Blue Jays Discussion: Split Against O's, Up Next, Yankees
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Its still early in the season.
However AA was getting a lot of criticism for those prospects he traded a couple years ago especially after the disaster of last year.
Now this season, we have a legit good MLB club but also a great farm system again. I have been saying give AA a couple years and the farm will be good again, and that's what happened. I mean look at that top 20. Just amazing!
Like I said before, AA is the best thing to ever happen to us!
However AA was getting a lot of criticism for those prospects he traded a couple years ago especially after the disaster of last year.
Now this season, we have a legit good MLB club but also a great farm system again. I have been saying give AA a couple years and the farm will be good again, and that's what happened. I mean look at that top 20. Just amazing!
Like I said before, AA is the best thing to ever happen to us!
Does this fit the Yankees?
NYY, the team where young players never get a chance, and when they do, they get traded pretty quickly
Be honest!
NYY, the team where young players never get a chance, and when they do, they get traded pretty quickly
Be honest!
If/when the Jays make the playoffs, then I'll entertain the idea of them being a legitimately good club. One season of making a run for the playoffs doesn't excuse the last 20 years.
Suntouchable13
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They legitamately good right now. 11 games over .500, 4.5 lead in the AL East, 2nd best record in the AL, top 5 record in all of MLB.
While thing are looking pretty bright for us now, after a really hot month of May, I'm still interested in seeing what he is going to do to improve the rotation. We all know that Happ needs to be upgraded, but would it be a Hammel type rental upgrade, or a move to get a top of the rotation to give this team a larger boost and potentially push us to the top. You gotta think that AA could get some increased payroll flexibility if it were to attain another starter as the team sits 2nd in the AL.
When are we talking? The last 7-8 years probably the case. They won WS on the backs of good young players eg. Posada, Jeter, Rivera, Williams, Pettitte. I would say no overall. Even the last 6-7 years it was Cano and he's better than any Jay position player homegrown over the last 15 years.
The season is not even half over yet. How can you call them a legitimately good team after missing the playoffs for 20 years? That kind of label requires consistency.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
topched
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Are the guys who have been here 1-2 years responsible for the last 20?!
Even management hasn't been here that long. There is so much turnover on this team, and in pro sports in general that you can't hold a current group of players accountable for 2 decades of mediocrity. Hold rogers accountable or Beeston etc but don't put it on this group of players.
As it stands, this group of players IS legitimately good. In all facets of the game they rank near the top of the league, specifically in winning %, which is what matters. And every night that passes the SSS argument weakens
Probably along the lines of 2013 Pittsburgh Pirates. They did nothing for 20 years, even the year before they looked real good and the roof caved in. Jays are probably closer to 2013 Pittsburgh than 2012. There's still a good portion of fans not buying it yet 21st in overall attendance, 26th overall in capacity filled. The Jays can only keep winning games but there's still a fair bit skepticism.
Everything. It contributes to the skepticism year after year. Let me guess, you were one of the many who thought the Jays would contend for the World Series last season?
Calling a team legitimately good implies they've actually been establishing themselves as contenders season after season. Say they've been playing well so far, don't say they're legitimately good. You actually have to accomplish something to earn that label. Just my two cents though, sorry if being realistic offends some people.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
Boston won a world series last year but it's hard to consider that team legitimately good this season. Same with the Rays who have been a 90 win threat since 2008. I think you can be a legitimately good team without having success for awhile. The 2012 Nats were legitimately good, the 2013 Pirates were too.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
I was one of many who believed they raised their chances of making the playoffs by making the additions they did.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
The 2012 A's, 2006 Tigers, 2002 Angels, 1993 Phillies, 1991 Braves, 1991 Twins. Its one of the beautiful things about baseball.
topched
Registered User
Yeah he, myself, 10s of others on this board and the majority of experts working for sports media outlets around the continent. Looking at talent and numbers on a roster only gets you so far, but it wasn't a stretch to label them favourites, and after the way the first couple of months played out it was easy to see predictions weren't going to be accurate.
It's amusing because your argument has so many holes. I suppose the Red Sox 50+ year drought made them an awful team until they won the World Series in 04. And them being one of the worst teams in baseball in 2012 meant nothing, when with tons of turnover they won last year.
White Sox in 2005, Marlins in 2003 and Dbacks in 2001 are all teams that according to your argument wouldn't be "legitimately good" until they won the WS.
As for the last parting shot, you're not some slick realist. You've just created an argument that paints everything with one large brush. It's actually far from realistic, it's more like an easy way out of any discussion based on nothing.
Matt Wieters to have Tommy Johns, oh thats unfortunate for Baltimore.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/06/matt-wieters-to-undergo-tommy-john-surgery.html
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/06/matt-wieters-to-undergo-tommy-john-surgery.html
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
On the one hand that is awful for the guy (and my fantasy ball team) .. On the other that does help the Jays
By that logic, Leafs have been the worst team in the NHL for the last half century which probably is true
You downgrade the Jays and Raps success, what does that make the pathetic Leafs than?
Anyways no idea why I insult the Jays when talking about the Leafs here
I am interested what AA does as well like poster above. What AA has shown is that he likes players with control, I dont see him going after a rental though he still might
HOCKEYGOON
Registered User
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
perception of the team's long-term success does not equal their current actual success/talent level right now.
and what does the team's long-term history have to do with whether or not they were thought to be contenders last year? Of course they were thought to be contenders last year at the start of the season. They had a bunch of good offensive pieces and made big trades to bolster the rotation with a trio of what were supposed to be excellent starters. They were picked as favorites because of the talent the team had. Teh fact that the team sucked at varying points in the prior 20 years is entirely irrelevant. Unless you're going to convince me that Homer Bush was suddenly going to be playing 2B or Steve Trachsel was going to take the mound as a starter.
Seasons are discrete events. The talent level on the team and the happenings in that season determine how that season will end. You might draw some analysis from recent past seasons to judge the impact of roster carryover from those teams. But the idea that what happened 15 years ago, 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago* should somehow play into what you think of the 2014 team right here and right now is ridiculous.
*there are only 5 holdovers from that team on the 2014 team:
- Cecil (18 mediocre games as a starter)
- Janssen (pitched just 40 innings in 20 games as a middle reliever)
- Bautista (just before his breakout year, was a utility guy for much of the year)
- Encarnacion (acquired mid-season, was a marginal piece)
- Lind (his flukey breakout year)
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Probably. Unless his arm explodes again. Which given how hard he throws and what he throws(though he's allegedly toned it down a bit), is always possible.
Chance? Yes.
Likely? Not remotely. Rays are going to want a king's ransom for him and that's before they even entertain the idea of trading him within the division. The cost would far exceed the value of the return.
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