Proposal: Spicy Buffalo Chychrun

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True, I like the buffalo 23 pick the most. If we traded Veggie and got Portillo to sign that would be great. I will be honest, I don't know rosen much. He seems like another Macelli. I liked Kulich or if we could get someone a bit more physical or maybe a defensive prospect.

Rosen is a bit undersized for now. Stupid fast and shifty and his shot is NHL-caliber already. Give him another year in the A and 2 summers of training and body maturity and there could very well be something there.

Personally I think his floor is a guy like Olofsson (PP specialist, inconsistent 5v5)......but if he hits he could be real, real good.

As far as the proposal goes...........to me, it's a secondary piece too many (as in, either Portillo OR the Philly 2nd..........I might be OK with Portillo and the Vegas 2nd). But it's not a deal that would make me cringe.

I still question the fit of Chychrun in Buffalo, but the value on this isn't bad at all.
 
Not a fan of that return as a yotes fan. Seems like rentals go for that much these days. Isn't portillo a FA after this season? And Rosen isn't a BA guy imo.
Rentals don’t go for mid 1st round picks and 1st round picks from 2 years ago that have had AHL success and 2 good WJC showings.
Also, what does not being a BA guy mean? I would think that a team would not want all one type of player or else they would be a very easy team play against given that everyone plays the same way. Rosen is a legitimate top six prospect and honestly got a lot of flack because people reference draft weight and wanted a goalie in that spot / his team screwed him with playing time last year in Sweden. He’s actually been very good and I would not give him up for a rental ever. He’s a legit top 5 prospect at worst for Buffalo and would be top 3 if we didn’t have so many other recent 1st/ high picks. No way I’m trading Kulich unless getting a top line fwd back ( not sure I’d even want to include him in a Meier trade )
 
Rentals don’t go for mid 1st round picks and 1st round picks from 2 years ago that have had AHL success and 2 good WJC showings.
Also, what does not being a BA guy mean? I would think that a team would not want all one type of player or else they would be a very easy team play against given that everyone plays the same way. Rosen is a legitimate top six prospect and honestly got a lot of flack because people reference draft weight and wanted a goalie in that spot / his team screwed him with playing time last year in Sweden. He’s actually been very good and I would not give him up for a rental ever. He’s a legit top 5 prospect at worst for Buffalo and would be top 3 if we didn’t have so many other recent 1st/ high picks. No way I’m trading Kulich unless getting a top line fwd back ( not sure I’d even want to include him in a Meier trade )
Coyotes GM wants the team bigger and more physical. We already have a player like Rosen on the left wing in Maccelli. Probably a player you hope Rosen turns into. Plus Keller and Crouse. Not sure if LW is really what the team needs. I personally think defense or in Center.
I'm not knocking Rosen...I honestly haven't followed him and its hard to get excited about another small LW from a coyotes perspective.
 
Yo imma be honest

Screw the Sabres and come deal with Toronto

Sandin + Knies + 2023 1st + 2024 1st for chychrun@50% + Crouse

Your 2023 1st + Knies probably beats the Sabres offer, but Buffalo’s 1st is the trump card. There’s a chance it’s before the 17th pick. Hence the top 5 protection in this offer by an Arizona fan. If that happens, it automatically slides to a 2024 1st with no protection.

As for OP, deal.
 
Yo imma be honest

Screw the Sabres and come deal with Toronto

Sandin + Knies + 2023 1st + 2024 1st for chychrun@50% + Crouse
Remove Crouse and you’ve got a deal.

Rosen is a bit undersized for now. Stupid fast and shifty and his shot is NHL-caliber already. Give him another year in the A and 2 summers of training and body maturity and there could very well be something there.

Personally I think his floor is a guy like Olofsson (PP specialist, inconsistent 5v5)......but if he hits he could be real, real good.

As far as the proposal goes...........to me, it's a secondary piece too many (as in, either Portillo OR the Philly 2nd..........I might be OK with Portillo and the Vegas 2nd). But it's not a deal that would make me cringe.

I still question the fit of Chychrun in Buffalo, but the value on this isn't bad at all.
How much value do you think Portillo has? He’s not signing and there’s no compensatory pick for him. I put the 4th in there as most of the offset on him.
 
Coyotes GM wants the team bigger and more physical. We already have a player like Rosen on the left wing in Maccelli. Probably a player you hope Rosen turns into. Plus Keller and Crouse. Not sure if LW is really what the team needs. I personally think defense or in Center.
I'm not knocking Rosen...I honestly haven't followed him and its hard to get excited about another small LW from a coyotes perspective.
Maccelli-Hayton-Rosen could make sense someday if a lot of stuff goes well.

Isn't portilo going to be a UFA? That's my hope as a kings fan haha
Yep. That’s why I’m offering them a 4th. AZ’s goalie depth is terrible. I think he would be happy to sign here. LAK will be too crowded with Vejmelka, Copley, and Peterson. And Portillo will be happy to join fellow newly acquired Swedes Rosen (Chychrun deal) and Grans (along with your 2nd and Walker for Vejmelka) in AZ. :)
 
I liked what I saw at the WJC. :dunno:

What are your concerns?
That's a breathtakingly stupid take.

Firstly, I was preaching patience on the BUF forums all last year and prior to this one that people shouldn't judge Rosen negatively based on his D+1 season -- due to a combination of injuries & lack of playing time/being in the right league or circumstance for his development, as well as well as other players who other Sabres fans wanted to select either at the time or with the benefit of hindsight (such as Wallstedt or Othmann or whomever).

I even gave him the benefit of the doubt in the summer WJC tourney because he had missed a bunch of time and the other aforementioned reasons. But I did see certain things that concerned me and gave him a pass until I could see him more.

I came away from this past WJC very disappointed in his game overall. He's got some excellent strengths, such as:

- very intelligent player. He's got good positioning in all 3 zones. He's defensively responsible and reads the play well by being in good position, and does a good job of covering at the blueline when defenders pinch or otherwise when being the last F back.
- he's a good passer with good vision. He makes smart passes in all 3 zones. He can spot a longer distance passing lane and execute quickly, or hold on for an extra second to wait for more options to present themselves.
- he's got a good shot and he's got a naturally high skill level. No, his shot isn't as good as Jiri Kulich and while it's a strength at lower levels, and may or may not be an elite shot at the NHL level when he develops more strength, but it's not an elite NHL shot "now".
- he's calm & poised and won't rush a play or be flustered -- not the complete "ice water in his veins" but good patience. However, the latter can can sometimes be the flipside of lack of urgency or motor; or at least there's a need to balance both.

Despite the very obvious positive stuff in his game, I think he's got some SERIOUS weaknesses that MIGHT be fatal flaws for him. For example:

- this player is so soft that someone should name a line of toilet paper after him.
- I don't like his motor. By comparison, Noah Ostlund has a MUCH better motor where he's giving much more of a consistent level of pace, determination & effort on every shift.
- Rosen shies away from physical contact. Although the examples are plentiful, the one that best exemplified this for me is when he was going in 1 on 1 with Lane Hutson (the smallest Dman in the tournament) in the Bronze medal game. Rosen crossed the blueline with the puck and rather than even trying to beat Hutson wide or chip the puck & chase it down in the corner, Rosen just dumped it in softly and peeled off. And no, this wasn't at the end of a shift when he didn't have gas in the tank.
- It's one thing to not win a battle along the boards/in the corners, but it's another thing to not even try or engage. Again, I will point to Ostlund here who is smaller & slighter than Rosen, but he worked his ass off on every 50/50 puck battle despite the size of the opponent. Ostlund is much stronger in the areas of determination and engaging in battles than Rosen.
- I saw absolutely ZERO, and I cannot stress enough, ZERO levels of change in Rosen's game despite the score/circumstance in the game or what game he was playing in. I saw no difference in his effort level, determination, pace or willingness to engage in battles whether it was the early tourney games or when it got to the medal round and even the bronze medal game. And not only did I not see a difference from one game to another, I saw no change whether it was in the first period of that game relative to when it was the 3rd period or when they were down by a goal or when it was in overtime. Rosen played every shift like he was playing in a pre-tournament exhibition game.

I came into this past season thinking Rosen needed lots of playing time (preferably in the CHL, but unfortunately BUF didn't engineer for him to be take in the Import draft) and I came away from the WJC believing less like he needs playing time amongst his peers and more that he needs military style boot camp. Someone has to instill some real determination and urgency in his game.

And while naturally skilled, he doesn't have a shot like Viktor Olofsson (like @Chainshot pointed out in one of the BUF forum threads), and he doesn't have the one-on-one skills like an Alexi Kovalev where he can just dance guys at will, and while he's an excellent skater, he's not such a burner that he's find himself on breakaways all the time (like a Michael Grabner type of guy). In short, I don't think he's strengths are strong enough to overcome the flaws. At least as it stands TODAY....

So this is where I feel the need to state what should be implicit: that Rosen may well develop in a way where he overcomes these weaknesses, and I sure hope he does. But I wouldn't bet any of my own money on it. I think it's more likely that he ends up as a bottom bottom 6 guy and PP specialist on a weak team (if he makes the NHL) than being a legit top 6 or play driving winger on a good team. And I think there's a legit chance he doesn't play. And I would be willing to bet money that if he does play 200+ NHL games, it won't be for the Sabres.

Then look at BUF specifically with their prospect pool, and I don't see him taking a spot over any of their top young players -- Quinn, Peterka, Savoie, Kulich, or even Ostlund or Mittelstadt (who has impressed me of late). I think he's behind all of those guys, and would be behind any forward BUF could select in the upcoming 2023 draft if they keep their pick. That's why I think Rosen is clear cut trade bait. And while my view of Rosen may not be universal among the league's scouts & GM's, I would be willing to bet my own money that A LOT of them feel this way, Bill Armstrong among them.
 
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This is all over the place, from praise, to dislike, to let's compare him to the rest of the Buffalo pipeline, even to non-prospects (Mittelstadt).

Your assessment is his development is one thing (I disagree with portions); your assessment of his value is way off. I'd trade any of our 2nds this year for another team's Isak Rosen.
 
What's not to love as a Sabres fan about this proposal??

AND it has the obligatory HFB 4'th rounder thrown in for good measure!!

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I understand Chychrun is a great player but the asking price for a player 2 years from UFA is crazy expensive
The ask is for 3 post seasons and 2 regular seasons at a very low cap hit. I understand Buffalo isn't in a cap crunch and his cap hit and expiration don't do Buffalo any service. That doesn't lower the asking price, it's merely a bonus feature of the contract.

Buffalo currently sits 3 points out of a wildcard spot, and will likely be looking to make the jump to contender at some point between now and 2 years from now. If it's the latter, this makes no sense for Buffalo.

With all that said, Rosen isn't much of an interest for me, but I understand why people would want him. He also makes the most sense to be the prospect included. I'd do the deal if nothing better is offered, but it feels underwhelming to me.

I don't think Buffalo should do anything that isn't finding a starting netminder, after they've addressed that, fill in what's left.
 
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Coyotes GM wants the team bigger and more physical. We already have a player like Rosen on the left wing in Maccelli. Probably a player you hope Rosen turns into. Plus Keller and Crouse. Not sure if LW is really what the team needs. I personally think defense or in Center.
I'm not knocking Rosen...I honestly haven't followed him and its hard to get excited about another small LW from a coyotes perspective.
You do know that trades happen in the NHL.
 
I'd do this. I'm happy with Rosen and he looked good this past WJC. Was one of the few bright spots on the team. I'd still rather send Chychrun to LA with Veggie, but if this is the best deal you take it.
 
If I’m Arizona, I want a bluechip prospect or a high pick. They are already awash in middling assets and this is a classic quantity for quality. I think other teams would beat this offer fairly easily.
 

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