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Speculation: Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXV

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NYSPORTS said:
It’s easy math bud. Look at what happened to Chicago. They were loaded and hamstrung themselves. Penguins have had similar issues. I’m good with five years for Mika. Beyond that? It’s ridiculous.
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Chicago lost a bunch of their mid tier depth players and then won another cup, so I’m not following that argument terribly well.
 
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If we're singing Zibanejad because he's a "C' thats the dumbest thing ever. We could win the whole f***ing thing if we had the modern day equivalents to Stepan and Brassard with this group.

However Zibanejad's 40+ goals are going to be next to impossible to replace. If you think "1Cs" are rare, 40 goal scorers are even rarer. If you're worried about losing anything, this is what you should be worried about losing. Doesn't mean you should bend the knee and give him a bad contract, in fact I'd rather take my chances and search elsewhere if the alternative is 7 years at 9+ per. Just because a solution doesn't exist right now (and it doesn't have to, hes signed through this season) doesn't mean that one won't exist 9 months from now.
 
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If/when Mika is signed. We have our top9 long term. Everyone is clamoring for Chytil as the 2C, he's all but locked in, in everyoens mind. We have Goodrow and Barron on the brink for 3C. A wild card like Kravtsov.

Our top talent is at wing. This has been talked about for years. It's also why I wanted a reasonable contract/player like Dvorak. He was the perfect center for this teams makeup.

Our middle6 centers need to be 'cheap/good value'. We will never be allowed to 'pay' our Centers Kevin Hayes money with the wingers we have. We need affordable yet solid 2way middle6 centers, as I've been saying for a while.

NOT EVERY POSITION PLAYER WILL BE A WORLD BEATER
 
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duhmetreE said:
Like it or not. Mika will be signed for 7 years. Hopefully the AAV is reasonable

after year 5 of his deal, hoping the Cap is approaching $100M. He doesn't have a full NMC. His contract is structured in a way similar to Kreider/Trouba. ie make him moveable.

It is what it is. Trouba and Kreider will be moved if some kids need fat contracts in 3-4 years.
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If Tampa could figure it out, so can the Rangers. The dynamic always changes. You deal with the contracts when you absolutely need to. Remember last year the Lightning "needed" to move Killorn/Palat/Johnson/Gourde? Well Kucherov was out the entire year cause of injury and they didn't need to. This offseason they did and Gourde was taken in expansion, Johnson was moved, and they couldn't re-sign Goodrow or Coleman.

Guess what, they are still considered cup contenders this season. Keep your top guys around, make moves with the pieces in the middle. Retool the bottom 6 with cheaper internal options. Try and have some cap space so you can bank some of it for a deadline move.

Also when you get to be really good or a playoff team, veterans looking for a cup will come cheap. Corey Perry was just one of those guys for Dallas and then Montreal. Now he is on Tampa. Parise signed for peanuts for the Islanders. Toronto added guys like Spezza and Simmonds on the cheap.

We may end up overpaying for someone like Zibanejad a little bit. We're going to make up for it by being good and having the ability to get a guy that could make $2-3M as a veteran taking 900K to play on a really good team with a chance to win.
 
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And this is why wingers are more important than centers. They can be signed cheaper for the same production because they don't have this mystic aura about them being a "natural center" which is somehow the most valuable thing ever. Way more surplus value not to mention there are more good centers than good wings so they are easier to replace.
 
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Fitzy said:
Chicago lost a bunch of their mid tier depth players and then won another cup, so I’m not following that argument terribly well.
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The Rangers will find a center and be fine regardless of Zibby. No need to panic
 
As it stands, I think we have one of, if not the most talented roster in the league.

Complaining we need more talent doesn't make any sense to me. Are we expecting an all-star team? We've grown fat from talent.
 
Uninstaaled said:
If we're singing Zibanejad because he's a "C' thats the dumbest thing ever. We could win the whole f***ing thing if we had the modern day equivalents to Stepan and Brassard with this group.

However Zibanejad's 40+ goals are going to be next to impossible to replace. If you think "1Cs" are rare, 40 goal scorers are even rarer. If you're worried about losing anything, this is what you should be worried about losing. Doesn't mean you should bend the knee and give him a bad contract, in fact I'd rather take my chances and search elsewhere if the alternative is 7 years at 9+ per. Just because a solution doesn't exist right now (and it doesn't have to, hes signed through this season) doesn't mean that one won't exist 9 months from now.
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It's not justification to sign Zibanejad for 7+ years by itself, but our lack of established center depth really bothers me. Behind Zibajenad you have Strome who seems to be perpetually on his way out, Chytil who may or may not have the ability to really step into a top-six center role, and then not much. The prospect pipeline has some interesting guys but none that I see with real high-end potential, and even if we were to draft one in the next couple years, they're still likely years away.

So that's puts you in the position of if you let your best center leave (and potentially two best centers), what are you doing next? You can go into free agency and similarly overpay, or try to acquire a good center in a trade, which is easier said than done. To your point of, "just because a solution isn't there now, doesn't mean it won't be in the future,"--while that's possibly true, it's not an absolute truth. You could let Zibanejad walk and then spend several seasons whiffing on acquiring another good center to play in your top six.

I'm not one who thinks you have to employ a true high-end C to win a Cup, but I also really worry about the uncertainty around our center depth given Zibanejad's situation and Strome's situation. I don't think it's "the dumbest thing ever" do place greater emphasis on Zibanejad because he's a C.
 
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duhmetreE said:
As it stands, I think we have one of, if not the most talented roster in the league.

Complaining we need more talent doesn't make any sense to me. Are we expecting an all-star team? We've grown fat from talent.
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lol, i know. We got to the Stanley Cup Finals with middle of the road offensive players. The Isles, Vegas, etc have sparse talent. This Rangers team has lottey picks, Norris Trophy winners and kids everywhere yet we not only need more but we have tie up againg vets for almost a decade and acquire Eichel lol.
 
nyr2k2 said:
The Rangers will re-sign Zibanejad and figure out the cap later. No need to panic.
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Five years is fine. The panic crew are the ones who still can't get over Zucarello, needed Kreider, wanted Hank resigned and need Zibby for 7 years as if no other center will ever be available (it's not even on their radar how many young players will be lost due to the cap) Heck, look at the outcry from losing Buch, hello, that's b/c of a Kreider contract, etc
 
NYSPORTS said:
Five years is fine. The panic crew are the ones who still can't get over Zucarello, needed Kreider, wanted Hank resigned and need Zibby for 7 years as if no other center will ever be available (it's not even on their radar how many young players will be lost due to the cap) Heck, look at the outcry from losing Buch, hello, that's b/c of a Kreider contract, etc
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You're painting with an awfully broad stroke. Like, I didn't want to keep Zuccarello, was 50/50 on Kreider, and didn't want to re-sign Lundqvist (I'm actually not sure what that refers to). You understand there are dozens and dozens of regular posters here and not one homogenous group who all shares these opinions you're mocking, right?
 
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nyr2k2 said:
You're painting with an awfully broad stroke. Like, I didn't want to keep Zuccarello, was 50/50 on Kreider, and didn't want to re-sign Lundqvist (I'm actually not sure what that refers to). You understand there are dozens and dozens of regular posters here and not one homogenous group who all shares these opinions you're mocking, right?
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You understand i'm a Rangers fan and couldn't care less if (if) a Center walks b/c a five year deal is too short?
 
NYR Viper said:
I keep coming back to the idea that it would have been nice for them to stockpile some centers in general but lets look at this for a moment. Let's assume for a moment that the team wants to re-sign Zibanejad. Based on Chytil's development and underlying numbers, it appears he is destined to be a 2C. Barron is clearly being groomed to be a center at the NHL level. Where would this theoretical other young center play?

2021
Korczak and Grubbe in the 3rd round.

2020
Tarnstrom, Vierling and Rempe in the 3rd, 5th and 6th rounds

2019
Henriksson in the 2nd

I wouldn't say they are just ignoring the position, more, it would appear, looking at kids who may be 3-4 years out assuming they develop.
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You generally get top 6 centers in the first 2 rounds, there's always exceptions but imo they severely dropped the ball when they didn't use the Schneider pick for a center, not because i dislike him but because we already had Nils. The lindbom pick was another they should have used on a center. Using 3 round and beyond picks on centers its unlikely you are getting a top line center or even a 2nd line one. The Laf and Kakko picks were no brainers, its the picks after them that were confusing considering we were handed two high level wingers.
 
nyr2k2 said:
We're all Rangers fans. What's your point? You don't care if one of our best players walks, a lot of us do. Not sure what your point is.
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Well in case you missed me repeat the point at a nauseating clip it's the seven years.
 
NYSPORTS said:
Five years is fine. The panic crew are the ones who still can't get over Zucarello, needed Kreider, wanted Hank resigned and need Zibby for 7 years as if no other center will ever be available (it's not even on their radar how many young players will be lost due to the cap) Heck, look at the outcry from losing Buch, hello, that's b/c of a Kreider contract, etc
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Who was the last true top line center that the Rangers signed out of free agency? I'll wait.
 
nyr2k2 said:
Yeah I don't really know anything about MMA, but I've seen enough fights to believe that if a neck procedure is good enough for a high-level MMA fighter to continue successfully fighting, it's pretty much good enough for anyone in any sport.
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I’d like to see some data. MMA sure does seem tougher at the surface level, but F = mA. I am really curious if anyone has collected data on the actual forces incurred at various places in the body during high speed hockey collisions vs. various MMA maneuvers.
 
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I get the feeling Laf is going to be our 2nd best player this season. 90+ pts on line 1 and PP1.

Having him on the right wall on the PP improves it dramatically IMO. This team is stacked.
 
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