So what happens if this team is actually bad?

[Frozen Failure]

Daley hasn't regressed. He's been the only constant over the past few years.

Goligoski... Goligoski is only good if the team in front of him is producing, because that is his skill set. He is a complimentary offensive defenseman. Not a bad thing on a good team, but we're hardly a good team. And no one is producing because we still lack talent throughout the roster.

I honestly just believe it's a lack of commitment from everyone outside of the few rookies who are just happy to be up.

I just want to watch a team that is committed to putting their best on the ice game in and game out that just happens to win a game every so often. And maybe make the playoffs.

A team wasting away is not a team I want to watch. The Stars need to step back, take a deep ****ing breath, and come back out with motivation and a more cohesive team system that isn't "skate our opponents to death", because all it does is make them mentally exhausted in the third with a short bench.

I also believe Dallas shouldn't be wasting roster spots on veterans with nothing to prove or commit to. We're being used as a training ground for forwards, and at this rate, defensemen. I am actually still furious that it's going to be 2-3 years before this all sorts itself out.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

A team wasting away is not a team I want to watch.

That's a very apt description of this team.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

I honestly just believe it's a lack of commitment from everyone outside of the few rookies who are just happy to be up.

I just want to watch a team that is committed to putting their best on the ice game in and game out that just happens to win a game every so often. And maybe make the playoffs.

A team wasting away is not a team I want to watch. The Stars need to step back, take a deep ****ing breath, and come back out with motivation and a more cohesive team system that isn't "skate our opponents to death", because all it does is make them mentally exhausted in the third with a short bench.

Agreed, there's too much talent for it not to be a systematic of cultural issue. They've multiple times mentioned that all 5 guys on the ice are often times not on the same page. That's coaching and systems.

 

[Frozen Failure]

Agreed, there's too much talent for it not to be a systematic of cultural issue. They've multiple times mentioned that all 5 guys on the ice are often times not on the same page. That's coaching and systems.

If Jim Nill, and by proxy, Lindy Ruff can't figure out what the **** is wrong here, then they both should be fired. And management who can commit to managing should be brought in.

And the faster we jettison the older UFAs who have nothing to play for anymore, the better. Because. for example, if Cole wants to coast, we can probably ship him to Buffalo for not much.

Though, if Nill wants to make an example, he waives Jordie Benn.

And assigns him to the worst team in the AHL.

Take out the safest player and re-institute a rule of fear.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Jordie Benn on waivers?

Now that's wishful thinking.

 

[glovesave_35]

Statistically it usually is a hit-or-miss after round 1. It's good that Stars can find gems here and there after the first round but it looks like they picked a bunch of high floor-low ceiling type of players during the Nieuwendyk era all across the board. I also understand misfires are common too, but for a team that really had defensive woes staring in its face six years ago (and to this date) and to not have addressed it in a defense-heavy 1st round draft in 2010 especially when a juicy pear fell on its lap, has to be unpardonable.

Still too early to get into the Campbell pick because that could still end up being a good pick for us. Not really worth discussing now.

The bolded is basically 100% untrue. Campbell is actually a really good example of that. They felt he had Lundqvist upside and took the gamble. The vast majority of picks in the Nieuwendyk era could best be described as high ceiling riskier picks rather than low ceiling sure thing types, especially after the 1st round.

R. Smith
Chiasson
Stransky
Bystrom
Klingberg
Guptill
Molin
Ritchie
Winther
Troock
Sinistyn
Shore
Lindell

That is a long list of guys drafted based largely on top end potential rather than being safe picks.

 

[glovesave_35]

Daley's been good on the PP but he's not been great at even strength or defensively. Not as bad as say Jordie or Dillon, but he's not exactly been a rock back there. He's had his share of turnovers and bad pinches too. The advanced stats back this up too, his EV shot differential is pretty bad.

Does that represent a regression from his career numbers though? I'd also say it's pretty hard to suss out how much of that can be laid at Daley's feet when he's been playing with Goligoski all season until a few games ago.

The fact of the matter is when a team's collective D-corps is as bad as this one there are very rarely "rock solid" defensemen. I'm not saying Daley would be a monster if he were in a better situation, but I think most would agree that Daley would benefit from being on a team with a better D-corps and overall team defensive concept. He's a 2nd pair defenseman on shoe-in playoff teams and likely a 3rd pair guy on what we consider perennial Cup contenders.

What we're rolling with system-wise is ok for now given where we are in our rebuild/re-tool phase, but I hope this is not what we're trying to roll out there in a few years hoping to run other teams into the ground in the postseason.

 

[beepeearr]

Last year we looked fast, this year we just look scrambly, you can tell teams have figured out our zone entrys. Basically other teams have adapted to how to stop us, but we haven't adapted to how to counter yet.

 

[OttMorrow]

This team really looks and sounds defeated. You look at Benn's post-gam from the game against Minny, as well as Ruff's and Fids post-games' from last night...they look depressed, beyond frustrated. Jamie Benn looked like he was literally fighting back the tears with the "no excuses" comments following Minny. They all know that this next 5-game homestand is either going to make or break their season. That much is said by the the team. Good news, or bad news(I pick the latter) depending on how you choose to look at it, is that 3 of the 5 games are against basement teams(Carolina, Arizona, and Edmonton). This is it.

 

[Stargazer1111]

This team really looks and sounds defeated. You look at Benn's post-gam from the game against Minny, as well as Ruff's and Fids post-games' from last night...they look depressed, beyond frustrated. Jamie Benn looked like he was literally fighting back the tears with the "no excuses" comments following Minny. They all know that this next 5-game homestand is either going to make or break their season. That much is said by the the team. Good news, or bad news(I pick the latter) depending on how you choose to look at it, is that 3 of the 5 games are against basement teams(Carolina, Arizona, and Edmonton). This is it.

If that's the case, then Ruff was spot on with his comments on the team's mental fragility. That is more concerning than anything else.

 

[Klockis]

McDavid
???
Profit

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Still too early to get into the Campbell pick because that could still end up being a good pick for us. Not really worth discussing now.

It's been 4+ years since he was drafted. I'd say it makes some sense discussing him seeing how his minor league progress has been wanting. I can understand if he were still considered not ready for the NHL, but his AHL progress has to be better than what is evident.

The bolded is basically 100% untrue.Campbell is actually a really good example of that. They felt he had Lundqvist upside and took the gamble. The vast majority of picks in the Nieuwendyk era could best be described as high ceiling riskier picks rather than low ceiling sure thing types, especially after the 1st round.

R. Smith
Chiasson
Stransky
Bystrom
Klingberg
Guptill
Molin
Ritchie
Winther
Troock
Sinistyn
Shore
Lindell

That is a long list of guys drafted based largely on top end potential rather than being safe picks.

I readily agree on Campbell being the high-risk/high-ceiling prospect, but does that really apply to Chiasson, Smith, Ritchie, etc.? Not disagreeing with you, but I think I may need to read some more about them.

 

[OttMorrow]

If that's the case, then Ruff was spot on with his comments on the team's mental fragility. That is more concerning than anything else.

Benn's Postgame:

http://video.stars.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=672960&catid=1229

This is where Benn looks literally on the edge of tears.


Ruff's Postgame from last night:

http://video.stars.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=672960&catid=1229

 

[Frozen Failure]

Benn's Postgame:

http://video.stars.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=672960&catid=1229

Jeebs man.

Benn's frustrated at something. Do we know what it is? Nope. Should we speculate? No.

But, as someone who has felt the frustration bug for the past few months, and am not unaccustomed to it... he needs a change.

Depression is a manifestation of frustration. Frustration, is caused by a loss of being connected, being in control or having a purpose in life.

If the problem is related to hockey, it's Ruff's/management's job to help fix it. Because he's an adult who has been there and probably has seen it before. If it's off ice, then it's not something we need to be dealing with at all on here, and it's up to him and his support network to find a solution.

If he wants to express his frustration, he needs to go out there and just go on a physical ass kicking rampage for a week or two. And hopefully see at the end of his rampage, that he's feeling better.

The cuffs need to come off on the entire team and they need to express their frustrations together as one unit.

 

[glovesave_35]

It's been 4+ years since he was drafted. I'd say it makes some sense discussing him seeing how his minor league progress has been wanting. I can understand if he were still considered not ready for the NHL, but his AHL progress has to be better than what is evident.


I readily agree on Campbell being the high-risk/high-ceiling prospect, but does that really apply to Chiasson, Smith, Ritchie, etc.? Not disagreeing with you, but I think I may need to read some more about them.

Campbell was injured last year but when he was healthy he was fantastic. We'll see how things pan out this year and beyond. Generally, when grading drafts we wait 5 years and longer for goalies. Campbell is on pace to be a backup to Kari Lehtonen at age 23, that's not exactly a bad development spot to be in.

Smith was drafted with a 3rd round pick from a second tier junior league, which would be considered the opposite of safe. Chiasson was the safest of the bunch, but even he was a USHL 2nd round pick rather than one of the big CHL leagues. Ritchie was a boom or bust guy with a sick shot and release. I don't know what you want me to say exactly. You said that the Stars picked low ceiling players after the 1st round under Nieuwendyk. Nothing could be further from the truth. We routinely draft players out of lower level leagues with top end skill sets and hopefully put them on the path to success. That was true before Nieuwendyk, under him, and after him.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

Campbell was injured last year but when he was healthy he was fantastic. We'll see how things pan out this year and beyond. Generally, when grading drafts we wait 5 years and longer for goalies. Campbell is on pace to be a backup to Kari Lehtonen at age 23, that's not exactly a bad development spot to be in.

Well, injuries or rather, ability to resist injuries are part of a player's asset. Glennie is a bust due to a large reason that he couldn't stay healthy, wouldn't you say? I'd hope that the risk they took with Campbell is worth it and 'dthink 4 years post-draft, (going on 5th year) is not too early to start looking at his AHL progress with a discerning eye.

Smith was drafted with a 3rd round pick from a second tier junior league, which would be considered the opposite of safe. Chiasson was the safest of the bunch, but even he was a USHL 2nd round pick rather than one of the big CHL leagues. Ritchie was a boom or bust guy with a sick shot and release. I don't know what you want me to say exactly.

I didn't want you to say anything . I said I would do the research on their pre-draft years myself because I didn't exactly peg them as low floor-high ceiling type of guys.

Thanks for your input on those players anyway.

You said that the Stars picked low ceiling players after the 1st round under Nieuwendyk. Nothing could be further from the truth. We routinely draft players out of lower level leagues with top end skill sets and hopefully put them on the path to success. That was true before Nieuwendyk, under him, and after him.

I said they picked high floor-low ceiling players all across the board, and that means including round 1. I guess I will have to agree with you on the latter part.

 

[OttMorrow]

Benn's Postgame:

http://video.stars.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=672960&catid=1229

This is where Benn looks literally on the edge of tears.


Ruff's Postgame from last night:

http://video.stars.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=672960&catid=1229

How do I embed these videos vs. posting the link?

 

[Kiorei]

Well, if there was a year to get a good pick, this is it. Noah Hanifin would look good in a Dallas Stars Jersey. I just hope Nill can get Spezza to buy into next year and sign with us for a 4 year deal or something.

Out of curiosity, what is the best Defenseman we could get for Nichushkin?

 

[Frozen Failure]

Oh hey by the way, everyone should have a psychology lesson.

Right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2009/11/11/learned-helplessness/

I'd say the Stars could use a behavioral psychologist helping the team.

 

[StarsTx]

I kinda hope we move Spezza for a future 1b or 2c. Who knows, maybe we can improve the teams future and money whip him into coming back for 3 or 4 seasons in the offseason. With the team under achieving this year and not having any help on the 2nd line I don't know that getting him to resign before the trade deadline is possible and it's to risky to not get anything for him. I have wondered if the reason we keep putting him on the super line is to make him happy with his line mates in hopes of resigning him.

 

[Stargazer1111]

I really hope we dump Hemsky. I'm done with him.

 

[OttMorrow]

I really hope we dump Hemsky. I'm done with him.

My patience is wearing thin with him too. The money he is getting paid should be showing up in both points for the team and his personal stats. With him there is an expectation of production, not just to look good out there...which he often does while producing zero.

 

[StarsTx]

We could only get by with dumping Hemsky if he asks for it IMHO. Dallas isn't known as a premium place for free agent hockey players and Nil can't afford to hurt his reputation with the players by getting rid of a guy who just signed a multi year deal to play here. I also think 1 or 2 big games by Hemsky and he is right with every other player on the team not named Seguin stat wise, as poorly as he has started the year.

 

[Mr Misty]

I really hope we dump Hemsky. I'm done with him.

My patience is wearing thin with him too. The money he is getting paid should be showing up in both points for the team and his personal stats. With him there is an expectation of production, not just to look good out there...which he often does while producing zero.

This is incredibly short sighted. We have only 3 forwards who are playing well right now. Dumping Hemskey damages our reputation with future UFAs and would return pennies on the dollar.

 

[Dallasman]

I don't see any benefit in getting rid of Spezza as you need two good centers to be successful(case and point the Oilers and their lack of good centers). Spezza gives you that along with Seguin. We don't need to worry about that at all.

Start fixing the defence and the rest will come. Get rid of Jordie Benn for Christ sake! He is worse than terrible. He's embarrassing to see on the ice at times and I cringe when he's out there. Just awful. Connauton...not NHL worthy in my eyes either. Oleksiak will take some time but he has the potential to be a solid player. Klingberg as well. Goose, Daley, Klingberg and Oleksiak need to be there for sure. The rest we need to start finding guys who can fill out the rest of the D core. Not saying what we have in those four is great but that's what I'd keep on the roster for now.