Blue Jays Discussion: Split Against O's, Up Next, Yankees

[dredeye]

Deck's start tonight: 6 hits, 5 earned runs, 3 walks and 4 strikeouts in 3.1 innings.

That's his first bad start since the promotion

 

[dredeye]

Jim Callis said on twitter that it might be a while before we hear anything on Hoffman or Pentecost.

I can't see why that would be the case.

 

[Stats01]

We can all forget about possibly getting Shields right now because KC are only half a game out of the Central. They are on a huge roll and the Tigers are free falling. Count out another seller. Right now the only true sellers are the Phillies, the Rays and the Cubs.

 

[Stats01]

The season is not even half over yet. How can you call them a legitimately good team after missing the playoffs for 20 years? That kind of label requires consistency.

A better question is why you're dictating your opinion on this year's team on the last 20 years. They have nothing to do with each other. This is a good team. 91 games left, 4.5 games up on the Yanks, 5 games up on Baltimore, 11 games over .500.

 

[Stats01]

Rays and Cubs were scouting Norris the other day (according to Bob Elliott fwiw).


Kind of scary to think about. Elliot says the Cubs want 4 players for the Shark. ****ing terrifying to think about what we're going to have to give up for him.

If I'm trading Norris I'd want Price.

 

[Stats01]

"Lefty Daniel Norris made his 13th start for the class-A Dunedin Blue Jays on Thursday at Florida Auto Exchange Stadium before 809 fans and watchful eyes. Chaim Bloom, Tampa Bay’s director of baseball operations, and two Rays scouts were there, as were Cubs vice-president Tim Wilken, along with Blue Jays assistant general manager Andrew Tinnish, special assignment scout Russ Bove and pro cross-checker Dean Decillis.

Norris, 21, pitched five scoreless innings against the Daytona Cubs, allowing three base-runners on one hit and two walks, while striking out three. Norris lowered his ERA to 1.22 and has walked 18 and struck out 76 in 66.1 innings.

Now, the Rays and Cubs scouts could have been out for a drive and saw the lights and stopped for a hot dog, or they could have been checking out the Jays prospects.


It would be really sad losing this kid. When a team's vice-president personally comes to watch you along with Andrew Tinnish the assistant GM of the Jays you have to assume trade talks are heating up a bit.

 

[The Nemesis]

"Lefty Daniel Norris made his 13th start for the class-A Dunedin Blue Jays on Thursday at Florida Auto Exchange Stadium before 809 fans and watchful eyes. Chaim Bloom, Tampa Bay’s director of baseball operations, and two Rays scouts were there, as were Cubs vice-president Tim Wilken, along with Blue Jays assistant general manager Andrew Tinnish, special assignment scout Russ Bove and pro cross-checker Dean Decillis.

Norris, 21, pitched five scoreless innings against the Daytona Cubs, allowing three base-runners on one hit and two walks, while striking out three. Norris lowered his ERA to 1.22 and has walked 18 and struck out 76 in 66.1 innings.

Now, the Rays and Cubs scouts could have been out for a drive and saw the lights and stopped for a hot dog, or they could have been checking out the Jays prospects.


It would be really sad losing this kid. When a team's vice-president personally comes to watch you along with Andrew Tinnish the assistant GM of the Jays you have to assume trade talks are heating up a bit.

Both Tinnish and Anthopoulos have been known to go out and personally watch some of the highlights in the Jays prospect pool before. Hell, Anthopoulos was in Vancouver at one point last year to take in some C's games. It's got nothing to do with trade talks (or if it does, it's probably just a case of "people are going to ask about this one, so let's get eyes on him so we have up to date info") I wouldn't read too much into it.

As for the other teams, they're likely just doing their homework for if they want to ask about those players.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Barreto having another stellar night. 4 for 6 with 2b, bb, 2 sbs

 

[Stats01]

Both Tinnish and Anthopoulos have been known to go out and personally watch some of the highlights in the Jays prospect pool before. Hell, Anthopoulos was in Vancouver at one point last year to take in some C's games. It's got nothing to do with trade talks (or if it does, it's probably just a case of "people are going to ask about this one, so let's get eyes on him so we have up to date info") I wouldn't read too much into it.

As for the other teams, they're likely just doing their homework for if they want to ask about those players.

It was the Cubs Vice-President, there has been news about the Jays and Cubs talking trade, I think this is a little more than a team doing their homework. This is a team personally scouting a kid they like and could want in a trade. Teams scout each other all the time but Vice-President's don't make the trip unless there has already been some dialogue. If AA or Tony LaCava went out and scouted a specific player on another team I'd be saying the something

 

[King Mapes]

You forgot the biggest of the big boys. Romero and JPA

True that

Romero has had such a rocky path. First he was the bust who we picked when Tulo was still on the board, then he was an emerging top of the rotation starter, now he's back to being a bust.

And how dare you call JPA a bust! He hits the long ball, and who needs to play defense or get on base when you can do that?

Plus it's the medias fault he sucks

 

[King Mapes]

that happens with most teams. The bust rate in baseball is astronomical. That's not to say the Jays haven't done poorly particularly in their early round selections in the draft, but that's why the current strategy is in place. Draft quantity and quality. Some of them are going to fail, but the more that are in the system, the better chance of getting some that succeed.

This is actually what I was getting at. I wasn't trying to just pick apart the Hays, they're just the only team I know well. I was just saying that's why giving up prospects for an ace isn't such a bad idea. Prospects in baseball are so hit and miss.

 

[Stats01]

I found this on another board. it's weird being on the other end of something like this.


Jose Reyes and Josh Thole feel bad for David Wright and New York Mets fans
June 16th, 2014 2:11 pm

Blue Jays SS Jose Reyes and C Josh Thole say they feel bad for David Wright, who continues to struggle through a rebuilding process in Queens, they told columnist Anthony Reiber this past weekend (Newsday, June 15).

“I was there from 2009 through 2012, and it was ‘wait till next year, wait till next year,’†said Thole. “The hardest thing in the baseball world, in my opinion, is to play in New York for the Mets. Everything is a story there.â€

Reyes, Thole and the Blue Jays are 40-30 and in first place in the American League East.

“After a little while, you just want to win,†Reyes said. “It’s not about the money, because we are already set. We've got a contract and it’s now about winning. We’re not getting any younger, you know? What is he, 31? I’m 31 I want to win.â€

 

[Stats01]

Barreto having another stellar night. 4 for 6 with 2b, bb, 2 sbs

ripping it up! He's too good for Vancouver.

 

[Stats01]

Thank goodness Detroit didn't sign Verlander into his late 30's...oh wait

2015 32 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2016 33 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2017 34 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2018 35 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2019 36 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2020 37 Detroit Tigers *$22,000,000 $22M Vesting Option

 

[jcollins]

ripping it up! He's too good for Vancouver.

He could be in Lansing by mid July if he keeps this up. Particularly if they feel like Lugo can handle Dunedin.

Emillio Guererro is standing in Lugo's way at Dunedin so we'll see. Not that he's a high end prospect.

 

[jcollins]

Thank goodness Detroit didn't sign Verlander into his late 30's...oh wait

2015 32 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2016 33 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2017 34 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2018 35 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2019 36 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2020 37 Detroit Tigers *$22,000,000 $22M Vesting Option

Vernon Wells type deal right there.

 

[dredeye]

It was the Cubs Vice-President, there has been news about the Jays and Cubs talking trade, I think this is a little more than a team doing their homework. This is a team personally scouting a kid they like and could want in a trade. Teams scout each other all the time but Vice-President's don't make the trip unless there has already been some dialogue. If AA or Tony LaCava went out and scouted a specific player on another team I'd be saying the something

Weren't they playing a cubs minor league team though? I don't want this kid traded either way.

 

[dredeye]

Looks like the cubs are shopping pretty much all of their rotation. Jackson and Arrieta are also available. Cubs love working with boras apparently because these two are also his clients. Jackson struggling and two years left on his deal would make him a cheap add. Arrieta is arb eligible after this year so he'll be looking for a payday. Would be more expensive to add but an interesting option

 

[Woodman19]

Looks like the cubs are shopping pretty much all of their rotation. Jackson and Arrieta are also available. Cubs love working with boras apparently because these two are also his clients. Jackson struggling and two years left on his deal would make him a cheap add. Arrieta is arb eligible after this year so he'll be looking for a payday. Would be more expensive to add but an interesting option

Jackson intrigues me, he has great stuff and is having an unlucky year with a 5.00 ERA vs. his 3.90 FIP. At $11 Million it is not crazy money and he still has 2.5 years of control. He would be a perfect bridge starter for us until the Sanchez/Norris’ of the system are ready to step in and he would be easy to move down the road at that money.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Maybe that's AA's plan .. Discuss Shark with the Cubs until they get exhausted from negotiations, then snag Jackson on the very cheap side

 

[Mach85]

This is actually what I was getting at. I wasn't trying to just pick apart the Hays, they're just the only team I know well. I was just saying that's why giving up prospects for an ace isn't such a bad idea. Prospects in baseball are so hit and miss.

I agree, people do tend to overvalue prospects. This is especially dangerous in baseball where the bust rate is so much higher than other sports. Not to say teams should go all "draft shmaft" Cliff Fletcher style, but one thing to keep in mind when you have the opportunity to trade for a guaranteed difference-maker.

Look at the 'specs from the CC Sabathia deal, or the two Cliff Lee deals. These are just two examples cherry-picked, and the same thing could be done for deals where the 'specs worked out (e.g. Teixeira), but it goes to show that even with elite prospects it's far from a sure thing.

Thank goodness Detroit didn't sign Verlander into his late 30's...oh wait

2015 32 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2016 33 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2017 34 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2018 35 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2019 36 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2020 37 Detroit Tigers *$22,000,000 $22M Vesting Option

I still think he'll turn it around once he learns to pitch with less velocity. The good ones usually do. Still, I wonder if the Tigers are glad Scherzer turned down that mega deal in the off-season.

Looks like the cubs are shopping pretty much all of their rotation. Jackson and Arrieta are also available. Cubs love working with boras apparently because these two are also his clients. Jackson struggling and two years left on his deal would make him a cheap add. Arrieta is arb eligible after this year so he'll be looking for a payday. Would be more expensive to add but an interesting option

Arrieta is one of those "stuff" guys who teams were eternally waiting for him to put it together. He's done well so far this year, but we'll see if he sustains it.

 

[Mach85]

Maybe that's AA's plan .. Discuss Shark with the Cubs until they get exhausted from negotiations, then snag Jackson on the very cheap side

Then flip him along with an inventory of relievers for a young player who has fallen all out favour?

 

[trellaine201]

Thank goodness Detroit didn't sign Verlander into his late 30's...oh wait

2015 32 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2016 33 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2017 34 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2018 35 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2019 36 Detroit Tigers $28,000,000
2020 37 Detroit Tigers *$22,000,000 $22M Vesting Option

At least a vesting option in 2020

 

[Silver91]

Jackson intrigues me, he has great stuff and is having an unlucky year with a 5.00 ERA vs. his 3.90 FIP. At $11 Million it is not crazy money and he still has 2.5 years of control. He would be a perfect bridge starter for us until the Sanchez/Norris’ of the system are ready to step in and he would be easy to move down the road at that money.

The only thing about E-Jax is I feel like we've got our quota of Edwins...too many and the clubhouse might implode

But yeah, he's definitely been unlucky, but he's also been helped out at Wrigley. The splits are pretty big, especially this year where his road ERA is more than twice his home ERA (though the xFIP numbers are a lot closer, seperated by about 0.5). Also, his K/9 might be due for some regression, since it's the highest of his career and about 1.5 above his career avg.

I'd take him if he comes cheap, but if we can get Hammel for the same/cheaper then I go for him. Hammel's probably due for a little regression too, but he's actually pitched better, save some lesser luck, on the road than at home.

 

[dredeye]

Then flip him along with an inventory of relievers for a young player who has fallen all out favour?

This guy gets it lol