhotra there would be a clear starting point to negotiations.

We know all about defective players in the 2024 draft lol

 

[JoeSchmo]

Hopefully they can work something out and the fronts don’t have to give Hopkins. That’s probably what is taking so long- fronts aren’t going to budge with that.

Fronts will budge or lose out. By the sounds of it they’ve wanted Gibson since the summer… so I don’t get the sense they’ll just back off. Hounds want bodies not just picks so the idea that they can use picks to edge out others may not be valid.

Tyler Hopkins would be bumped down to 3C on a true contender. An OA upgrade (Allard?) would get them there. Very similar to the year the Hounds had Hayton as 3C when they lost in the finals to Hamilton. In fact, I think his production at this point was right around where Hopkins' is too.

The problem with trading him is that your third line production dries right up and now you need to go out and spend more to replace that lost production.

EDIT: sniped by leafs4life

This is true IF Gibson is the only player going to Kingston. Edit: Sorry.. how did I miss the second sentence @HockeyPops my bad

 

[frontsfan67]

Fronts will budge or lose out. By the sounds of it they’ve wanted Gibson since the summer… so I don’t get the sense they’ll just back off. Hounds want bodies not just picks so the idea that they can use picks to edge out others may not be valid.

They’re not going to screw their future for 1 player.

This is true IF Gibson is the only player going to Kingston.

I have heard they’re planning to be very active

 

[Fischhaber]

Kingston is doing a massive disservice to their fans if they roll into the playoffs with a contender for the worst goaltending tandem in the league. Lalonde is 21st out of 24 qualified goalies in SV% and has been even worse lately, giving up 13 goals on 66 shots in his last 3. He's lost more games than he's won on an excellent team.

Schenkel would make a bigger impact on that team than any other player they could possibly acquire. If they are intent on keeping Hopkins, they don't even have the pieces to get another impact player. Nobody is valuing guys like Velliaris or Weir at more than a couple of mid-round picks.

 

[Houndzfan20]

They’re not going to screw their future for 1 player.

I have heard they’re planning to be very active

This is what i was talking about earlier. If we trade Martin last year, we win, without a doubt in my mind.

More teams have to have the mindset that hamilton had. Go all in, win a championship, sell off, do it again.

Respectfully, what have they done in the last 6-8 years? Maybe they've had a good season but I can't recall them being in the finals or even conference finals. They have a chance to go all in this year and win a championship. Holding on to one player, when that player could net some big fish is crazy. It could be 10 years before the fronts are back in this position and Hopkins will be long gone.

I'm not saying you have to trade him, but keeping him for the future, when the present is the best chance you've had to win in the last little bit is crazy. If you're keeping him because you think he's better than anyone he can net, fine. But keeping him for the future is a tricky line to toe.

 

[leafs4life94]

This is what i was talking about earlier. If we trade Martin last year, we win, without a doubt in my mind.

More teams have to have the mindset that hamilton had. Go all in, win a championship, sell off, do it again.

Respectfully, what have they done in the last 6-8 years? Maybe they've had a good season but I can't recall them being in the finals or even conference finals. They have a chance to go all in this year and win a championship. Holding on to one player, when that player could net some big fish is crazy. It could be 10 years before the fronts are back in this position and Hopkins will be long gone.

I'm not saying you have to trade him, but keeping him for the future, when the present is the best chance you've had to win in the last little bit is crazy. If you're keeping him because you think he's better than anyone he can net, fine. But keeping him for the future is a tricky line to toe.

Oh it's been longer than 6-8 years lol

Like someone else said - personally Kingston's goalies are the biggest issue, then likely followed by an OA upgrade up front, and then a D upgrade.

I get why Kingston wants Gibson (what team wouldn't) but part of my issue with Hopkins being involved is that it doesn't address Kingston's biggest issuenwhich is in net, while also hurting one of their strengths which is the depth scoring they have, so then they have go out and still spend capital to address.

Obviously SOO holds the cards being the seller but I'd rather Kingston slightly overpay on a picks-only trade than move Hopkins, and have to spend all those picks on a C anyways.

 

[Houndzfan20]

Oh it's been longer than 6-8 years lol

Like someone else said - personally Kingston's goalies are the biggest issue, then likely followed by an OA upgrade up front, and then a D upgrade.

I get why Kingston wants Gibson (what team wouldn't) but part of my issue with Hopkins being involved is that it doesn't address Kingston's biggest issuenwhich is in net, while also hurting one of their strengths which is the depth scoring they have, so then they have go out and still spend capital to address.

Obviously SOO holds the cards being the seller but I'd rather Kingston slightly overpay on a picks-only trade than move Hopkins, and have to spend all those picks on a C anyways.

That's fair.

I'd actually like to see gibby packaged with shenkel. Maybe even allard as well.

 

[frontsfan67]

This is what i was talking about earlier. If we trade Martin last year, we win, without a doubt in my mind.

More teams have to have the mindset that hamilton had. Go all in, win a championship, sell off, do it again.

Respectfully, what have they done in the last 6-8 years? Maybe they've had a good season but I can't recall them being in the finals or even conference finals. They have a chance to go all in this year and win a championship. Holding on to one player, when that player could net some big fish is crazy. It could be 10 years before the fronts are back in this position and Hopkins will be long gone.

I'm not saying you have to trade him, but keeping him for the future, when the present is the best chance you've had to win in the last little bit is crazy. If you're keeping him because you think he's better than anyone he can net, fine. But keeping him for the future is a tricky line to toe.

If it is a 2 year player like Luchanko, mews, Fischer etc that could be back next year where they can obviously just move them again I’d be open to trading Hopkins (but then you’d have to replace his roster spot)

Not for half a season of Gibson who is 19 and is in the ahl for sure next year

Kingston is doing a massive disservice to their fans if they roll into the playoffs with a contender for the worst goaltending tandem in the league. Lalonde is 21st out of 24 qualified goalies in SV% and has been even worse lately, giving up 13 goals on 66 shots in his last 3. He's lost more games than he's won on an excellent team.

Schenkel would make a bigger impact on that team than any other player they could possibly acquire. If they are intent on keeping Hopkins, they don't even have the pieces to get another impact player. Nobody is valuing guys like Velliaris or Weir at more than a couple of mid-round picks.

I agree but by the sounds of it I don’t think they’re upgrading their OA goalie. I would LOVE parsons on Kitchener if they were doing that.

 

[JoeSchmo]

Not for half a season of Gibson who is 19 and is in the ahl for sure next year

Unless of course you win a championship…… lol

 

[dirty12]

This is what i was talking about earlier. If we trade Martin last year, we win, without a doubt in my mind.

More teams have to have the mindset that hamilton had. Go all in, win a championship, sell off, do it again.

Respectfully, what have they done in the last 6-8 years? Maybe they've had a good season but I can't recall them being in the finals or even conference finals. They have a chance to go all in this year and win a championship. Holding on to one player, when that player could net some big fish is crazy. It could be 10 years before the fronts are back in this position and Hopkins will be long gone.

I'm not saying you have to trade him, but keeping him for the future, when the present is the best chance you've had to win in the last little bit is crazy. If you're keeping him because you think he's better than anyone he can net, fine. But keeping him for the future is a tricky line to toe.

only Sarnia (twice) has traded a top 5 selected 16 yr old at the deadline. Martin was not going to be moved. MacTavish was not going to be moved at 16 despite hounds fans saying nearly the exact same things then as now.
Guys like Hopkins contribute now and sold later to replenish spent assets. I think that Hopkins can be had if some future value is factored into a trade. But sellers want the player plus picks, so contributing 17 yr olds do not end up moving.
Mignosa, Allard for Hopkins, Heyes is right around the break-even point in terms of value. Then discuss the player and picks for Gibson, the player Kingston really wants; it is not as easy as some think.

 

[Fischhaber]

Oh it's been longer than 6-8 years lol

Like someone else said - personally Kingston's goalies are the biggest issue, then likely followed by an OA upgrade up front, and then a D upgrade.

I get why Kingston wants Gibson (what team wouldn't) but part of my issue with Hopkins being involved is that it doesn't address Kingston's biggest issuenwhich is in net, while also hurting one of their strengths which is the depth scoring they have, so then they have go out and still spend capital to address.

Obviously SOO holds the cards being the seller but I'd rather Kingston slightly overpay on a picks-only trade than move Hopkins, and have to spend all those picks on a C anyways.

I think something like this makes sense. It addresses Kingston's biggest needs and still leaves plenty of picks to upgrade on Heyes.

Schenkel + Gibson for Hopkins + Lalonde + 2,2,2,3,3

 

[dirty12]

I think something like this makes sense. It addresses Kingston's biggest needs and still leaves plenty of picks to upgrade on Heyes.

Schenkel + Gibson for Hopkins + Lalonde + 2,2,2,3,3

that's nuts! Maybe Miller, Gibson, Allard for Hopkins, Lalonde, picks.
What Kingston 'needs' is a #3-4 defenceman and middle six 2-way forward.

Remember when picks could be traded (10 years into the future); the trade was WJC player, top OA in exchange mid-round picked 1st contributing next to nothing plus 2,2,3,3.

 

[leafs4life94]

I think something like this makes sense. It addresses Kingston's biggest needs and still leaves plenty of picks to upgrade on Heyes.

Schenkel + Gibson for Hopkins + Lalonde + 2,2,2,3,3

That is absolutely absurd, even taking out a 2 and a 3 as the cost for a Lalonde upgrade, that's putting Hopkins value at a 5-6 3rd/4ths (with the Donovan trade last year as a rough comparable, Gibson may be worth slightly more) - if a Hopkins/Gibson trade happens I don't want Kingston adding a single second, let alone multiple. Hopkins value is at the very minimum 2 2s and 3 3s based off what Kingston got for an older, worse player in Frasca.

 

[DWI Dale]

you're not getting gibson without a top prospect and a boatload of high picks. whether or not you think that is "absurd" is irrelevant, someone is going to pay it.

 

[Houndzfan20]

Having Martin back was a breath of fresh air. Like i said earlier in the week, he drives our whole offence. As he goes, the team goes.

 

[dirty12]

you're not getting gibson without a top prospect and a boatload of high picks. whether or not you think that is "absurd" is irrelevant, someone is going to pay it.

define top prospect and space in boat. If you consider the gens B.Smith a top prospect and a fit for the hounds, you are probably right. Something more like the G.Hayes or Barlow trades seems more likely to me; unless, there is a large trade to be had.

 

[Fischhaber]

That is absolutely absurd, even taking out a 2 and a 3 as the cost for a Lalonde upgrade, that's putting Hopkins value at a 5-6 3rd/4ths (with the Donovan trade last year as a rough comparable, Gibson may be worth slightly more) - if a Hopkins/Gibson trade happens I don't want Kingston adding a single second, let alone multiple. Hopkins value is at the very minimum 2 2s and 3 3s based off what Kingston got for an older, worse player in Frasca.

2,3 is pretty light for Schenkel, who is up there with Parsons as the best goalie in the league this year.

That's the price a middle pairing defenseman like Roberto Mancini got last year. An elite performer gets at least another pick.

You also correctly point out that Gibson is a better player than Donovan, so that makes a difference.

The Hounds are in the driver's seat here. Kingston doesn't have a first rounder and their rival Oshawa does. If they aren't going to deal a valuable young player (Hopkins is the only one) along with some picks, then the Soo will simply deal Gibson elsewhere. Having the best available player at 2 different positions gives them that luxury.

 

[Rivrfront]

2024-2025 hound roster looks promising :
Goalie - Landon Miller
Backup - ?

Defense :
C. Reid S. Evans
McConnell Barker Holub
Gillen Solomon

Forwards :
cloutier ( OA) Martin Hayes
Mignossa (OA) B. Smith Charron
Hilton C. Brown Muxlow
? Vader ?

Not including what we would receive if Raftis were to trade at the deadline
this year : Gibson, Allard, Nordh, Shenkel, Carlisle
imagine the return if we trade all 5.

 

[dirty12]

2,3 is pretty light for Schenkel, who is up there with Parsons as the best goalie in the league this year.

That's the price a middle pairing defenseman like Roberto Mancini got last year. An elite performer gets at least another pick.

You also correctly point out that Gibson is a better player than Donovan, so that makes a difference.

The Hounds are in the driver's seat here. Kingston doesn't have a first rounder and their rival Oshawa does. If they aren't going to deal a valuable young player (Hopkins is the only one) along with some picks, then the Soo will simply deal Gibson elsewhere. Having the best available player at 2 different positions gives them that luxury.

thing is (outside of a long-term injury) no one really wants Parsons or Schenkel enough to pay. The hounds are not in the driver's seat. The hounds want to move Gibson. Kingston wants Gibson or Collins or Allen or McCoy or Mews or ...